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Comments
That wasnt at all the purpose of my comment.
I was just stating that combat balance shouldn't be determined by references to such examples.
it requires massive amounts of various forms of play error to die to a priest in 1v1 as a BM, and dramatically more to get locked by one.
Ernam is capable of killing people, even really good people, on a regular basis, presumably because they played imperfectly, and if they had played perfectly, he would not have been able to.
Ignoring the topic of relative player skill, is that entirely wrong? I'm curious what the desired direction for Achaean combat is, but I'm pretty sure if you play perfectly, you should inevitably win or at least never lose.
I mean if you're saying it's too hard, then that makes some sense, but at the same time why should it be easy to pin down a class that specializes in tactical mobility?
@Ernam, I think you're approaching your argument from the wrong angle. You're arguing mechanics, when I think this is a very poor forum for it (especially since you keep going "well yeah, I did manage to do it too, it just wasn't easy enough"), but you've yet to argue why what you're saying makes sense on a conceptual level.
EDIT: wow so this is the fabled phone posting. Fuck this
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
@Nim I've explained what's wrong with BM Evade/prep in incredible clarity and detail in like 3 different threads now.
the reason I made a big deal about it was to draw attention to the issue and to seek other opinions. Once more, I'll point out that the evade prep problem is -far- more than just a priest issue. If anything, priest is a little better off than several other classes.
gonna let it die though, I've ha more than enough feedback already, and have already sent an email to Mak on it.
If you have nothing to say to or about me that isn't a childish insult, then kindly just shut up.
1) Win button Bedevil my own hardlock on me for insta inquisition/absolve. My fault.
2) Not capturing recklessness from spiritwrack. Got prediction script.
Can't happen anymore. /santar
95% of people who die to priest die to flukes, tbh.
Fighting against priest requires paying attention to like 50 different things at once, and screwing up any one of them can get ya killed. Most players put 90% of their attention into offense, and those people tend to be the ones that die to things like incredibly obvious recklessness, smite damage while sipping mana, ignoring locked hellsight/inquisition, and so on.
Not dissing, just pointing that out as a tip for people in general. Gotta watch carefully when fighting priests.
I am pretty sure this is what Terra ia referring to. If it isn't, then hey there is an extra strategy for you to try. Focus locks with passive focus relapse (hellsight and spirit disrupt) are obscene.
I do this frequently, but I definitely wouldn't refer to it as a lock. That said, for reasons that I think are well documented at this point, it's virtually impossible to land inquisition/hellsight on a BM and hinder them afterwards (unless they make a play error easier to avoid than missing double torso breaks).
You can either double leg break to (maybe) land inquisition and (maybe again) land hellsight before stand/evade, or you can save the prep for post Inquisition/Hellsight, which is theoretically impossible if they Evade when they should.
If you're confused as to why I want (blademaster) evade nerfed, you should probably read the 15ish posts I made detailing my reasoning in great depth, to which there has yet to be a valid argument (although there has of course, been unbased protest).
For one thing, for like the 8th time, this isn't just a Priest vs BM thing. If it was, I'd probably just wait for classleads instead of making a stink about it. It's a problem with BM vs. pretty much anyone who can't (simultaneously) double limb break or lunge/jpk, specifically for any class that relies on any form of momentum to win fights.
Also, BMs have many other methods of offensive hindrance and mobility other than Evade. See: void/para, double arm breaks, hand strikes, hamstring, Dash, Leap, Highleap, Bounding, Annihilate.
They also have much more defensive capability than a lot of people are trying to sell us on. See: damage reduction stance, Health Trans, Mana Trans, Phoenix, Immunity, Sturdiness, Alleviate, Fitness, Lifevision (clarity), Dodging, Weathering, Conciousness, Constitution, horkval armor.
Considering that BMs have free access to Leap, the only difference that losing Evade would make would be that they would be affected by (some) standard forms of room hindrance, and would take Engage damage. Having played Blademaster very competitively, both with and without artefacts, I could not possibly disagree more that Blademasters "need" Evade for any reason, whatsoever. They handle affliction pressure better than almost any other class in the game, have ample damage mitigation/anti-spikes, and have more than enough opportunity to use double arm breaks or void/para (or both) to dramatically slow down opponents' offense if need be.
I don't think Jovolo was referring to inquisition/hellsight, just asthma/hellsight, which is perfectly viable. I agree getting inquisition, and then hellsight prior to evade is impossible. I also agree that getting impatience stuck prior to evade is impossible. My disagreement is that neither of these things is necessary.
