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Classleads September 2014

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  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bukariin said:
    Xith said:
    And Jexter needs some desterity buffs.
    This.  I stupidly respec'd my Mhun Jester for dex before consulting with anybody re: what dex actually does, so now I have a stupidly undertanked, underpowered, terrible bashing, albeit kind of dodgy but mostly terrible Jester.

    I'm going to sit on it for awhile in hopes that there's going to be some changes, but if that doesn't happen, I'm probably going to change class to Serpent (because he hasn't bought a lesson bundle yet so switching classes would actually be cheaper than switching race).
    So you should have about 16 dex, right? Don't underestimate the usefulness. Jesters don't need STR or INT, and your other option is constitution, which seems nice except that you have to worry about the timing of your offense, so being able to dodge limb damage is a little more useful, get Light Stepper and have speed and acrobatics up. The only damage you have to really worry about then is magic, for which I recommend the relatively affordable Ring of the Magus.

    I noticed the recent Impale/tumble change so that's gonna suck a little vs knights. But your goal is to get your prep and combos in before you get prepped, cause getting prepped for damage hurts as a jester no matter what your health. I recommend avoiding the damage altogether. (oh Trans Avoidance)

    But they should introduce something, like maybe a 0.1 second increase in bomb stun/entangle per dexterity point or whatever. Or that glue bomb idea where the glue is more effective with dex. Chance to drop = 10/d, so with 11 dex an opponent could drop/pack a sticky bomb 91% of the time, while with 18 dex like 55%. Idk just thoughts.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014

    Bukariin said:
    My point is that I want Dex to matter for Jesters more than just blunt/cutting mitigation before I do anything with him. 

    The last time I changed race/class when some positive changes were rumored about my race/class, I was Sylvan pre-Heartseed, and left the class like one week before Heartseed got implemented.  So I'm going to hold out a bit.
    Just to recap, with Con you have a higher health pool. With armor you take less damage. With a successful dodge, you take zero damage. So in a way dex does matter. I recommend:
    - dex spec (+2)
    - Light Stepper + Agile (+1)
    - Ring of the Magus (275 cr)
    - Shield of Absorption (500 cr)
    - trans Avoidance
    - belt, bracelet, sip ring are ideal
    EDIT: And level 2 boots if you want to make people really mad
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So basically, you want him to unnecessarily blow a ton of credits, when he could just go something like Con spec'd Raja + dex trait and lose nothing hugely noticeable, but gain a decent chunk of health. For a fraction of the cost. Relying on a dodge to save you from a crucial hit is like relying on your opponent dcing midfight. (something you shouldn't be doing)
    Raja+dex+light stepper+con spec+trans avoidance/jester defs/speed is already more than enough.

    Bukariin: Level 73
    dex Mhun+dex trait = 16 dex/10 con = 300+73(3*10+4) = 2782hp
    con Raja+dex trait = 13 dex/14 con = 300+73(3*14+4) = 3658hp
    or con Raja+con trait = 12 dex/15 con = 300+73(3*15+4) = 3877hp

    I honestly don't forsee them giving Jester anything dex based anytime future. There's no logical reason for it (granted a lot of illogical things happen, but y'know)

    PraxidesShirszae
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    No when I had the setup mentioned I'd guess physical classes only hit me about 60% of the time, and with the +2 from boots it was more like 50%. There are ways around it like that one accuracy skill that some class had... and paralysing or hindering to prevent dodges, but their time spent doing that just to get the prep is a couple extra fashions you can steal.

    I don't know which kind of logic you mean, but jesters are inherently dexterity-themed. It makes absolute sense for them to do it and after they gave dex boosts to serpent they hinted at applying the idea to other classes.


