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Comments
It honestly blows my mind when I do kill BMs 1v1. 100% of of the time, they're completely able to evade, and just... don't.
Pretty standard fight:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f1b637ba
Had like a full 10 seconds to leave and didn't, died to absolve with one affliction (sensi), and shielded against absolve instead of evading. (note that this example was 2 rooms away from Ashtan's totem)
He also could have hamstringed instead of pointles sternum hits, but just... didn't.
These mistake are essentially required for a priest to kill a blademaster.
At no point can a priest hinder long enough to absolve.
Was a gank gone wrong. I stayed in room waiting on my backup doing damage, but they never showed.
I don't fight 1v1 like that.
Also you absolved at 58% mana, which means I had Inquisition not just sensitivity. Yes?
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Look man, I get it. Nobody likes having their toys taken away, especially when their toy makes them virtually invulnerable to death with no drawbacks.
My argument is in the sake of combat balance in general, as this is a problem for almost all classes against BMs who use slow prep/evade (all of them).
Many classes don't have things like this, and are thus completely at the whim of BMs. I'm definitely fine with BMs having mobility but having played as a BM against all classes, and having fought against BMs as about six now, I have noticed a trend. BM slow prep + evade > combat.
I understand where you are coming from, but you have to look at it from the other perspective too.
In about a 10-12 second window you:
Stuck enough affs to be able to land Inquisition
Sapped mana enough to be under 60%
Absolved
Now, this may seem okay to you. What you are asking for is a nerf to one class so that it works "better" against others (mainly Priest).
You are failing to realize the utter demolition that standing in-room with a Priest can be. Running every few seconds in a requirement vs any Priest worth anything in combat. You have to take into account a classes offense as well as their defense. You can't focus on one side of equation and expect everything to balance. Just isn't going to do it. That's like saying Peyton Manning is a garbage QB because he lost 2 SB's. He has great offense, but his defense sucks.
As a whole, I personally don't feel like Evade is that much of a game changer. Against some classes, sure it is very very tough to deal with. That is combat, though.
When I started, people who had earrings were tough to deal with.
People who had wings were tough to deal with.
People with level 3 offense and defensive set, plus level 3 artifact weapons are -still- tough to deal with.
Evade....is tough to deal with.
I just don't see the overwhelming OMG factor that you try to convey.
If Evade gets taken, honestly that's not a big deal. We'll just have to use something else that will have people yelling for it to get nerfed next.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
This only isn't the case if the momentum class has a means of surviving the best possible offence of the prepper, in which case it comes down to a tie/attrition.
→My Mudlet Scripts
This only applies to slow prep via unstoppable hit & run methods (slash/evade, fashion/travel, earrings, etc), and cheap/lame methods like enmesh/hangedman spam for prepping purposes (appears to be the design strategy for dragon).
Otherwise, momentum classes are designed to be able to have some amount of chance to reach a threshold where they can succeed before the best possible offense sequence begins.
There are also, generally, counters to slow prep techniques, but what gets the complaints going is when there simply is no counter, at all (see: puppet travel, universe tarot, BM evade*).
Most classes in the game have zero options to respond to BM evade slow prep, other than lyring or returning to city, to allow limbs to reset. If you're in the arena, then GG.
I have hope that we'll address this in the near future, because the community and the admins have been going down a list of these techniques and fixing them, in the last year or so, including reflection spamming, earrings, RoF nerf/tentacle buffs, and so on. Until then, we are going to have to keep fighting BMs fueled purely off of the flimsy hope that they forget they are able to hamstring/evade (which, evidently, happens frequently).
*note that I'm only claiming that BM evade is problematic, because again, serpents are a momentum class, and lose all momentum when they evade/run. BM loses nothing.
You don't have to stack eighteen million affs, either. Be smart about spiritlash/saps after a health sip for a quick inquisition, and keep hellsight rolling while you build for legbreaks.
You can deal with evade, but against two equally skilled (in their class) opponents, you have to either wait for or make them make a mistake and capitalize on it. Unfortunately, it's not a fact that [insert whatever your name is because this is true of everyone] is more skilled or knowledgeable than everyone [anyone you're fighting].
@Kuy
Are you suggesting that I Inquisition someone with >80% Mana? Do you know how Inquisition works? Do you understand how slow inquisition is, and that it afflicts with nothing (no longer breaks limbs), and provides nearly enough time for a full sip balance? It's an incredibly cool ability, but is a total waste of time against someone who can Evade.