Bear in mind that spiritwrack is passive focus affs for softlock, spirit disrupt is passive focus affs for softlock, hellsight + asthma is passive focus affs for softlock. And all you need is -one- focus aff besides anorexia to initiate a softlock. All you need is slickness + broken leg to stop evade. Hellsight + slickness is a smoke stack that will temporarily stick slickness. Chasten body is kelp stack master, which will stick asthma, which will stick slickness. There are options.
Is BM probably the most difficult class for priest to fight? Yes. I'm just saying there are options.
Absolutely solid response, thank you ( it's honestly refreshing after the travesty occurring in Rants ).
I will have to put some experimentation into this since you seem pretty convinced that this is realistic, and since I honestly don't think you'd pump it up so much if it wasn't at least partially viable.
I will say that I did toy with it already, and dismissed it rather early due to the fact that you're relying on three simultaneous, RNG-delivered and RNG-cured afflictions sticking for a meaningful amount of time, with minimal momentum to stack these affs:
kelp stack for asthma (either chasten body which is 3/6 kelp affs [not counting justice] or jabs, which sacrifices disrupts (and are frequently dodged/rebounded)
focus stack for anorexia, which is inherently difficult to maintain due to being a focus stack.
smoke stack for slicknes, which is a 1 second balance, or at best, 3-4 seconds if hellsight is given directly after restoration is applied.
All of this has to be done within the constraints of rebounding, and can be undone by RNG curing of any of the afflictions mentioned, including an inevitable tree against anyone with a smart system, and of course Fitness and/or Alleviate (which doesn't have to cure a lock affliction, it just has to cure something focus/kelp cured). Also worth mentioning that hellsight itself isn't chainable and is not a "fast" ability, meaning you'd only have a single attack after hellsight before they regain salve balance to seal a useable "soft-lock".
If the stars don't all align 2 seconds after you break the second limb (as restoration is applied) the entire thing must be repeated. Not to mention, you have to build the kelp + focus stack prior to the breaks and maintain it through both.
Also, your only three options for breaking two limbs against static parry are:
break an arm then a leg (allows easy gtfo)
break a leg then an arm (allows a gtfo prior to second restoration apply)
break both legs using super slow priest "parry bypass" methods, which triples the amount of time required to prep this maneuvre, and is fairly heavily telecasted.
Not saying it wouldn't work, and will accommodate my strategy to allow for the possibility of this working, but I'd estimate that you're looking at around a 10-25% success rate on attempts, which would be slow and difficult to prep against a smart opponent. (Also totally unusable against monks, knights, bms, priests, dragons, and to a lesser extend sylvans and magi due to active healing, if used properly).
Open to corrections and additional feedback on that analysis.
25%ish chance of working is likely accurate, if the person is hardcore attempting to evade. The longer they stay in the room, the more the odds increase. Prep is easier than you say. 2.1 herb balance + paralysis (fast jab/throw/torc) is fairly easy parry bypass, and smite prep is fast.
Only saying it's possible, though. Not that it's easy.
Against someone who cannot evade [added] or puppet travel, I could definitely see it being significantly more viable though, since you could realistically get more kelp/focus affs in, and more than 1 or 2 disrupts before they vanish into thin air.
Against anyone other than like, Jhui, however, I don't really need this method for other people. Really just looking for ways to kill Blademasters (and serpents) who know how/when to bail properly.
Man I'm so glad you know more than everyone that has ever played Achaea.
One day I will get on your level too.
I'm sorry I die to fully artied, lvl 3 mace smite damage. 30% per round just is so little, I can't believe I die to that.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I thought that was who this entire conversation was about? Now I'm just confused!
You realize that bailing properly is 99% of Achaean combat though right?
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
As Occie I could script hamstring evade follow to eliminate spamming and always beat their balance. Not bounding.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Just walk. Piety is the only reason to evade, and once you're out of the first room, there's no reason to use evade/bounding.
Glancing over the passive-aggressive response to a helpful, rational, and correct bit of advice, I'll risk doing it again.
As a BM, if you're dying to pure smites, especially artied, you're simply not using your class correctly. You have many options other than just looping evade/legslash. See: Trans Health for 50% of your max health, with a 1 second eq cost, that works prone.
You're also (as I've pointed out to you in game) static prio-ing mana and sipping mana when you're at 10% health, and 90% mana. This is just silly, and is nothing other than straight up play error.
You should also probably considering leveling up. Hard to bitch about max health when I see 21 year olds every day that are higher level than you.
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
It was passive aggressive because you've been nothing but aggressive towards me since this entire thread started. If you don't see that, then I do not know what to tell you.
Again, in one of my previous posts I admitted that I have absolutely made play errors and continue to learn from them.
I appreciate your constant barrage of "pointers" and will take the advice that I believe is sound and not trolling. Thanks.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.