    EDIT: Call me crazy (I am) but I also find a little extra challenge rewarding. Most of the people had no idea they were just beaten by a jester with 11 con but for me it's a little more satisfying and in keeping with the mood of the class, one of roguish trickery and humiliating your enemies to death.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • AktillumAktillum PhilippinesMember Posts: 1,368 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2014
    I think the problem with Jexter is that the dodging is effectively nullified by to-hit / accuracy artes (SPs, knuckles), leaving you a squishy dex-spec that isn't dodging as much as you wish you were, with minimal con to make up for it. So if you intend to roll dex-spec, definitely have con artes + sip ring as a backup.

    Jesters don't gain any offensive benefit from dex, like how dex = dstab speed for Serps. So if you roll dex-spec, you're pretty much gambling your defense on a whole lot of factors. You really want to spec con / tanking, then dex.

    PraxidesShirszae
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    Pretty sure Bleed vs Denizens = no Swiftcurse.
    Swiftcurse still works against denizens.
    Ernam
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,573 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Last batch of classlead cookies, straight from the Tectoven:

    ANNOUNCE NEWS #4224                                     (10/13/2014 at 15:42)  
    From   : Tecton, the Terraformer
    To     : Everyone
    Subject: October 2014 Classlead Changes - Part V
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    All good things must come to an end, including the approved CLASSLEADs from this season! Don't worry 
    though, there's plenty more in store in the very near future (including a couple of changes that fit 
    in with bigger projects).

    But that's enough waffling on, here's the latest batch:

    Devotion
    --------
    * INQUISITION will now deal health damage to the victim instead of limb breaks.

    Domination
    ----------
    * ISTRIA (Pathfinder) has had its health pool reduced significantly.
    * SUMMONing of entities is now unforceable.

    Elementalism
    ------------
    * REFLECTION has had its equilibrium cost increased.

    Physiology
    ----------
    * WRACK will now deliver weariness correctly.
    * INUNDATE'ing the choleric humour will now be more effective on targets with sensitivity.
    * High phlegmatic fluid levels will now extend the next smoke balance, rather than blocking it.

    Shindo
    ------
    * VOIDFIST duration has been decreased (see Two Arts section for more information).
    * AUGMENT has been added to the skill.

    Spirituality
    ------------
    * MACE weapon statistics have been adjusted. Some damage has been removed and added to the speed 
    stat.
    * DRAIN is now a percentage of max health, rather than a fixed amount.
    * SMASH has been sped up.
    * PUSH has been added to the skill.

    Tekura
    ------
    * Limb damage from attacks was scaled back on all attacks.
    * JUMPKICK damage has been reduced slightly.
    * CAT stance has had its balance penalty reduced.

    Two Arts
    --------
    * Stances are now unstrippable.
    * POMMELSTRIKE will no longer stun the target.
    * POMMELSTRIKE has had its accuracy increased.
    * POMMELSTRIKE will now extend the duration of the VOIDFIST effect by a short margin. This effect 
    has diminishing returns.

    Penned by My hand on the 10th of Glacian, in the year 666 AF.

    Seftin
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 962 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Woah Priest and Alchemist both looking insanely good.
    AtalkezMelodie
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited October 2014
    You keep saying how awesome priest is, and yet I see like... 2 active priests.

    Is it significantly better than it was before?  Yes.

    Are there still several classes that dramatically exceed its combat potential in both 1v1 and group scenarios?  Definitely.

    Until that changes, I don't see what the point is of repeatedly stating how "amazing" or "insane" it is.  Just saying.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        Rangor
      1. DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        PRIEST IS SO GOOD NOW

        SO IS SHAMAN
        ASJMDKAOJDHBAIOUNDBAIBDAILJK SD

        CLASSLEADS 2014 THE DREAM
        JeslynCooperMelodieXith
      2. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Muh limb damage

        The worst part is now I have to redo my limb damage formula.  Does anybody know if it was scaled back by a fixed amount or a percentage or both?
      3. SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,573 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited October 2014
        Details on our new shiny ability

        Augment (Shindo)                              Known: Yes
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Syntax:            SHIN AUGMENT <ALL|amount>
        Details:
        By augmenting your reflexes with shin energy, you will reach such a
        degree of skill with the blade that you are able to deflect blows aimed
        at your limbs, even when prone.