Or are you suggesting that I Inquisition after I double leg break? (impossible against static parry, because priest has zero parry bypass) ... which takes longer equilibrium (even with QW+aldar) than healing legs takes, which provides about 6-8 seconds of opportunity to evade before absolve attempt is feasible.
Have you ever been a priest and tried to actually land an inquisition against a BM using evade to prep? It isn't possible. Inquisition requires an affliction stack or other form of mana drain momentum. This momentum doesn't exist, because they ignore our singular hindrance ability. Even if the BM generously stays in the room and allows you to inquisition, the can immediately evade away before you regain balance. Inquisition pretty much requires Piety to work, period.
Inquisition is also a blatant giveaway that you're about to attempt an absolve, and there is nothing available to priest that can stop a BM before, during, or after an Inquisition that can't be cured by the time you have equilbrium back from it. 100% of the time, in 1v1 combat, you can Evade from Inquisition. 100%. Hellsight? Just no. Nothing about inquisition or hellsight hinders evade, and just those two abilities alone provide enough time to heal a double leg break, even ignoring the actual balance cost of breaking the legs, and assuming they for some reason aren't static parrying one of them for some unfathomable reason.
It sounds to me like you don't know much about priest combat, and the "Jesus Christ, man" at the beginning of your post makes it pretty clear that you're not willing to engage in actually understanding the logic that I'm painstakingly providing.
Lastly, this isn't just about Priest vs BM. This problem applies to most classes that can't slow prep back (basically, all affliction classes). Evade needs to have some afflictions that stop it (dizziness, weariness), or needs to just be removed from BM entirely. Removing hamstring to allow chasing after evade would be a viable alternative, but is too crucial to BM combat. They don't need evade at all, they have leap, and can tumble, just like everyone else.
@Tesha
I'm not here to argue "who Priests the best." I'm just here to say that you really, honestly haven't tried using everything that at's your disposal. Instead, and just like in the past with both serpent and monk, you have pigeonholed yourself into one or two similar strategies without trying to branch off into new, often off-the-wall ones; now you bring your frustrations to the forums and many people get annoyed because of your tone, dismissal, and "I'm the Ernam that should be on the Achaean wheaties box" attitude and then wonder why it's hard for people to accept you as a level-headed, unbiased, not-asshole.
[I'm sorry that the above paragraph may seem hostile - it's not meant to. I'm not good with not hurting peoples' feelings.
I haven't been a priest for that long yet, and I'm sure there's a small thing or two that I haven't missed. Using angel push to prep limbs is a decent idea that I will probably try, for example.
Re: breaking arms to prep legs. Totally unfeasible. Evade on pre-leg break arm smite is unstoppable and happens 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time would be after the second arm break.
However, your entire line of thought on Inquisition/hellsight (particularly when you start talking about 20-30 second inquisitions) entirely relies on the BM not leaving. The entire point of my problem with Evade is that nothing priest has access to can stop them from leaving without sacrificing all other momentum (like Shatter, smite/push). It isn't a "small mistake" for a BM to stay in the room for you if they're in danger of absolve or if they have inquisition/hellsight. Every second they stay there and every action the do in that time period is a mistake. 20 seconds of fighting with inquisition/hellsight is 20 seconds of non-stop mistake. Even rookie BMs know not to do this.
As for not scratching the surface of Priest hindrance, I'd honestly love to know what we have access to that stops Evade for this 20-30 second period you keep referencing, or allows us to heal hamstring to chase. Perhaps I could classlead a limitation on evade that lasts the duration of Hamstring. One or the other, essentially, not both.
You also need to understand that my point of view on this is from both as a BM and as a priest, because I've been on both against the other countless times, at this point.
I'm all about creative solutions to problems, and I take pride in having coined a long list of them. See: the other thread where I'm being drug through the dirt for using axes to venomlock, a strategy that I developed purely to kill people that don't die to Inquisition or Absolve (BMs, serpents, heavily artied players).
→My Mudlet Scripts
@Hasar yep, pretty much. I rarely find people who do this properly.
Also, double leg breaks requires about 5 seconds of balance to buy 6-7 seconds of prone.
Long enough for one attack, basically.
