Lowering the Barriers to Group PvP

Herenicus

And yet for his nobility, fans must endure this spectacle of insults and logical fallacies being tossed overboard as his argument takes on water. Abandon thread, indeed. 

Silas

Oh, you.

Herenicus

I guess if that's the best you can do  

Jules

Jovolo said:

Uhh, why would you consider bashing the same as questing? They're completely different, you just "interact" with denizens in order to achieve that.

If you really dislike the idea that questing is part of PvE, arguing about that terminology is a pretty weak/unnecessary distractor from the main point.  So fine, let's just call it something else so we can dispense with the distractor! 

So, instead, we'll call questing and bashing "Generated XP".  Generated XP is new XP that the player generates through questing and bashing that increases both the individual player's XP pool AND the game's overall XP pool. 

This XP can be truly lost (disappears both from the player's pool, and the overall game pool) through deaths to NPCs and things like heartstop - or, it can be transferred to another player through PK deaths.  XP that is transferred to another player could be called "Transferred XP" - and really, it's still Generated XP because that is the only kind of XP that currently exists, but the concept that it can be, and is transferred (not lost!) to another player is central to the point I raised, which is that this arrangement is quite beneficial to at least some portion of our players (because bashing, the most efficient way of generating XP, is tedious and no one seems to like it very much).  So again.  Who is being "entitled" in this conversation?  

Sarathai

Jules said:

(because bashing, the most efficient way of generating XP, is tedious and no one seems to like it very much)

I like it quite a bit, actually. I find it relaxing.

Granted, I have to be in the mood to do it, but when I am, I find it quite fun.

Jules

I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 

Caladbolg

Jules said:

I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 

Bashing is getting a total over hall already.

Bluef

Caladbolg said:

Jules said:

I doubt they'll ever get rid of bashing itself, so I don't think you'll ever have to worry about not being able to bash.  Or something.  I did find it to be relaxing when I was a pretty new player, too, yes.  I guess it stays that way to some degree for some people. 

Bashing is getting a total over hall already.

Don't say things like this. I am afraid they're going to kill the one thing I still enjoy about Achaea *weep*

Jules

The planned bashing overhaul has been covered in this thread already (it's also been covered in other threads).  The takeaway from those conversations is this:  They're going to try to make it a bit more tolerable, but Achaea isn't going to try to compete with games that really, really try to make bashing fun. 

There's a real chance the bashing overhaul could accidentally make things more tedious and/or less efficient, both of which would be steps in the wrong direction.  Hopefully things would get fixed if that happened, but it could take awhile to recognize, and then remedy. 

Even if it were quite a bit of fun, there's the time management issue that more of our players seem to have first hand experience of now.  So bashing would need to be as fun for people who like to PK as it is for people who like bashing.  In other words, for those people, it would ideally simulate PK itself, and perhaps even be more fun to play against than other players in many cases - especially if it were smart enough to take your own combat ability into account.  It would be more like fighting a player who's just a bit better than you are - instead of fighting someone who is so much better than you are you're just lost.  Some players would still just prefer engaging with other players, too.  But yeah, that's not Achaea's niche, and it's not happening.  

In short - it doesn't sound like we're ever going to have a system where people who suffer PK deaths are going to say "Oh man, I get to go bash now!" and the guys who killed them are going to say "well, that was fun, and I don't really need to bash now that we killed those noobs and I'm up a couple hours' worth of bashing thanks to their sweet, sweet textpee, but I just like bashing so much"!  So with that in mind, I'd like to see PK generate its own form of XP that gives some sort of small (but not completely meaningless) buff, while my bashing/questing XP would be protected from transfer to other players through PK deaths.  Instead, I would gain and lose PK XP. 

Caladbolg

Fuck it, im about to lose my level over multi-people ganks, remove exp when dying to more than 1 person at minimum or remove it from pk entirely. Don't even care if I get exp from killin folks anymore

Ourania

As a side note (I've really not been keeping up with this thread), any org that approaches me for Patron are informed that Hashan comes first, and should anything tip the balance causing issues between org and Hashan, then I would side with Hashan. They all know this and are fine with it as far as I know. My order members are allowed to be from anywhere bar Targ and Mhaldor. I often get asked to speak with Eleusis about the moon and nature, and they are always informed I am pro progress and would chop a tree down if required, but not maliciously. I am on the 'needs permission' list in Cyrene, for what ever that means.

Prythe

I am going to apologize for not reading the entire thread before popping into this box. It struck me as I read this, well, I was reminded, in other games one does not gain experience from Hunting/Killing some thing/person X amount of "levels" below them.

That couldn't work the same here in Achaea because Level =/= stronger/faster/better but there may be some way to create a function where it is so less worth it for a Jhui (still miss you!) to kill a just-out-of-novicehood that the battles might be arranged less like a melee and more like Arena Duels, where people oppose those who are closer in ability/rank/skill to them, as that is the most efficient way to gain experience (plaudits, awards, something), building up to a champion vs champion situation.

Very random thought.

Oh, and did I mention UCLA!

Seftin

Remove XP loss from PVP completely, boost PVP XP gain - quadruple XP loss from dying to denizen, halve XP gain from bashing. Now everyone will want to/have to PVP.

Solution Grand Master Seftin has spoken.

Herenicus

Might want to crimp the amount of XP gained from repeats, but something along these lines would probably get more people into the business.

Kyrra

If you make adventurers drop gold when you kill them, I'd be up for that, otherwise I'd still rather spend my login time bashing since I do that for gold and not xp

Jules

Basically, any player who's had a taste of what it's like to be able to take part in PvP without other players being able to take your bashing XP away from you just won't tolerate the Achaean system.  They just won't.  Do with that what you will. 

Khairt

How can we feel like winners if the bads we just rekt aren't punished for being nubs, @Jules? God, I just don't understand why you don't get how experience is the only thing that makes death meaningful, and that also no one should care about losing it.