        ** This ability is used in conjunction with the parry ability.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        EDIT: In short, while augment is active, BMs can parry while prone.

        The variable amount basically translates to 'more shin spent, longer augment duration'. However, there is a cooldown that also scales with shin expenditure. Thus, the more shin spent, the longer the augment duration and cooldown.

        EDIT EDIT: I also presume this was in response to:

        Report #99
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Submitted by: Mizik          Status      : Approved                 Priority : -1
        Skill       : Shindo         Ability     : Balancing
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Problem:
        After adding the dexterity changes from CLASSLEAD 88, sweepkick still allows a Monk to completely 
        eliminate the Avoidance skill and Dexterity stat for predictable prep. The Riding skill and 
        Balancing ability were created to balance this problem. The oversight remains in Blademaster.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Solution #1:
        Add Balancing to Shindo.
        Solution #2:
        Allow Blademasters full offense while mounted. It is a completely unjustified mechanical imbalance 
        added purely for roleplay flavour.
        Solution #3:
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Decision:
        We'll discuss potential alternative options.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Eld
      4. JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        The only thing wrong with Priest right now is that the good Priest players are in other factions.
        image
        Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

        VaehlCooper
      5. BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Ernam said:
        You keep saying how awesome priest is, and yet I see like... 2 active priests.
        I don't agree that there's clear correlation here. Priest is a faction class, changing class is expensive, most people will not change class abruptly solely for PK.
        image
        JovoloIocun
      6. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Can Augment also parry while paralyzed?  Otherwise Monks are pretty boned vs. BM
      7. ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        RIP Monk
        DraqoomMizikErnam
      8. ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,351 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        What was the reason behind the monk limb damage changes? Monks don't use venoms or have much active hinderance(besides batter/kai cripple), so I thought that was the trade off..?

        [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

        [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
        Mizik
      9. SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,573 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Bukariin said:
        Can Augment also parry while paralyzed?  Otherwise Monks are pretty boned vs. BM
        Pretty sure augment only allows parry while prone, but afflictions can still stop parrying even while augmented.

      10. XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
        edited October 2014
        No, you can augment parry while paralysed at the moment
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
      11. TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Ernam said:
        You keep saying how awesome priest is, and yet I see like... 2 active priests.

        Is it significantly better than it was before?  Yes.

        Are there still several classes that dramatically exceed its combat potential in both 1v1 and group scenarios?  Definitely.

        Until that changes, I don't see what the point is of repeatedly stating how "amazing" or "insane" it is.  Just saying.


        The fact that everyone who wants to abuse priest can't because they aren't Targossian doesn't make it a bad class lol.

        Priest is hot right now. Its only weakness is its willpower pool.

        Alchemist is even hotter, though. Like wtf. Wasn't sensitivity/choleric already an instakill?

      12. DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,199 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited October 2014
        Jhui made a three if statement offense and I could hit him maybe once every tree cycle while leaning on my offense lol.*

        Priest stupid.

        *Without rites or spiritwrack going.


        Jacen
      13. JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Not happy at all with limb damage changes. 

        Preliminary testing shows that they deviously adjusted the limb damage of each particular attack, as well as multiplied by some reducing factor. It also doesn't appear that proportionality between actual damage and limb damage dealt is holding, unless I'm making  a big mistake in my calculations (definitely possible)

        At this point, looks like you're throwing all your numbers out and starting over.
        image
        Bukariin
      14. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,861 Achaean staff
        Augment won't let you parry when paralysed/entangled now, that was an error. (Also has a telegraphed initiation step now.)
        BukariinSynbiosTrillianaValaria
      15. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        Jacen said:
        Not happy at all with limb damage changes. 

