Sword and Board Discussion

Dji

Cooper said:

A random affliction every X seconds helps you get them behind, and impatience can theoretically help you lock them, but shield afflictions are a bit lacking, unless there is something I'm just not seeing.

Honestly, if I were infernal, I'd be looking at 2h or dual blunt myself. Those both seem like much better fits for the class. I'm a bit out of date on the skills infernals have though, so maybe I'm missing something.

Addama

21:24:36.422 Your ferocity decreases.

21:24:36.475 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

Can this stop happening please. 

Mizik

Bro, if we could see that Infestation imp tho


Sheeeeeit

Addama

I present to you: The No-Prep Disembowel.  From start to finish, about 9 seconds, he's prone for 6 of those seconds.

21:57:13.032 You slowly pull back a morning star, readying yourself for a devastating strike.

21:57:13.032 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:15.619 You strike the left leg of Draqoom with a mighty blow.

21:57:15.619 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:15.910 

21:57:15.910 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

21:57:15.910 4992h 3461m exckb 1-

21:57:15.979 Draqoom takes some salve from a vial and rubs it on his legs.

21:57:15.979 4992h 3461m exckb 1-

21:57:16.076 You have nothing queued for balance.

21:57:16.076 4992h 3461m exckb 1-

21:57:16.150 [System]: Added WIELD LONGSWORD to your balance queue.

21:57:16.150 [System]: Running queued balance command: WIELD LONGSWORD

21:57:16.150 You cease wielding a morning star in your left hand.

21:57:16.150 You begin to wield a longsword in your left hand.

21:57:16.150 4992h 3461m exckb 1-

21:57:16.227 [System]: Added COMBINATION DRAQOOM SLICE LEFT LEG ACONITE TRIP to your balance queue.

21:57:16.227 [System]: Running queued balance command: COMBINATION DRAQOOM SLICE LEFT LEG ACONITE TRIP

21:57:16.227 You rub some aconite on a longsword.

21:57:16.227 You slice into the left leg of Draqoom with a longsword.

21:57:16.227 You duck low and smash your shield into the knees of Draqoom, causing them to buckle underneath him.

21:57:16.227 You batter at your enemy's defences, seeking an opening.

21:57:16.227 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:16.283 [System]: Added COMBINATION DRAQOOM IMPALE CLUB to your balance queue.

21:57:16.283 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:16.335 [System]: Added DISEMBOWEL DRAQOOM to your balance queue.

21:57:16.335 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:16.483 A look of extreme focus crosses the face of Draqoom.

21:57:16.483 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:18.464 

21:57:18.464 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

21:57:18.464 [System]: Running queued balance command: COMBINATION DRAQOOM IMPALE CLUB

21:57:18.464 You draw your blade back and plunge it deep into the body of Draqoom impaling him to the hilt.

21:57:18.464 You bring your shield crashing down onto the sternum of Draqoom, stunning him momentarily.

21:57:18.464 The strength of your blows continues to rise as you hammer at your enemy.

21:57:18.464 [System]: Running queued balance command: DISEMBOWEL DRAQOOM

21:57:18.464 You must regain balance first.

21:57:18.464 4992h 3461m eckb 2-

21:57:19.832 Draqoom takes some salve from a vial and rubs it on his legs.

21:57:19.832 4992h 3461m eckb 2-

21:57:20.123 Draqoom takes a drink from a black glass vial.

21:57:20.123 4992h 3461m eckb 2-

21:57:21.653 Draqoom looks pale and gaunt as his body shudders on the end of the weapon.

21:57:21.653 4992h 3461m eckb 2-

21:57:21.948 Your ferocity decreases.

21:57:21.948 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:22.236 

21:57:22.236 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

21:57:22.236 [System]: Running queued balance command: DISEMBOWEL DRAQOOM

21:57:22.236 With a vicious snarl you carve a merciless swathe through the steaming guts of Draqoom, who gurgles and chokes as you withdraw your dripping blade, glistening with gore.

21:57:22.236 4992h 3461m eckb 1-

21:57:22.527 Draqoom stands up.

21:57:25.183 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

21:57:25.183 4992h 3461m exckb 1-

21:57:25.498 You say, "Wow."

Vaehl

Can you not slice torso instead of leg?

Addama

Vaehl said:

Can you not slice torso instead of leg?

I can slice torso instead of leg.

Oh god.

Vaehl

Mizik

Zzzzzz

Arador

You could potentially lock with it as infernal if you were willing to sit and wait around for the impatience tick, but dual cutting would be better for that. 

It does seem to lack options above the one leg DSB party trick.

Makarios

Snb has a comparable double aff rate to dual cutting (particularly when comparing the higher end of artefacts), assuming you forego a heavy shield. You also get to augment with shield strike.

Its intended as a softlock class. You lose (a very small) amount of versatility in that your shield attacks have a more limited aff pool, but given that you have access to sensitivity, paralyse, and prone on the shield, dual cutting doesn't really have much in terms of herb based afflictions that you'd not be able to make up for with the venom. The only real argument I could give for afflicting superiority for dual cutting (outside of salve afflictions) would be that the curare comes first always, but given accuracy of long/broadswords, this should not really be a factor against most people. You'd definitely need to reevaluate your approach some what (as you can't give say, slickness and anorexia at the same time), but I think people should find it more than potent. (I'm confident we'll need to adjust it down once people get the hang of it, but we'll see.)

