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Comments
Of course, when I teach in Legal English classes, I always start with a joke form the book "Lawyers and other reptiles", but clearly this does not matter, doesn't it?
1. Early days - "Don't be a jerk."
2. Problem - What "being a jerk" means is different to everyone.
3. Clarifications - People asked for clarifications on specific situations.
4. More clarifications - More clarifications requested by players.
5 - 198. Yet more clarifications requested by players, ad nauseum, leading to said enormous HELP PK document and rules lawyering.
199. People complain about too many specific rules.
200. We go back to "Don't be a jerk", more or less.
201. Problem - What "being a jerk" mean is different for everyone.
202. Clarifications at request of players.
203. You can see where this is going.
So yeah, we're definitely not going to do the same thing again.
"You're being a jerk."
"No I'm not."
I'd like, of course, for there to be a single, one-page HELP file that defines the PK rules so succinctly that any disagreement can be fixed merely by pointing to it, but since everybody is a PK lawyer these days you're still going to end up with disagreements.
Really, this is more the fault of bad apples who are so desperate to kill things that won't fight back than faulty rules or rule makers.
People say you shouldn't count PKs like that because its just like the old system, but if I defile a shrine and think I've got one, maybe two deaths coming to me, and @Jovolo thinks he can PK me for 2 weeks, then... there's a problem.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
I propose an alternative rule.
If you must be a bastard, be a magnificent one.
Or, in more boring terms, be a jerk ICly if it makes sense, as long as your OOC goal is to entertain other players. If they're a hardcore PvPer, this might involve PvP shenanigans, sure, but not everyone is a hardcore PvPer. For example, if they're a hardcore roleplayer who cares little for PvP, entertaining them might require dialogue and emoting and roleplaying, or something like that.
If you cannot do that, if you cannot even try to do that, then you surely cannot expect to be entertained in return.
ETA: People are far too quick to dismiss the effect that PK has on the landscape of the game and its overarching story. Achaea is a world whose history is incredibly bloody and ridden with conflict. A lot of people who call themselves roleplayers tend not to involve themselves in any sort of major conflict-driven plots, and approach Achaea as more of a one-player game where the NPCs in the tavern just have really great AI.
The best roleplayers are people like Rho, Wulfen and Flair, who put themselves out there to drive often PK-centric conflict storylines that enliven the game world and keep everybody involved. If somebody interrupts a Cyrenian festival and kills a bunch of people in an effort to drive legitimate conflict, that is not a bad thing. Of course, it's up to the instigators to make sure that there is something beyond "bored lol gonna pk u" driving what they're doing, but extended and bloody conflict is what Achaea is based on, and what keeps it fresh and interesting.
You don't need to be Jhui to participate in this, but you do need to understand and accept that dying is part of the game, and it is not something to be feared or policed by frivolous issues and endless PK rules.
One situation drives conflict. The other is just being a jerk.
The bottom line is that there are all kinds of wonderful roleplay justifications to attack someone. Some of these are even encouraged through IC mechanisms like writs, bounties, and the Mark system. The best may be conflict-driven plots, but at the heart of all of them should be a simple understanding:
We're all players in a game. When someone stops enjoying the game because of us (maybe they're getting attacked constantly, even if it is justified, or they're having to deal with a slew of frivolous issues, etc.) , we should be a little more retrospect.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
The PKer can probably find plenty of other PK-oriented players to fight, and the non-com can probably find plenty of other roleplayers to roleplay with.
That said, plenty of non-combatants do try to get into combat from what I've seen.
Also, I think dismissing people's preferences is kind of weak and in poor taste.
I do agree that people should not just issue over dumb things. Even if you don't really have an IC recourse, you could always politely ask the other person OOCly not to attack you or whatever and see how that goes before outright issuing them. I'm almost positive just about no one enjoys dealing with issues - I somewhat doubt even the admins like dealing with anything other than perhaps answering ISSUE ME-esque questions (and even those likely require a special, especially helpful personality to enjoy answering, I'm sure!).
This, though, is the main argument I'm trying to encapsulate: if you play the game with the mindset of "Defiled once... one death. Raided them, now I'll add one more death to the tally. I... I died THREE TIMES?!" That doesn't feel appropriate for an organic, living and breathing roleplay world. I know if I adopted that attitude I would struggle to interact with other orgs altogether.
Harassment is harassment. If someone comes and PK's you consistently for a week or even longer, without ample reasoning and interaction, then you have a problem. Fine, ask an admin for advice via ISSUE ME. Listen to them, and then take a leaf out of HELP COMMON SENSE.
What I mean by that is people who, with no real proof that someone is involved in something, attack them anyways. This is more often an issue in smaller scale (1 v 1 jumps, etc) conflict because it's generally very obvious who's instigating what when the actual facts are known. Larger scale raids, while there is an attempt to mitigate killing the uninvolved people usually, it's very difficult to know if that person who normally doesn't fight that's sitting with the defending group is just sitting there because they happened to be passing through or if they're the reason bombs are flying into the room, etc.