        Preliminary testing shows that they deviously adjusted the limb damage of each particular attack, as well as multiplied by some reducing factor. It also doesn't appear that proportionality between actual damage and limb damage dealt is holding, unless I'm making  a big mistake in my calculations (definitely possible)

        At this point, looks like you're throwing all your numbers out and starting over.
        Are you saying that Hammerfists do different limb damage than Spears?

        Wouldn't that make my limb counter kind of, uh, a leg counter, or an arm counter, but not both?
      16. CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,074 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        I haven't tested, but that's not a big deal if it's true. Spear only hits and and hammer only legs. Having didn't damage values just means you have to count differently. 

      17. JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Now that I think about it, target was wearing armor, and armor's linear damage reduction means my numbers aren't correct. Will have to do the testing again.
        @Bukariin : Hammerfist is probably still the same as spear. Haven't tested, but I don't see a reason for changing that. What I meant by my post is that, for monk at least, all limb damage numbers are relative to some basepoint, since we can't know an absolute scale of damage. Generally, and for the limb counter I have, that basepoint is unstanced, targeted jab punch. Now, again for monk, the limb damage of the different attacks was strictly proportional to the HP damage of each attack. If a DRS HFP did twice the damage of an unstanced JBP, then the HFP would do twice the limb damage of the unstanced JBP. 

        My preliminary findings (which I'm sure are incorrect now) indicated that wasn't true now. Anyways, can probably disregard my original post for the moment, until I or someone has had time to test it under the right conditions. My initial thought is that our limb damage wasn't decreased much, but enough to remove the possibility of a mangle lock, which @Mizik classleaded (FU)
        image
      18. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        edited October 2014
        Doesn't look like punches have been modified much - 300 damage is still my base for a punch - but kicks got nerfed hard, from 750 base to 600 base damage.  That's a 20% damage decrease.  Don't know how this affects AXK (which wasn't in need of a nerf at all IMO) but this is just one more reason to favor bypass combos over damage combos.

        To be fair, it's kind of nice that my kick:punch damage ratio is 2:1 instead of 5:2, because that odd scale made it difficult to spread damage around without wrecking my prep, but it's also kind of shitty because if I wanted to put forth the effort to count odd and even points I'd have something for it and now it's just "kicks are like two punches!  Even babies can do this!"

        E: Having said that, I haven't tested breaks, just raw damage, I'm working under the probably incorrect assumption that my old formula still works relative to raw damage.
      19. MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,861 Achaean staff
        We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.
        XithAelios
      20. JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Makarios said:
        We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

        You could release the formula in compensation? :)
        image
        DraqoomPraxidesRangorXith
      21. BukariinBukariin Member Posts: 438 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        edited October 2014
        First test:
        5248 health, SCS: 12 punches/7 kicks, DRS: 9 punches/7 kicks.

        Old formula predicted 11 punches/5 kicks in SCS, so you can see from that alone how much more this affects kicks than punches.  I want to believe that base limb health has been upped by something like 150 to account for the extra punch, but nothing in the Classleads indicates that such a thing happened, so it's more like punch damage got nerfed by ~8%.

        Second test:
        3244 health, SCS: 10 punches/6 kicks, DRS: 8 punches/6 kicks

        Old formula predicted 8 punches/3 kicks.  There's been a much more pronounced effect, it seems, on those with lower health.  It looks like punches and kicks now do some (if not all) of their damage as a percentage of max limb health, and that the base limb health has a far larger impact on counting limbs than it used to as a result.

        E: My conclusion overall is that, given kicks do so much less damage and fights are going to drag out longer as a result, DRS will overtake SCS as my preferred stance on three counts: 1) bypass combos are more necessary after this pass of Classleads, 2) harder punches with better damage mitigation will surpass limb balance in importance, and 3) kicks still do odd damage relative to punches and the ratio just got weirder.  It's not 5:2 or 2:1, more like 10:6, which makes limb counting more awkward than ever.
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