Sword and Board Discussion

Ernam

I'd much rather see data from more than 1 single use of the ability per weapon, particularly since we've established that they're somewhat random (at least, some attacks are), either due to actual randomness inserted, or due to unintended effects of processing time/server ticks, etc.  I know that I've seen results higher and lower than those for my L0 and L3s.

Just to be clear though, I'm definitely not calling for speed upgrades, necessarily.  I'm just calling for a relatively linear improvement when upgrading artefacts, particularly considering that they cost exponentially more for each upgrade.  I just see the speed cap as a very lazy fix for a perceived problem that could have been in a much more fair way, and I don't like finding out about it on the back-end of a purchase of a text sword that costs more than a car payment.

I think that whether or not the max speed of slice being 1.9 seconds is the perfect "max speed" is a debate of its own, which I honestly don't have enough experience to comment on (nor do I think anyone really does, as we're still learning more about the class every day).  It's just the ethics of it all that I find offensive.

Cooper

The speed on the test server gives me the exact balance recovery time, with 0 latency from either the server or my side. There is 0 variation in balance recovery times. Sena can explain how the server bundles things together on (I think, not 100%) a 25ms basis, or something like that, so the times can vary by 25ms.

Sena

I'm not 100% certain of all the details of balance recovery, but I'm pretty sure there's a balance recovery tick that happens every 0.1s (100ms), so that can add up to 0.1s to recovery time. It shouldn't make it shorter. There also is some server-side variation in balance costs that are supposedly static (seen from others who have had the balance costs visible for debugging). I suspect (but I'm not sure at all) it's because the server rounds the balance cost from the raw numbers Cooper posted to tenths of a second, and sometimes rounds up and sometimes down, so 1.926 will randomly be 1.9 or 2.0. This is just a guess, it fits the numbers I've seen and seems like the most likely explanation for the variation, but there are plenty of other possibilities.

Caladbolg

Anyone with a level 3 longsword and SoA on live achaea got the speed vs with buckler? Struggling between lyre and SoA taking a guess with coopers numbers and assuming if it's 1.9 on test and 2.0 with soa it'll be 1.8 with buck and 1.9 with soa on live

Cooper

The numbers I gave aren't guesses, and are the same as they are on live. There can be slight rounding differences like Sena explained. It's literally the exact information Achaea processes. If you're seeing different numbers it could be a difference in your delay/lag/Mudlet-Svo not calculating right (SVO frequently tells me I'm slicing at 1.8s, but that's just me lagging a bit).

Caladbolg

Cooper said:

The numbers I gave aren't guesses, and are the same as they are on live. There can be slight rounding differences like Sena explained. It's literally the exact information Achaea processes. If you're seeing different numbers it could be a difference in your delay/lag/Mudlet-Svo not calculating right (SVO frequently tells me I'm slicing at 1.8s, but that's just me lagging a bit).

Oh, that makes sense I guess, always thought timestamps ran off computer time which made it more accurate.

Sena

Server side aliases or queuing can also make balance times appear shorter.

The more you do in one batch, the more pronounced the effect will be.

Avto

Cooper's tests make me sad. L0 sword and buckler has the same speed as L3 and SoA. Top cap (1.9 second) shouldn't be changed as it will break class, but Artefact sword upgrade should have higher dynamism then change in shield type.

I still think buckler shielded SnB knights are same as pre rework rapier knights, with the visualization. 

My idea is this:

1.9 sec                     2.0 sec               
lv3+SoA                  lvl3+cavalry
Lv2+banded            lv2+SoA
lv0/1+buckler         lvl0/1+banded

Mizik

Um. SoA is the biggest plus of the spec. You can't underestimate the impact. I don't understand the disappointment of the best defensive artifact in the game not offering maximized offense. Blademaster Mir would drive you nuts. It's .1s + god mode. 

Caladbolg

Mizik said:

Um. SoA is the biggest plus of the spec. You can't underestimate the impact. I don't understand the disappointment of the best defensive artifact in the game not offering maximized offense. Blademaster Mir would drive you nuts. It's .1s + god mode. 

True but using Mir stance also prevents you from using other stances, like thyr for accuracy and speed, Arash for damage and speed, Sanya for increased shin gain and slightly more stats, Also think Mir stance reduces your over all damage (been awhile) While SoA on the other hand increases your damage at the cost of speed.

But Mir's biggest strength imo, is the fact it reduces damage from bbt/disembowel ext ext while SoA doesn't work against finishers which puts them generally in two different ballparks.


At least my two cents.

Mizik

That was my point. 

Hence "would drive you nuts".

Caladbolg

Mizik said:

That was my point. 

Hence "would drive you nuts".

Oh, I completely took your post the wrong way then. my bad

Speaking of which funny little snb story I thought Paladin was so squishy switching from mir bm to Paladin I was falling over to basic attacks from 2h with out fractures and couldn't figure out why (Since Revit is super op against 2h imo) and then one day someone finally told me that dedication uses health when I thought it used mana. Now I die alot less!

Geras

Just my thoughts on the SoA thing:

I have a normal longsword and with my buckler I would see values of 1.8-2.0 from Svo timers, so average 1.9. Now with my SoA it is 2.1-2.3, so 2.2 average. I guess it is gonna be bad for combat but I'm definitely loving it for bashing. Might keep a buckler around for that, although I am considering investing into a better sword now.   

And a question for the experienced: any good ideas for managing the weird combo attack for combat? I have to change 3 variables in there, 4 if you count a shield attack other than smash. I'm trying to use alt+numpad for limbs/low-mid-high, but with 23 or so venoms at my disposal I am running out of buttons!  

Also, Mudlet keeps putting in the command line the weird characters with alt+numpad so typing new commands becomes a problem...  

Cooper

I use the keypad to handle all of my "which attacks do I want to do". 1 is high, 2 is mid, 3 is low, 4 is drive, etc. The execution is on F1-F2-F3-F4 (combo, a special combo with a shieldstrike, impale, dsb). F5-F12 is different venoms, most of them preset groups of 4-6. You don't need a separate button/alias to envenom every venom, there are maybe 10 you want to have available at any time.

Antonius

Caladbolg said:

Mizik said:

That was my point. 

Hence "would drive you nuts".

Oh, I completely took your post the wrong way then. my bad

Speaking of which funny little snb story I thought Paladin was so squishy switching from mir bm to Paladin I was falling over to basic attacks from 2h with out fractures and couldn't figure out why (Since Revit is super op against 2h imo) and then one day someone finally told me that dedication uses health when I thought it used mana. Now I die alot less!

It's both, otherwise there'd be minimal downside to using Dedication against Serpent since they don't have any health pressure of their own. If I recall correctly it should be 8% health and mana lost per attack while paralysed with Dedication up.

Caladbolg

Antonius said:

Caladbolg said:

Mizik said:

That was my point. 

Hence "would drive you nuts".

Oh, I completely took your post the wrong way then. my bad

Speaking of which funny little snb story I thought Paladin was so squishy switching from mir bm to Paladin I was falling over to basic attacks from 2h with out fractures and couldn't figure out why (Since Revit is super op against 2h imo) and then one day someone finally told me that dedication uses health when I thought it used mana. Now I die alot less!

It's both, otherwise there'd be minimal downside to using Dedication against Serpent since they don't have any health pressure of their own. If I recall correctly it should be 8% health and mana lost per attack while paralysed with Dedication up.

The more you know!

Kenway

Killed myself with dedication for the first time today. Note to self. Only use it when you're actually paralysed.