Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 6.2K All Categories
- 3.1K Everything Achaea
- 1.5K North of Thera
- 26 Archives of the Terraformer
- 257 The Matsuhama Arena
- 885 The Golden Dais of Creation
- 299 The Scarlattan Theatre
- 149 The Blank Canvas
- 2K Getting Help
- 412 General Questions
- 258 Quick Class Questions
- 1.3K Tech Support
- 313 Client Help
- 486 Curing Systems and Scripts
- 841 Off-Topic
- 255 The Wander Inn
- 586 The Universal Membrane
- 298 Class Discussions
- 298 Individual Class Sections
- 20 Alchemist
- 9 Apostate
- 30 Blademaster
- 9 Depthswalker
- 14 Druid
- 4 Infernal
- 20 Jester
- 19 Magi
- 34 Monk
- 11 Occultist
- 8 Paladin
- 7 Priest
- 29 Runewarden
- 18 Sentinel
- 26 Serpent
- 20 Shaman
- 9 Sylvan
Comments
2H's leg frack movement block is a bit extreme at the moment, though, which is my only problem with it. In the testing I've done, one fracture is 16% block chance, 2 is 32%, 3 is 42%, 4 is 60%, and at 7, it's literally a 100%. This is before Isaz/Piety/Ghands is factored in, which means that even 1 frack is a 59% block rate, and 4 is effectively 100%. That's absurd, and basically means that you have to kill a 2H'er in 20-30 seconds, (because that's about how long it takes to build up to 4 leg fracks) or you have to spend the entire fight running constantly to prevent more than 2 leg fracks from building up, because once you have 2, your chances of escape are effectively zero, and they can take you all the way to 7 if they want.
The only way to survive momentum classes is to be able to escape before you reach a critical threshold, but with 2H, you can't escape long before that threshold arrives. 4 fracks is when you can be devastated, but odds of escape with even 1 fracture+Isaz/Piety/Ghands are slim, so there's just not much you can do. Even if you Tumble out, (through walls, into nairat, w/e) those fracks are still there so you can't put distance between you and the 2H'er, and you're not going to cure more than 1 before he follows you and picks up where he left off. Only Evade can really handle it.
If tendon blocks were halved, they would still be scary, but you would be able to run at 3 and have a decent chance of living. (3 fracks + Isaz/Piety/Ghands would still be a 50% block rate, which is still crazy, but that's on par with Alchemist block, at least.) Once that gets adjusted, I'll like 2H. It's a powerful class with unique mechanics that give it interesting approaches that are inarguably effective.
But all in all, leg fracs are devistating ( no pun intended) for those who cant cure them effectively.
- Flying is blocked by tendons, just like movement and mountjump. Of all my escape options, flying is the best, but it's still essentially impossible with 2+ fractures.
- Timing Shield with Rebounding delays you for exactly 1.9 seconds, and can only be done every 8.5 seconds, and only if I'm on-EQ for the moment the Rebound comes up. That's a lot of "ifs", and a 2 second delay isn't going to turn the tide of a fight unless sip balance is recovered during that particular 2 seconds, and I only needed to lose 1 fracture to avoid a death. Let's just say those odds are slim.
- I could Restore, but even Applying/Restoring on loop only cures 2 fractures every 3.7 seconds, while Precision gives 2 every 3.6. At best, this just delays the you, doesn't beat you. It also stops all my offense to do it, and I stand there eating your damage until I die or start sipping instead of applying, at which point you own me.
Now, none of that is really a problem, momentum-based classes are *supposed* to be unstoppable if you stay in their room, that's the idea. The counter to momentum-based classes is being able to escape and reset the fight if you do so before you reach critical mass. (I.E. When you have when you have 4-5 tempers not 7, or when you have 2-3 leg fracks, not 4) The problem with 2H is, like I said, the fact that you can't escape and can't reset the fight, even if you try before you reach that critical point. 2+ leg fracks is currently a 66%+ block rate when combined with class skills, and 4 is 99%, so effectively impossible. Tumbling out gets me out of the room, but I still have all those leg fracks in the next room, so I can't run, and you just need to follow and pick up where you left off.I played 2H. Yes, there were "a few folks" that could keep me at bay. They were pro afflicters where I got extra unlucky with clumsiness, folks with evade, or folks who could outdamage me in 20-30 seconds, since 2H can't stop its momentum to play defense. Everyone else just kinda fell over, even fighters I respect, and even when I was being lazy and using half-cocked tactics like just hammering legs on repeat. Dragons or omni-artefacted folks could hold out longer, just because they can ignore the damage for longer, but even they go down simply because Precision outpaces curing even when they're applying non-stop, and eventually even they hit their sip health thresholds, and by then they can't get away to catch their breath.
