Classleads September 2014

Dunn

Jhui made a three if statement offense and I could hit him maybe once every tree cycle while leaning on my offense lol.*

Priest stupid.

*Without rites or spiritwrack going.

Jacen

Not happy at all with limb damage changes. 

Preliminary testing shows that they deviously adjusted the limb damage of each particular attack, as well as multiplied by some reducing factor. It also doesn't appear that proportionality between actual damage and limb damage dealt is holding, unless I'm making  a big mistake in my calculations (definitely possible)

At this point, looks like you're throwing all your numbers out and starting over.

Makarios

Augment won't let you parry when paralysed/entangled now, that was an error. (Also has a telegraphed initiation step now.)

Bukariin

Jacen said:

Not happy at all with limb damage changes. 

Preliminary testing shows that they deviously adjusted the limb damage of each particular attack, as well as multiplied by some reducing factor. It also doesn't appear that proportionality between actual damage and limb damage dealt is holding, unless I'm making  a big mistake in my calculations (definitely possible)

At this point, looks like you're throwing all your numbers out and starting over.

Are you saying that Hammerfists do different limb damage than Spears?

Wouldn't that make my limb counter kind of, uh, a leg counter, or an arm counter, but not both?

Cooper

I haven't tested, but that's not a big deal if it's true. Spear only hits and and hammer only legs. Having didn't damage values just means you have to count differently. 

Jacen

Now that I think about it, target was wearing armor, and armor's linear damage reduction means my numbers aren't correct. Will have to do the testing again.
@Bukariin : Hammerfist is probably still the same as spear. Haven't tested, but I don't see a reason for changing that. What I meant by my post is that, for monk at least, all limb damage numbers are relative to some basepoint, since we can't know an absolute scale of damage. Generally, and for the limb counter I have, that basepoint is unstanced, targeted jab punch. Now, again for monk, the limb damage of the different attacks was strictly proportional to the HP damage of each attack. If a DRS HFP did twice the damage of an unstanced JBP, then the HFP would do twice the limb damage of the unstanced JBP. 

My preliminary findings (which I'm sure are incorrect now) indicated that wasn't true now. Anyways, can probably disregard my original post for the moment, until I or someone has had time to test it under the right conditions. My initial thought is that our limb damage wasn't decreased much, but enough to remove the possibility of a mangle lock, which @Mizik classleaded (FU)

Bukariin

Doesn't look like punches have been modified much - 300 damage is still my base for a punch - but kicks got nerfed hard, from 750 base to 600 base damage.  That's a 20% damage decrease.  Don't know how this affects AXK (which wasn't in need of a nerf at all IMO) but this is just one more reason to favor bypass combos over damage combos.

To be fair, it's kind of nice that my kick:punch damage ratio is 2:1 instead of 5:2, because that odd scale made it difficult to spread damage around without wrecking my prep, but it's also kind of shitty because if I wanted to put forth the effort to count odd and even points I'd have something for it and now it's just "kicks are like two punches!  Even babies can do this!"

E: Having said that, I haven't tested breaks, just raw damage, I'm working under the probably incorrect assumption that my old formula still works relative to raw damage.

Makarios

We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

Jacen

Makarios said:

We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

You could release the formula in compensation?

Bukariin

First test:
5248 health, SCS: 12 punches/7 kicks, DRS: 9 punches/7 kicks.

Old formula predicted 11 punches/5 kicks in SCS, so you can see from that alone how much more this affects kicks than punches.  I want to believe that base limb health has been upped by something like 150 to account for the extra punch, but nothing in the Classleads indicates that such a thing happened, so it's more like punch damage got nerfed by ~8%.

Second test:
3244 health, SCS: 10 punches/6 kicks, DRS: 8 punches/6 kicks

Old formula predicted 8 punches/3 kicks.  There's been a much more pronounced effect, it seems, on those with lower health.  It looks like punches and kicks now do some (if not all) of their damage as a percentage of max limb health, and that the base limb health has a far larger impact on counting limbs than it used to as a result.

