Eleusis vs Mhaldor, the Good and the Bad!

Shirszae

Sorry, but I can't take a comparison of irl military service to one in a game seriously. Also, the idea of all cities being in total war all the time is ridiculous, and would make for a lot of tediousness. Sure, it seems cool in the moment, but it seems cool precisely because it is not the case. 

Trey

Herenicus said:

 

Austere

Enough of this rl military talk,  I thought everyone was declaring war on Ashtan? 

Aktillum

Shirszae said:

Also, the idea of all cities being in total war all the time is ridiculous, and would make for a lot of tediousness. Sure, it seems cool in the moment, but it seems cool precisely because it is not the case. 

Why would it be ridiculous? This game revolves around factions that are ideologically opposed to one another. The cities are constantly at war regardless of mutually sanctioned hostilities. What changes during war-time, honestly? Mhaldor raids Eleusis, Ashtan raids Targossas whether or not there is an official war. So tell me, what exactly does war change?

Honestly, they should delete city relations, and just have enlisted soldiers be open PK to each other all the time. At least people would re-consider enlisting, and not complain about a war from start to finish.

Rangor

So that mhaldor vs ashtan.

Austere

Add much as I like @Aktillum‌ 's idea,  I give it a month before every city but one(with the exception of a few key players per city [Rangor comes to mind]) is griefed out of being soldiers.  Would then just be a superficial honours line for that city.  Would prefer if people tried to rp out conflict more and wars actually became a reoccurring thing over something static like another mark system without contacts. 

Aktillum

@Austere Agree but, its already a superficial honours line. People have this strange idea that being an enlisted soldier means you are a raid defender and not, y'know, the open PK target during wartime it actually means.

Austere

Shit,  tell that to any city trying to sanction a raid.  If you are a soldier in city,  you are gonna get hit after it is obvious there is raid going on.  Whether that is right or wrong of raiders,  that is what happens.

Jacen

Aktillum said:

@Austere Agree but, its already a superficial honours line. People have this strange idea that being an enlisted soldier means you are a raid defender and not, y'know, the open PK target during wartime it actually means.

Well, there's also the point that not being a soldier and defending a raid is, in some amount, "metagaming" because those deaths won't charge the raider's tank. Or so the help file reads. So being a raid defender certainly qualifies one to be a soldier; the whole city destruction system is built around that premise.

Aktillum

Sounds like Achaea needs military branches, like being able to join the city guard for defense reasons, or joining the army if you're 100% gung-ho about killing enemies.

Jacen

I still disagree though, on some level. I don't think that dipping your toe in the water of organizational conflict should make you Open PK. It really makes it impossible for the smaller, lesser skilled group to get into conflict in the first place.

Aktillum

Jacen said:

I still disagree though, on some level. I don't think that dipping your toe in the water of organizational conflict should make you Open PK. It really makes it impossible for the smaller, lesser skilled group to get into conflict in the first place.

I don't think enlisting as a soldier should be considered "dipping your toe in the water of organizational conflict". It should be considered diving into the deep end. A city guard could be the toe-dipping.

There are plenty of RL countries that have home defense forces, like paramilitary police, but no standing army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces#Countries_with_no_standing_army_but_limited_military

Relevant note from above links: Japan is not included in this list because, while the country may officially have no military according to Article 9 of its Constitution, it does have the Japan Self-Defense Forces, a military force for national territory defence that may only be deployed outside Japan for UN peacekeeping missions.

So, the way it could work in Achaea: You enlist in the city guard for home defense and peace-keeping. You enjoy the perks of no XP loss inside your city, dismantling bombs inside your city, etc.

However, if war breaks out, you enlist as a soldier only if you want to actively engage in city raiding, arming tanks, and being open PK to other soldiers.

Saeva

I'm pretty sure if you want open PK all day every day you join the Mark. Isn't that the point?

Aktillum

Saeva said:

I'm pretty sure if you want open PK all day every day you join the Mark. Isn't that the point?

That makes you open PK to everyone, everywhere. What I'm suggesting is letting you belong to the city guard so you can defend your city without worrying about being open PK, or enlisting as a soldier and actively serving on the front-lines as an open PK target for other soldiers.

Hyperlith

Pardon me for being very late to the party, but it does it bother ANYBODY to see org logs posted here? Just seems rather tactless to throw sometimes worthless, sometimes way-too-revealing information to those who are not otherwise privy to the info.
(Yeah yeah, I know, I could make an alt, blah blah. So go make an alt!)

Also, in regards to why people join or quit the Achaean cities' armies, it's important to remember that for a lot of people, they joined with no context of how the war construct operates until recently. It would be frivolous now to do so, but maybe a rude awakening given how the early versions of War was not noteworthy.

Hyperlith

Jarrod said:

We killed 72 guards in a single raid when Tanris retired as Overseer...

@Jarrod @Jhui @Dunn postmortem?

Santar

Org logs, especially city logs aren't private info. Should just assume that everyone in the game has access to all city logs at all times. 

Hyperlith

Santar said:

Org logs, especially city logs aren't private info. Should just assume that everyone in the game has access to all city logs at all times. 

Spoon-feeding them to the masses seems unnecessary. I'm not implying a privacy issue; I'm disappointed to see them displayed in this fashion (let's say, ruining the mystery and mystique).

Herenicus

Rangor said:

So that mhaldor vs ashtan.

We will be hating them for Christmas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0zBZ6zL_qw

Dunn

Christmas 2010. Never forget.

@Jarrod @Tanris @Mizik @Triak

Mishgul

I see from Mizik's forum profile picture that he changed class again.

Rangor

Aktillum said:

@Austere Agree but, its already a superficial honours line. People have this strange idea that being an enlisted soldier means you are a raid defender and not, y'know, the open PK target during wartime it actually means.

Totally means more than that in eleusis! Gotta be in the army to be a ranger.

Iuneos

Melodie

Better than how Mhaldor starts out!


P.S. - I really don't suggest searching for 'maggots' with safesearch off on google, I had to gag a few times before I found an appropriate picture.

Ulrike

Maggots own. They do things like debride wounds and show us how long the murder victim's been dead.

They also serve as excellent human shields guinea pigs uhhh, rat hunters.

Athelas

@Melodie Those aren't maggots. They are beetle larva

Melodie

Google lied to me then.

Tharvis

Melodie said:

Google lied to me then.

google does not lie! Google is Truth.

Athelas

@Tharvis Google doesn't lie, because google doesn't say anything other than: "We believe you might find an answer to your query at one of the following locations.", while pointing to a whole host of places that might be relevant to your search.

@Melodie Yea, I just had to do that unsafe search. Now my eyes are burning! What has been seen can not be unseen.

Nim

I searched for maggots and I thought safesearch was off. I-is there a second level of safesearch I have to turn off? Or am I just too far gone? :c