If you couldn't hypothetically go into your logs (not saying actual logged, I'm saying occurred where you saw it), point to a line of text, and say "This, this is why I'm trying to kill them," you're probably in the wrong. Contracts/writs/bounties, when you accept them, fulfill this kind of thing, and the onus for 'knowing' rests on whoever posted them. Hearing about someone doing something to a friend of yours doesn't while you were offline.
This covers your ass in the case of an issue too, which is one of the reasons I've never been punished for one. If you get issued, you can just go "This is the situation I saw that led me to attack them." Provide an approximate time and the people in charge can generally find whatever it was that you saw and you'll be in the clear.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
Agreed, or the confusion that they don't deserve to be PKd.
I'd like to see a change to writs that simply adds a writ counter to the CONTRACTS screen. Then contracts won't show (letting the person know the writ is yielded but not who has the contract obviously). Bounties will show (although not who holds it, just the timing). Writs that can be acted on will and their remaining time will at least be understood by the defiler so there is no confusion as to why someone is attacking them a RL week after the fact.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
I don't know if you get to see these yourself very frequently, but dude, you absolutely gotta see the way the absurd system is being used on a practical level right now. Without tangible examples of some of the stuff players have to deal with, this discussion isn't going to be productive. The pendulum is really swinging back in the direction of issuing over *everything.* I don't know if it is because issues are being upheld or because issuers aren't being told this is out of line with the PK rules or what, but there's something seriously out of whack.
This was over one attack, which was unsuccessful - I ran out of a curative against someone who was fighting back pretty well and then I ran. I had attacked him because we were having an antagonistic conversation and I told him I had heard enough and that continuing to taunt would result in my dirk slitting his throat. After I ran away from that fight, he said I had no cause and I told him in a tell marked with \\ that "cause" as it existed under the old PK rules doesn't exist anymore. The near-immediate reaction?
"This person, who did not ask for permission to speak insanely with me, has been harassing me in an
Like, what? I'm harassing him OOCly, threatening and pursuing him in and out of character? Sarapis, clearly the message you have been carrying in this thread has just not translated for a significant number of people in-game. I think there needs to be some better communication from the Garden around this to folks...or just slap frivolous issues upside the head with disfavours, too. "Please have this gnat dealt with, thankyou" - like issues are some sort of instant weapon you assume will work out in your favor.
(P.S. - I assume posting this is fine bc AFAIK the rule is you can't identify people in issues, and I've stripped this of identifying information, but I looked and couldn't find the rules pinned to the forums anywhere so please delete if necessary.)
If this story repeated itself multiple times (3+, at least), and you were the one who provoked the argument/aggressive action each time, that would be when filing an issue might be justified (since talking to you about it OOC is highly discouraged).
Just to reiterate, he shouldn't have issued in this case, but that doesn't make it frivolous. He simply needs to re-read the PK rules and make more of an attempt to retaliate for wrong-doings in-character before asking the admin for help.
I don't think this issue would take more than 30 seconds for an admin to read and dismiss, with the same recommendation to the issuing player that I made above (read the rules). While this unnecessary issue could have been avoided, I really don't see it as the travesty that the forum community makes it into. I would expect all new players and midbies to go through a learning curve of when things like retaliation, contracts, and issues are appropriate, as they start getting into PK.
I would also have to recommend that you employ the following logic. If the player issued you for what you did, you should absolutely make the assumption that regardless of legality, your attack on his character was entirely unwelcome. Regardless of whether or not the issue itself has merit, you should probably stop attacking him, without 100% clear, justified in-character reason to do so. IMO, continuing to aggressively push on people who have made it known that your attacks are unwelcome, particularly after (or because) they issued you, is griefing. I don't think you're doing that, but I certainly do see it often enough.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
When someone sends out an issue the resolution that occurs is a basic math problem in assessing an individual from a clear state of mind, which is:
Common sense - is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things, which is shared by nearly all people, and can be reasonably expected of nearly all people without any need for debate.
PLUS
Emotion - a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others.
DIVIDED BY
Customer service - a series of activities designed to enhance the level of customer satisfaction – that is, the feeling that a product or service has met the customer expectation.
I truly feel the current HELP PK is cut and dry. All of this is subjective and no story is told the same from both sides. Issues will exist so long as people have issues. Customer satisfaction is the dividing line and nobody is going to remove customer service that enjoys having customers. You could write a tome of the ages containing pk laws and all that is going to do is encourage people to exploit loopholes.
I PK people that are actively involved in doing something against me, and I expect to be PK'd if I am doing something that is acting against the beliefs of another player. The whole rulebook thing (even in it's current state) seems dumb to me. Sometimes you die, sometimes you kill people, no reason to force people to have revenge when they can just continue happily with their lives and pretend it never happened.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important