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Lowering the Barriers to Group PvP

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  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    While people are suggesting that what you may have done years ago in Achaea should count for what you don't do today, I'd like to throw my name in the hat for Hashani of the Year. 
    SilasSyriAchimrst
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To my knowledge, nobody has been punished in Targossas for not defending, or for not doing anything else. The recognition from the leaders is that this is a game, and people should be free to do what they find enjoyable.

    Plus, this is My city. Of course I'm immune to any negative consequences for My actions. Bitch.

    BluefAntidasSyri
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Silas said:
    To my knowledge, nobody has been punished in Targossas for not defending, or for not doing anything else. The recognition from the leaders is that this is a game, and people should be free to do what they find enjoyable.

    Plus, this is My city. Of course I'm immune to any negative consequences for My actions. Bitch.
    A few have that I remember. but it's been awhile.



    Bluef said:
    While people are suggesting that what you may have done years ago in Achaea should count for what you don't do today, I'd like to throw my name in the hat for Hashani of the Year. 
    I agree honestly, I mean no one is here to debate that Silas is one of the greatest players to impact the game entirely if not the good side entirely. At least as of late since this game is pretty old now.

    On the other hand we're pretty off topic. With the Silas stuff.

  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And yet for his nobility, fans must endure this spectacle of insults and logical fallacies being tossed overboard as his argument takes on water. Abandon thread, indeed. 
  • SilasSilas Member Posts: 2,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean


    Oh, you.

    HerenicusBluef
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I guess if that's the best you can do :/ 
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 2015
    Jovolo said:
    Uhh, why would you consider bashing the same as questing? They're completely different, you just "interact" with denizens in order to achieve that.

    If you really dislike the idea that questing is part of PvE, arguing about that terminology is a pretty weak/unnecessary distractor from the main point.  So fine, let's just call it something else so we can dispense with the distractor! 

    So, instead, we'll call questing and bashing "Generated XP".  Generated XP is new XP that the player generates through questing and bashing that increases both the individual player's XP pool AND the game's overall XP pool. 

    This XP can be truly lost (disappears both from the player's pool, and the overall game pool) through deaths to NPCs and things like heartstop - or, it can be transferred to another player through PK deaths.  XP that is transferred to another player could be called "Transferred XP" - and really, it's still Generated XP because that is the only kind of XP that currently exists, but the concept that it can be, and is transferred (not lost!) to another player is central to the point I raised, which is that this arrangement is quite beneficial to at least some portion of our players (because bashing, the most efficient way of generating XP, is tedious and no one seems to like it very much).  So again.  Who is being "entitled" in this conversation?  

  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:

    (because bashing, the most efficient way of generating XP, is tedious and no one seems to like it very much)

    I like it quite a bit, actually. I find it relaxing.

    Granted, I have to be in the mood to do it, but when I am, I find it quite fun.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    AchimrstSaeva
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jules said:
    I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 
    Bashing is getting a total over hall already.

    Nim
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caladbolg said:
    Jules said:
    I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 
    Bashing is getting a total over hall already.
    Don't say things like this. I am afraid they're going to kill the one thing I still enjoy about Achaea *weep*
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean

    The planned bashing overhaul has been covered in this thread already (it's also been covered in other threads).  The takeaway from those conversations is this:  They're going to try to make it a bit more tolerable, but Achaea isn't going to try to compete with games that really, really try to make bashing fun. 

    There's a real chance the bashing overhaul could accidentally make things more tedious and/or less efficient, both of which would be steps in the wrong direction.  Hopefully things would get fixed if that happened, but it could take awhile to recognize, and then remedy. 

    Even if it were quite a bit of fun, there's the time management issue that more of our players seem to have first hand experience of now.  So bashing would need to be as fun for people who like to PK as it is for people who like bashing.  In other words, for those people, it would ideally simulate PK itself, and perhaps even be more fun to play against than other players in many cases - especially if it were smart enough to take your own combat ability into account.  It would be more like fighting a player who's just a bit better than you are - instead of fighting someone who is so much better than you are you're just lost.  Some players would still just prefer engaging with other players, too.  But yeah, that's not Achaea's niche, and it's not happening.  


    In short - it doesn't sound like we're ever going to have a system where people who suffer PK deaths are going to say "Oh man, I get to go bash now!" and the guys who killed them are going to say "well, that was fun, and I don't really need to bash now that we killed those noobs and I'm up a couple hours' worth of bashing thanks to their sweet, sweet textpee, but I just like bashing so much"!  So with that in mind, I'd like to see PK generate its own form of XP that gives some sort of small (but not completely meaningless) buff, while my bashing/questing XP would be protected from transfer to other players through PK deaths.  Instead, I would gain and lose PK XP. 


  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Fuck it, im about to lose my level over multi-people ganks, remove exp when dying to more than 1 person at minimum or remove it from pk entirely. Don't even care if I get exp from killin folks anymore :(

  • OuraniaOurania The Garden of the GodsMember Posts: 508 Immortal
    As a side note (I've really not been keeping up with this thread), any org that approaches me for Patron are informed that Hashan comes first, and should anything tip the balance causing issues between org and Hashan, then I would side with Hashan. They all know this and are fine with it as far as I know. My order members are allowed to be from anywhere bar Targ and Mhaldor. I often get asked to speak with Eleusis about the moon and nature, and they are always informed I am pro progress and would chop a tree down if required, but not maliciously. I am on the 'needs permission' list in Cyrene, for what ever that means.

    ShirszaeJules
  • PrythePrythe Member Posts: 472 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I am going to apologize for not reading the entire thread before popping into this box. It struck me as I read this, well, I was reminded, in other games one does not gain experience from Hunting/Killing some thing/person X amount of "levels" below them.

    That couldn't work the same here in Achaea because Level =/= stronger/faster/better but there may be some way to create a function where it is so less worth it for a Jhui (still miss you!) to kill a just-out-of-novicehood that the battles might be arranged less like a melee and more like Arena Duels, where people oppose those who are closer in ability/rank/skill to them, as that is the most efficient way to gain experience (plaudits, awards, something), building up to a champion vs champion situation.

    Very random thought.

    Oh, and did I mention UCLA!

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    Remove XP loss from PVP completely, boost PVP XP gain - quadruple XP loss from dying to denizen, halve XP gain from bashing. Now everyone will want to/have to PVP.

    Solution Grand Master Seftin has spoken.
  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Might want to crimp the amount of XP gained from repeats, but something along these lines would probably get more people into the business.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,831 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you make adventurers drop gold when you kill them, I'd be up for that, otherwise I'd still rather spend my login time bashing since I do that for gold and not xp :/
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Basically, any player who's had a taste of what it's like to be able to take part in PvP without other players being able to take your bashing XP away from you just won't tolerate the Achaean system.  They just won't.  Do with that what you will. 
    Aedin
  • KhairtKhairt Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 2015
    How can we feel like winners if the bads we just rekt aren't punished for being nubs, @Jules? God, I just don't understand why you don't get how experience is the only thing that makes death meaningful, and that also no one should care about losing it. 


    HerenicusJulesNakariNim
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