I'm not saying 2H is unbeatable, I'm saying that the block rate makes it "unreasonably difficult" (I'll avoid "impossible") to recover once they do start building up.
Oh, I forgot everyone else doesn't have blight. My bad.
To add to the discussion:
Hammering just legs is not going to get 2h anywhere. It'll get them one DSB that will not kill anyone, because it should be pretty damn difficult for them to get 6 fractures for the level 3 break with health apply curing 2 fractures at 6+ and tree also helping. (You forgot to add tree into the equation).
If they spread out their attacks to other limbs, in order to actually get somewhere it gives you more of a chance to reset the fight.
But yeah, fracture movement blocking is still silly.
Restore should cure two fractures at 6+, maybe even tree.
Discuss.
However it is also bugged if you have a level 2 artefact hammer or higher. If you focus speed, you regain balance before you regain battlefury sometimes, leading to screw-ups on your combos.
I bugged this ages ago but to date not even a response.
Also, if you have a level 3 sword, regular hammer speed is not worth using. If you have two level 3s then it becomes advantageous again.
Battlefury is independent of weapon speed but level 2+ hammer with speed focus is too fast, so you regain balance before you regain battlefury about 20% of the time, meaning if you chase balance to hit as quickly as possible, your next hit will have no focus, which is a waste. You could work around it to some degree if Battlefury had its own Class Balance Queue, but currently it does not and I have not heard if they even acknowledge it as a bug.
I'd love level 3 artie hammer and have it sync to BF balance. Although if BF balance got sped up I could see potential for it buffing 2h by allowing continuation and recovery more often in the process.
Recovery does not need battlefury, you can use it at any time if you are off balance from a Weaponmastery attack.
@tecton - this supposed to happen?
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
Making Upset independent of BF might work but being able to prone anyone with a broken leg at any time might be OP (might not be that OP considering they have to have at least a shriveled leg) Feel free to discuss.
Eat like a caveman, train like a beast. Champions are not born, they are made.
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
I've seen very few people using 2h in combat which I get because why would you not use SnB. But those I have seen using 2h have all been heavily artied which seems to remove the necessity of clever play against lower health targets (IE me).
So I guess I'm just wondering if there are other 2h users out there without a level 2+ sword and if so, what have they found most effective? Every person seems to have a different story on the best use of speed vs precision and the best action to take when breaking a leg (overhand or brain). And what is people's experience with prep fitting into all this. I've been having mild success with prepping torso for a dsb kill but I tend to struggle to get targets over 2 fractures on more than one limb.
(Possibly because I refuse to use hugalaz on my weapons because rng exploding someone to death isn't very fun)
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
When an opponent has low-to-mid health, Braining on a leg break can instantly put them below their sip threshold, which means one quick Brain and then looping Speed can quickly put you on the path to a kill. High-health opponents aren't as vulnerable to Brain, so a Precision Overhand buys you 12 seconds of head applies that lets you stick other fracks in the meantime. When going for fracks on multiple limbs, just have to respect their priorities like any other. If they cure legs>torso, you can use leg fracks to bury torso fracks, you just have to alternate hits or work out the timing to see when you need to Precision vs Speed to stick the fracks you want most.
Like other momentum classes, 2H will just suffer against classes that can hinder well or escape easily. Unlike other momentum classes, 2H suffers badly from clumsiness, which makes it much more hinderable than those other momentum-based classes. When you say you have trouble sticking fracks on people, are you talking about classes like Serpent, Alchemist, Apostate, Bard? Because those are particularly rough on 2H all around. And of course high-health targets and/or SoA owners will be able to shrug off your damage, thereby letting them cure fracks, so these pose tough obstacles for 2H in general as well.
Not using Hugalaz runeblades is a pretty sizeable disadvantage for a Runewarden. Remember that Infernals and Paladins get Deathaura/Demons on top of their falcon as passive damage to press the damage pressure, plus better movement hindrance with Gravehands/Piety to keep opponents for that passive damage to work. For Runewardens, Isaz is not as good and you don't have extra passive damage, instead you have Hugalaz, it just comes in big, random chunks instead of small, constant ticks. Not using it might be "sporting" when fighting mid-health opponents, but you're handicapping yourself kinda hard there.
Now that Fly bypasses tendons, you can Tentacle/Arc folks who don't know to keep flying, but someone looping Fly it will generally stall you. Against those folks, try to rely heavier on Isaz more to stop them from getting out, and when they do manage to, following them with Fly/Engage is likely more effective if you can stay on them. (Frickin' falcon trick)
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
ORDER FALCON FOLLOW ignores all those restrictions, but you actually have to be in the same room with the target to do that, and when a falcon is simply following you, you can LOSE it normally, or lose it with Tumble/Leap/Evade/etc, so it has tradeoffs.