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Patronage System

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  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Diminishing active divine would seem to mean that there are less people to invest time in overseeing, assisting and teaching Celani, so essentially every time we lose a few active divine, it becomes more difficult for continuing divine volunteers to train replacements. This is understandable and sadly seems to be a repeating pattern in Achaea. Rather than going through lulls where there aren't people trained to handle patron responsibilities though, it would still seem to make sense to create a system whereby requests for organizations are meted through experienced, senior-level divine volunteers, who possess an in-depth knowledge of the game and its organizations as a whole and can handle requests for those organizations that are lacking an active patron. It would also seem to make sense that new Celani are provided with options for their potential divine roles that fill existing gaps in roleplay needs, if that isn't already the case. 
  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,374 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Out of curiousity, When is the next Celani call?
    Herenicus
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2015
    I think there is something to be said for the problem of strongly-aligned orgs lacking patrons (I remember those dark (light?) days of Mhaldor as well as anyone). And I can see having a sort of inbox for requests in the event that such an org doesn't have a patron for a while (maybe just an inbox for patron requests to "no patron") with the understanding that things in the bin are very low priority. The idea being not so much to get those things fixed as to provide a sort of placebo so players don't feel quite so helpless, even if they actually remain pretty much just as helpless in reality. And maybe someone can skim the list every few months and see if one or two things on it really are low-impact enough that they don't need the usual level of consideration with respect to org history and the like.

    That said, maybe that's a bad idea. I have no idea how any of this works and I think the degree of entitlement in a lot of responses in this thread is staggering.

    It amazes me how many people continue to try to mansplain (godsplain?) to the admin how godhood works - the dynamics of recruiting, how the workload apparently "must be", what "just makes sense", etc.
    Sarapis
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited January 2015
    Tahquil said:
    Out of curiousity, When is the next Celani call?
    Probably not for a couple months still. The last one was in mid-Sep.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Is that why there are no more ascensions? Or is that a separate story? #AchaeaHistoryLesson

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    HerenicusTharvisMelodieTrilliana
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    I have no desire to be a Celani, but I loved being a Chronicler when the program was in place. Mortal building and Guiding was also something I enjoyed a lot. I see fewer of these calls going out though than when I started playing Achaea. There are many players who could probably do a lot of good behind the scenes in a non-divine role.

    Edit: I think many Gods still 'reveal' themselves to players and much criticism goes on in OOC clans about metagaming as a result of it. If I were to do a SWOT analysis of Achaea, I'd list that among its weaknesses. I realize that doesn't respond to the full comment about Gods who logged in, played around, and then QQed but I do think it has either become a popular reason for people to respond to Celani calls (or it's perceived as being one, which is just as bad). 
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited January 2015
    Shirszae said:
    Is that why there are no more ascensions? Or is that a separate story? #AchaeaHistoryLesson
    Yep, although neither of the cases I brought up above were Ascensions.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,084 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I still kind of want to ascend one day, though. :(
               My wing tips waltz across naive
                     Wood floors they creak
                  Innocently down the stairs

                          Drag melody
    My percussive feet serve cobweb headaches as a
              Matching set of marching clocks
                The slumbering apparitions
              That they've come to wake up
    Ast
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,295 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Sarapis said:
    Zii said:
    The whole "year of slave labor" thing is off-putting when you make the Celani calls.

    Jus sayin
    Yeah, sucks that when you want to be a pilot you have to actually train at it first. Would be way better to just toss them a manual, give them a week to read it, and then stick them in the pilot's seat. You guys would just love the results of that.
    I'll also add that we used to just let promising people go straight to God, but implemented the Celani program after two successive people became Gods, revealed themselves to players, played with all the commands, and then promptly stopped logging in a couple days later, having satisfied their curiosity.
    That was also well over 10 years ago, and there was a tendency to pick not so good people as divine then.

    There were also bad choices made to who SHOULDN'T be divine/celani back then, too. Remember the "we'll never let someone under 18 be a celani/divine again" rule? (The person it was made for runs Aetolia now).

    BluefValaria
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited January 2015
    Cooper said:
    Sarapis said:
    Sarapis said:
    Zii said:
    The whole "year of slave labor" thing is off-putting when you make the Celani calls.

    Jus sayin
    Yeah, sucks that when you want to be a pilot you have to actually train at it first. Would be way better to just toss them a manual, give them a week to read it, and then stick them in the pilot's seat. You guys would just love the results of that.
    I'll also add that we used to just let promising people go straight to God, but implemented the Celani program after two successive people became Gods, revealed themselves to players, played with all the commands, and then promptly stopped logging in a couple days later, having satisfied their curiosity.
    That was also well over 10 years ago, and there was a tendency to pick not so good people as divine then.

    There were also bad choices made to who SHOULDN'T be divine/celani back then, too. Remember the "we'll never let someone under 18 be a celani/divine again" rule? (The person it was made for runs Aetolia now).
    People haven't become a different species just because 10 years has passed! There is zero reason to believe the result would be any different today.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Bluef said:
     I loved being a Chronicler when the program was in place
    You're welcome and encouraged to continue! Keeping the wiki updated with lore, and even including sections with player-written dramatizations of quests, events, etc is all awesome and appreciated.
    AchimrstTael
  • BronislavBronislav ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean MarylandMember Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sometimes, I ponder the whole Celani route. It'd certainly keep me out of trouble, and the aspects of adding and crafting to the world and being one of the driving forces that inspire other players to kick ass are really appealing, even if it's behind the scenes.

