Two-hander Discussion

Anedhel

2h has its place in groups!

Hitting arms is good, relapsing lethargy is ALWAYS a good thing. If you have a few people doing affs with you, Paladins can also stick confusion with a focus aff (arc), which means you can slow down EQ -and- balance actions on a target.

Carve/Splinter are straight up goofy, doing full damage while breaking rebounding/shield or getting rid of both at <2s is nuts.

I do think other specs are better (or at least more interesting) in groups, but every spec has something horrible they can do to you. Hit ribs to stick sensi and purity/arc after a few hits for Infernal/Paladin is crazy hurty, and a thurisaz stack with basically anything if you're a runie'll drop anyone more or less squishy (specially since in group combat spam, you can miss thurisaz coming your way).

Aerek

@Keorin Theoretically, advanced scripting to could make Isaz -almost- as good as Gravehands/Piety, but that would only be true for our script kiddies. For the masses, if you're keeping up Engage, I can use that against you by trying to leave before your attacks, and your auto-engage will stop you from attacking me. If you're not keeping up Engage reflexively, I can get out after failing once. A dedicated coder could try to make sure that they auto-engaged if they had 2+ seconds off-balance, or wait and Engage after the attack if not, but there would still be chances for that to foul up, or small windows where you could escape scot-free, so Isaz is still slightly worse than GH/Piety in that case, and much worse for anyone who couldn't/didn't set that up. 2H and DWB could probably get away with just using Engage on every attack, but DSL and S&B have faster balances than Engage, so can't do that. They have to be careful and pick when to Engage so it won't hurt them. (Unless they have a Diadem)

This is fine, though, because I think Runewarden with a straight Gravehands/Piety equivalent would be OP. The only reason they needed Isaz (Other than 2H, now) is to prevent immediate fleeing on non-leg breaks that prevented lethal DSBs. Hugalaz or Pithakhan shenanigans in actual Piety would be way too strong.

Edit: There's also the years-old Engage bug that makes it randomly drop for no reason at times. That's another reason Isaz isn't as good!

Exelethril

Isaz also has the added advantage of being able to prone people, though the proc rate sucks. For those moments that someone prioritizes asthma over paralysis (aka when you've stuck asthma and have started moving into slickness/paralysis then they switch prio to asthma to smoke) and it procs, it's a reliable way to get around parry and keep someone prone.

If some dude, for some reason, has asthma > paralysis all the time, SnB is king for keeping those people prone with Isaz + Shieldstrike low with 4 ferocity.

Borran

Want a new knight class so I can play with all the weapon specs. Until then,  I'll just try to remember how much I hate rebounding and sketching runes to ensure my 5th class slot stays vacant.

Two Hander does look like Hella fun though.  Hey, sip health or cure afflictions. The choice is yours,  but you're dead either way. 

Dunn

Fought 2v10+ with Eleusis last night. Me in 2h, Jhui monk. I cannot overstate how much fucking work deflect does vs LoS heavy groups. Also, brain actually does fairly well if you have someone else capitalizing on prone burst. Was the first time I made 2h work in a group setting and damn it felt good. 

Cynlael

And then the wisen up, and start throwing lightning at you instead of arrows.

Dunn

I finally bit the bullet and transd augmentation so I got my resists up!

Still hurts like crazy, but easy enough to just wing/fly. Was a really fun hour or so of fighting. 

Jhui

Daeir said:

You should dump the shit out of those 2vX logs. I love reading stuff like that.

I'm normally pretty secretive about sharing these kinda logs, but i'll oblige the public this once.  Hopefully people can see how fun group combat can be.  This was @Dunn 's first time 2H in group, so we were just seeing if we could make it work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/orh6uwg0z1t5foe/dunn jhui v eleusis.html?dl=0

edit: for reference we both had veils off for it too

Aesi

That's pretty cool, thanks for the share.

Anedhel

Brain looks sexy as hell :O 

It should also have its own deathsight, for sure. Something about pulling a Gallagher on a poor, unsuspecting punk. 

Cynlael

Jhui said:

Daeir said:

You should dump the shit out of those 2vX logs. I love reading stuff like that.

I'm normally pretty secretive about sharing these kinda logs, but i'll oblige the public this once.  Hopefully people can see how fun group combat can be.  This was @Dunn 's first time 2H in group, so we were just seeing if we could make it work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/orh6uwg0z1t5foe/dunn jhui v eleusis.html?dl=0

edit: for reference we both had veils off for it too

6134(78%), 1783(25%), 19299, 35595 x|ckdb Rocknar 59TNVDragon
You have no soul.
6134(78%), 1783(25%), 19299, 35595 x|ckdb Rocknar 59TNVDragon

I knew it.

Szanthax

that was a lot of work to read the super secret....  stuff...

Jovolo

You stole Tanris' "Balance ON" thing!

Or did he steal it from you...

Dunn

If brain had a custom death sight likening the victims head to a melon, I would be sooooooo happy. 

Antonius

File an IDEA. If it's anything like the Engage deathsight, it will get implemented six months later, not actually work, then require four separate bugs (one of which will be marked as fixed) to actually get fixed.

Dunn

I also kinda wish brain did more AXK level damage. Just make it require a broken leg And prone instead of just prone. In that log I was just leaning on upset/brain when I saw a leg apply because I knew we weren't using any epseth and it would be resto apps. Does decent damage, but gets scaled down hard vs armor, which is unfortunate. 

Then again maybe we don't want another prone burst for groups. 

Jhui

Jovolo said:

You stole Tanris' "Balance ON" thing!

Or did he steal it from you...

Neither! I have my own system that is object oriented in lua so my balance classes all echo that with the balance name before the ON . I'd assume he just went with whatever echo sounds the fastest through a screen reader 

Dunn

I'm pretty sure his reader just said "lol you just told Dunn to travel to you on 30 guards north of fish street"

Mizik

Yeah Jhui stole that from Tanris too.

God damn it.

Aerek

Dunn said:

I also kinda wish brain did more AXK level damage. Just make it require a broken leg And prone instead of just prone. In that log I was just leaning on upset/brain when I saw a leg apply because I knew we weren't using any epseth and it would be resto apps. Does decent damage, but gets scaled down hard vs armor, which is unfortunate. 

Then again maybe we don't want another prone burst for groups. 

Think the problem there is that 2H damage can already be retarded in 1v1. If Brain was any better, no one unartefacted would be able to survive that.

Armali

If brain did old AXK level damage, I have no idea how a 2H would ever lose any fight ever.

Mizik

Aerek said:

Dunn said:

I also kinda wish brain did more AXK level damage. Just make it require a broken leg And prone instead of just prone. In that log I was just leaning on upset/brain when I saw a leg apply because I knew we weren't using any epseth and it would be resto apps. Does decent damage, but gets scaled down hard vs armor, which is unfortunate. 

Then again maybe we don't want another prone burst for groups. 

Think the problem there is that 2H damage can already be retarded in 1v1. If Brain was any better, no one unartefacted would be able to survive that.

I could get behind Brain being unblockable type damage, though. That way it's not just the squishy classes taking heaps while Knights take nothing, as it stands currently.

Borran

Daeir said:

Also stop being combat prudes and post moar logs. It's less about trying to potentially steal strats and more admiring the situational awareness that makes their execution consistently possible, especially with only a few people. I marvel at that shit.

Speak for yourself.  I want to steal Strats and find new ways to avoid old Strats.  

Leviticus

Any new logs?