I think, perhaps changing it like voidfist, to make it where bladetwists increase the time it lasts may be more appropriate. If it had an average time of 10 seconds and each bladetwist made it last let's just say 5 seconds longer. we're looking at
0.0 Impaleslash (10 seconds)
2.3(I think?) Break legs + prone
4.0 Impale
6.0 Bladetwist, (9 seconds now)
7.0 Bladetwist (13 seconds now)
8.0 Bladetwist (17 seconds now)
9.0 Impale
11.0 Bladetwist (21 seconds now)
12.0 they standish
Still gives you 21 seconds to chase them down with impaleslash on a proper combo, but only gives you four seconds to act on it. (all times were guessed at of course)
I play priest and have killed several people with evade who were attempting to use evade to get away. Just saying.
It does require more creativity with priest offense, mind you. Can't just fight like normal priest. @Ernam, you hardly coined priest truelock, given that many people can attest that I was truelocking long before you were priest. Anyway, I have truelock tactics that are pretty good counters to evade. Inquisition unnecessary. My truelock tactics also don't involve bug abuse, which is what you were being criticized for! (weapon/chasten/disrupt is not supposed to be possible).
There are at least two good ways to bypass static parry. One requires a torc. The other, angel push.
Truly your talent takes our collective breath away. Please tell us more about how world-shattering you are.
Surely no-one else has ever figured out how to use venoms and massive affliction output to lock someone...
I have locked several people since the "bug" you accuse me of abusing (for 12 hours) was fixed. Disrupts in the combo at the point that an opponent has impatience make zero difference.
I never said priest can't bypass static parry, I just said that we don't have any in-line class abilities that allow it. Obviously any class in the game can post-balance prone or break the other leg and prone, getting around (not really bypassing) parry. I'll cut you some slack on this one, but I've mentioned this in several other threads.
Your claim that you've venomlocked BMs actively trying to evade away is pure absurdity. Other than paralysis and the 3-ish seconds of on-balance hindrance you get from double leg breaks, we have absolutely no way of stopping evade. So one of a few things happened if you think you venomlocked someone trying to evade:
1) They weren't trying to evade, because if they were, they would have (since you absolutely cannot stop it, torc or no)
2) They (completely voluntarily, and unwisely) let you build an aff stack massive enough to allow you to land impatience on them, which generally occurs around 9-12 afflictions, minimum (5 mentals, 3-4 disrupts, impatience). Since ZERO of the 9-12 afflictions prior to impatience prevent evade, perhaps it's safer to assume that your target was just being dumb.
3) Your opponent spammed evade and the most impressively terrible RNG in the history of the game occurred, and stupidity proc'd every single Evade attempt (it's the only non-break affliction priest has other than paralysis that stops it).
4) Your opponent dropped below their focus setpoint and stopped focusing, which requires a significant amount of time (during which they could have evaded, but didn't), so the error is on them for both allowing you to get that far, and not manually/automatically overriding their focus setpoint to avoid a lock. Either way, it's blatant play error on their part, not proof that Priest can stop Evade against someone curing proprly.
5) You venomlocked someone with zero Survival, in which case, Grats?
Unless you care to explain how you build 9-12 afflictions on someone spamming hamstring evade on you (you can't), please don't barge in and boast about how you and only you, the messiah of combat, know how to play priest.
The bottom line is this: It's totally possible to kill BMs as a priest, but only if they make significant play errors, and essentially let you do it. I've killed @Atalkez countless times, and even @Mizik a few times, but in all examples, they were completely capable of Evading, but simply didn't. Props to them for their machismo, or props to me for exploiting their play error, but either way, it was play error.
I'm not entirely sure why you're assuming I have to build 9-12 affliction on someone to truelock. I must be a goddess, if I do the impossible. I will take it as a compliment.
Also, I never said I am the only person who knows how to play priest. You are the one saying you don't know how to play priest. I am simply pointing out that at least one of us does. There may, of course, be others.
stating that you, as a priest, can land (and maintain) impatience in 3 seconds while venom locking a player with tree balance and access to fitness, alleviate, Phoenix, and evade... Is just... Pure bullshit.
the venom delivery to lock -alone- requires 8 seconds, which is two legslashes, hamstring, and Evade.
She -did- lock me on her alt. I don't have a log of it anymore for comparison, but it did happen. Not going to discount your play error defense, because it's me let's be honest, but she isn't lying either.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Except I didn't state that at all. I never mentioned impatience, and specifically said that they don't become fully truelocked until later.
He just complimented you while simultaneously saying Terra's got moves, too.
There's no reason whatsoever to demean him after being nice to you.