    But then I remember that I enjoy being a player. And I like being cocky. And I like my character having a family. And I like fighting, and sailing, and making oodles of profit. And being a more aggressive dynamic for Cyrene (for better and/or worse!).

    :\



    RenoirRangor
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Bluef said:
     I loved being a Chronicler when the program was in place
    You're welcome and encouraged to continue! Keeping the wiki updated with lore, and even including sections with player-written dramatizations of quests, events, etc is all awesome and appreciated.
    Yeah that Wiki is a little weird right now, get on it @Bluef I expect a full report in the morning :P
    Bluef
  • RenoirRenoir ✭✭ - Stalwart Member Posts: 30 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Bronislav said:
    Sometimes, I ponder the whole Celani route. It'd certainly keep me out of trouble, and the aspects of adding and crafting to the world and being one of the driving forces that inspire other players to kick ass are really appealing, even if it's behind the scenes.

    But then I remember that I enjoy being a player. And I like being cocky. And I like my character having a family. And I like fighting, and sailing, and making oodles of profit. And being a more aggressive dynamic for Cyrene (for better and/or worse!).

    :\
    This is also how I feel from time to time. I enjoy Renoir far too much to try it, and would rather spend a few more decades, maybe even centuries, before I give Her up and consider ascending to god-hood. Though, if the celani route doesn't work out, can the person pick back up their characters where they last fell asleep?
    Bronislav
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think one of the things that made the Achaean wiki so much fun to update was the Chroniclers clan. Yes, it could be a bit nitpicky at times and we had debates over things, but it made the wiki better overall and added this sense of community and accomplishment to what we were trying to build that I don't feel anymore through individually-inspired page edits, unfortunately. Plus, Nissa called upon us for all kinds of things with the Theran Athenaeum. It was really fun. 
    Madelyne
  • ValariaValaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    Sarapis said:
    Zii said:
    The whole "year of slave labor" thing is off-putting when you make the Celani calls.

    Jus sayin
    Yeah, sucks that when you want to be a pilot you have to actually train at it first. Would be way better to just toss them a manual, give them a week to read it, and then stick them in the pilot's seat. You guys would just love the results of that.
    I don't mind being as a slave, i just like this game.

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    You're also not a slave as a Celani. Slaves can't quit or choose what they want to work on. ;)
    ShirszaeValaria
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,796 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    You're also not a slave as a Celani. Slaves can't quit or choose what they want to work on. ;)
    Is it 100% impossible to become Celani and keep your mortal? I understand how bad it could burn you doing a trial run, but if the person in question was barred from working on anything relating directly to them and signed an NDA that says if you talk about Fight Club you're permashrubbed, no appeals, it seems like it could work. You'd need someone with Saltaernebrous levels of character separation, but you could do it.

  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    It is 100% impossible and would not work. 
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Would I be refunded all the money I put into achaea on becoming a celani? :dizzy_face: 
    image
    TharvisValariaAtalkez
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Sena said:
    I don't see any reason you couldn't have a player-run clan for updating/improving the wiki.


    That's an idea. I'm not sure it's a great investment to take 500k IC to try to re-create something the Garden didn't want to throw their support toward anymore. Just saying.

    But..yeah. I would totally be on board with trying to do it if enough Chroniclers (new and old) were still interested in participating - @Madelyne‌ ;
    @Halos, etc.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    edited January 2015
    What makes you think we're not supportive of it? If there was a credible effort made by a group of committed and enthusiastic people of course we'd support it.

    However, last time forum-goers got excited in updating the wiki (in this case adding a lot more combat info to it than there's now) things didn't get very far at all and came to a standstill, so I'm not just going to open up a clan for it without seeing that there's going to be some sustained interest.
    Bluef
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    What makes you think we're not supportive of it? If there was a credible effort made by a group of committed and enthusiastic people of course we'd support it.

    However, last time forum-goers got excited in updating the wiki (in this case adding a lot more combat info to it than there's now) things didn't get very far at all and came to a standstill, so I'm not just going to open up a clan for it without seeing that there's going to be some sustained interest.
    Oooh, well I'll get on it then! I'll speak to Halos and whoever else routinely updates the wiki. I really loved the Chroniclers!
    SarapisValaria
  • ValariaValaria ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarapis said:
    What makes you think we're not supportive of it? If there was a credible effort made by a group of committed and enthusiastic people of course we'd support it.

    However, last time forum-goers got excited in updating the wiki (in this case adding a lot more combat info to it than there's now) things didn't get very far at all and came to a standstill, so I'm not just going to open up a clan for it without seeing that there's going to be some sustained interest.
    i have noticed in the effort of making blademaster skillset more detailed than other. I think i would put in effort for the monks one(since im a monk now.) so i will the info there. I can edit whatever I want over there...? Of course, nothing silly like add some extremely detailed about how awesome the ponies are!

    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
    Sarapis
  • ErhonErhon ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 116 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    ... I just remember how often I got into fights with @Delphinus on the chronicler clan and it often degenerated to the point where @Madelyne had to step in and vote one way or another. (Usually with me cause Delph was being a dork!)
    BluefBlujixapug
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I can say with pretty much 100% certainty that we are all dorks here.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    TaelAchimrstMannimarKraal
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,263 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Denial is a terrible thing, @Atalkez, @Silas

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    TaelSarapisTharvisAchimrst
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