Of course, there's also the presence of a paralysis bypass, which immediately puts it at a huge advantage when it comes to afflicting in anything other than a vacuum.

Antonius

How does accuracy/dodging work for the shield attacks, anyway? Can they miss/be dodged? If so, are they all the same accuracy or does it use the weapon's to-hit stat?

Makarios

At present, the shield portion can't be dodged. We might change that later on, but I think its a reasonable tradeoff given that most other combo classes can shut down dodge on the first attack without being very limited. Snb will probably have the paralysis part of the combo always coming second, which is the reasoning there.

Arador

Dodging as a balancing mechanic has always been a pain anyway in my opinion. Rather balance the damage amount and affliction speed and the way it scales than adding in RNG. 

Hasar

When can we stop the several action attacks in one go in retardation pls @Makarioshttps://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/561682c5

Cooper

Mizik said:

Bro, if we could see that Infestation imp tho


Sheeeeeit

I'm not on my computer to test, but I'm pretty sure it actually gives you the "person shuffles his feet in boredom" message. You just have no idea when it's coming. 

Trey

Hasar said:

When can we stop the several action attacks in one go in retardation pls @Makarioshttps://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/561682c5

That's pretty strong, but it's not as if it's multiple commands. Combination goes all on one line with no breaks or ;s. You'd have to change how the command is input.

Arador

Double stab, DSL, Deadeyes, Tekura? This is hardly new. 

Exelethril

Hasar said:

When can we stop the several action attacks in one go in retardation pls @Makarioshttps://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/561682c5

As opposed to what? Single slicing? That's the same as getting dsl'd.

Antonius

Tekura, doublestab and doubleslash don't work like that in retardation. At least we've been repeatedly told they don't/shouldn't work that way (and doubleslash doesn't, last I tested it). It's a single command, but it's treated as three separate actions: KICK/PUNCH/PUNCH, ENVENOM/ENVENOM/DSTAB or ENVENOM/ENVENOM/DOUBLESLASH.

Deadeyes is different because it's only ever one action.

SnB either needs to not be able to envenom in retardation, or dual cutting and two-handed (using a bastard sword) does, so it's consistent. Since Deadeyes is already usable in retardation I'm not convinced having the ability to hit with dual affs as a Knight/Serpent would be grossly overpowered, especially considering you can time rebounding to come up when retardation hits to force flay/raze.

Hasar

What other class can paralysis and prone in one action in retardation?

Arador

Can still load up on venoms before and go to town. 

Dalran

Unartied longsword misses a lot more than I'd like vs a serpent, also when combined with serps ability to stick xentio on you, and rebounding. It's almost impossible to get momentum vs a serpent. Then they have shrugging and evade, and lunge is gone. Scales vs dsb, huge pain in the ass to even bother fighting from my fist impressions.

Austere

Antonius said:

Tekura, doublestab and doubleslash don't work like that in retardation. At least we've been repeatedly told they don't/shouldn't work that way (and doubleslash doesn't, last I tested it). It's a single command, but it's treated as three separate actions: KICK/PUNCH/PUNCH, ENVENOM/ENVENOM/DSTAB or ENVENOM/ENVENOM/DOUBLESLASH.

Deadeyes is different because it's only ever one action.

SnB either needs to not be able to envenom in retardation, or dual cutting and two-handed (using a bastard sword) does, so it's consistent. Since Deadeyes is already usable in retardation I'm not convinced having the ability to hit with dual affs as a Knight/Serpent would be grossly overpowered, especially considering you can time rebounding to come up when retardation hits to force flay/raze.

With the lack of purity and active vibes in retardation,  magi no longer has a straight advantage.  If everyone can double afflict in retardation,  a magi would be dumb to drop one unless their opponent is already jacked up,  in which case,  staff to death is probably easier and safer. 

Edit: last I heard,  doublestab was doable in retardation with no draw backs too,  which sucks for the magi. 

Antonius

It's not like Knights and Serpents can't double afflict now, they just get slightly less control over what venoms they're using because they have to load up prior to retardation going down, but that's sort of balanced out by delayed curing on the Magi's side. I'm not pushing for any changes to dual cutting's mechanics inside retardation, though; it should just be consistent (one way or the other) between specs.

Addama

Sent By: Achaea on 1/03/8:54

Your bug report (detail: The *k value for the CONFIG PROMPT CUSTOM is buggy for purposes of Ferocity. It gets stuck at 4 inexplicably.) - has been fixed. The following notes were included: Be live soon.

Cool.

Xer

I think the point Hasar is trying to make is that he thinks SnB should also be required to preenvenom to bring it in line with existing classes, instead of having the envenoming be a part of the single command.

Antonius

His issue seemed to extend beyond that to its ability to both slice curare and trip in one combination inside retardation. Seems like he's implying that not only should they have to pre-envenom, they shouldn't be able to use both slice and a shield attack together inside it.

Atalkez

I can't pomm/strike inside ret even using the queue.

How is slice/shield any different?

Cooper

We have an ability called 'combination'.

"By performing both sword and shield attacks in synch, you are able to unleash vicious combinations against your opponents."

According to the flavor text, the ability gives us the capability of combining the sword attack and shield attack into one attack.

Atalkez

If you miss slice does shield still work?