E: My conclusion overall is that, given kicks do so much less damage and fights are going to drag out longer as a result, DRS will overtake SCS as my preferred stance on three counts: 1) bypass combos are more necessary after this pass of Classleads, 2) harder punches with better damage mitigation will surpass limb balance in importance, and 3) kicks still do odd damage relative to punches and the ratio just got weirder.  It's not 5:2 or 2:1, more like 10:6, which makes limb counting more awkward than ever.

Terra

Makarios said:

We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

I think you should just change the limb break formula every week to compensate for the OPness of monk. MAKE THEM WORK FOR THEIR KILLS.

Iocun

There should be a survival ability that allows you to switch the limb damage between any two of your own limbs. Without a third party message.

Bukariin

Makarios said:

We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

Can you at the very least confirm or deny that Monk limb attacks now deal some if not all of their damage as a percentage of limb health?

Draqoom

I had a perfect limb counter and finally started using independent attack combos instead of one limb combos, join the mark because I'm feeling like I can get the hang of combat again and then I see this limb damage change and I just facepalm.

But it's ok, because CAT has a reduced balance now. What? Cat? No other stances touched (yet) but Cat gets a change? lol

Xer

Is it really that hard to fix the limb counters? I modified my previous one for DRS, SCS and unstanced in a hour and it's worked on a range of health values from 4k to 8k - for 8 different people. I'm sure I'll find a few mistakes here and there eventually, but I don't think it's too bad. I suppose it's just grunt work, but it's something every limb class needed to do at some point.

Bukariin

Xer said:

Is it really that hard to fix the limb counters? I modified my previous one for DRS, SCS and unstanced in a hour and it's worked on a range of health values from 4k to 8k - for 8 different people. I'm sure I'll find a few mistakes here and there eventually, but I don't think it's too bad.

Test it on people with under 4k health and see how accurate it is.

Cooper

The change is pretty irrelevant to most limb counters because of how necessary rhk is to use and how much faster your prep is when you can disregard parry.

Xer

Also accurate on sub 4k health targets. 

Praxides

Jacen said:

Makarios said:

We are sorry about the inconvenience (re: limb damage), but it pretty much had to happen sooner or later. As a form of consolation, the reason we didn't touch axk quite yet is so we can see how this goes and adjust it around that. So you will probably get something new soon.

You could release the formula in compensation?

I've never really understood this part of classleads, why aren't the numbers given on release? Even if subject to change, it would relieve a lot of confusion.

Jacen

Xer said:

Is it really that hard to fix the limb counters? I modified my previous one for DRS, SCS and unstanced in a hour and it's worked on a range of health values from 4k to 8k - for 8 different people. I'm sure I'll find a few mistakes here and there eventually, but I don't think it's too bad. I suppose it's just grunt work, but it's something every limb class needed to do at some point.

You're also a math god and an ACC fighter, so you've got a good leg up on the rest of us peasants!

Seftin

you guys use limbcounters? Lol

Mizik

Coders get something to do... For 30 minutes.

Cooper

Seftin said:

you guys use limbcounters? Lol

My limb counter has never done anything more than count 1 for punch. People rely entirely too much on them.

Achilles

Bukariin said:

Can Augment also parry while paralyzed?  Otherwise Monks are pretty boned vs. BM

Monks?  I'm wondering how knights are suppose to pull off a double leg break.  Can't they just augment parry the opposite leg on the first leg break?

Talysin

Blujixapug said:

Ernam said:

You keep saying how awesome priest is, and yet I see like... 2 active priests.

I don't agree that there's clear correlation here. Priest is a faction class, changing class is expensive, most people will not change class abruptly solely for PK.

Many people have switched class irrespective of their RP faction. Nowadays it seems that alts are more en vogue. Regardless, we would see more priests around.

Kenway

Well BM's gonna be kinda a bitch to DSB if they're clever now...

EDIT: Slightly looking forward to this, slightly not.

Jacen

Wtf even is augment? Didnt see it in the help file.

Exelethril

Jacen said:

Wtf even is augment? Didnt see it in the help file.

It lets you parry a limb while prone for a duration based on % of shin spent(works with two broken arms) and has a 3.5 second delay before it comes into effect. Also, I think they have a balanceless %-based heal now. 

Sena

So, what does spirituality push do? And what are the new mace stats?

Ada

A guardian angel extends a hand in your direction, and a sudden impact knocks you from your feet.

Yay for priest proning!!