What Happened To You Today?

Minifie

Fine, logged in after some IRL stuff kept me busy, filed some bounties, was given 2 new outfits (thank you @eliana and @Tilia, now to play more dress up!) then proceeded to comfortably talk to people for a while. Still have NFI what a Cholla'Yi is though.

Puxi

It's Cholla'Yo

Tysandr

Tahquil said:

Whose 7 a.m. though?

Always bleepin 7 am here.

Minifie

Puxi said:

It's Cholla'Yo

Cholla’huh?

Rangor

Reyson said:

Kiet said:

obv, we were the ones uprooting totems at 7 am and then goinrg against our own CL (behind his back? I'm not sure, he might've just been clueless) re: terms for peace.

but hey, eleusis war deleted forest defs and gave us vivify, so it's not like I even consider it a bad thing. this also hasn't escalated to even a tenth of what that war escalated to, I just find it funny that we see similarly puzzling logic.

Give it up, dude. Everyone knows everything's always Mhaldor's fault. Let's get back to eating puppies!

I think everything that happened IG with regards to the Eleusis/Mhaldor forest war thing made perfectly good sense and was lots of fun. The mechanical changes that came out of it were good, and Vivify/Exterminate is now in a much better place than it used to be. What wasn't fun was the attitude of a few Mhaldorians who felt it as their holy mission to make the players on the other side regret wanting to play against/with them. (or that's the impression we got anyways) We see that repeating itself now. I'm fairly sure there were Eleusians who displayed rather poor attitude when it came to loosing a war as well, and that was I'm sure quite annoying to the Mhaldorian players.

Almost everyone is a fan of the conflict, the storyline, Mhaldor crushing Hashan in response to IG actions is good! Be it through big raids, guard killing or whatever. The problem arises when a few people from either side tries to make the people you're playing against/with not want to play with you at all by being incredibly distasteful in and out of the game.

It has to be at least somewhat enjoyable for both sides, through victory and defeat. There will always be poor losers and terrible winners though.

Melodie

Minifie said:

Puxi said:

It's Cholla'Yo

Cholla’huh?

I'm going to red square both of you, metagaming be damned.

[Deleted User]

Rangor said:

Loose

verb

gerund or present participle: loosing

1. set free; release.
   ->Rangor is good at loosing people's sanity from them.
   
   

Lose

verb

gerund or present participle: losing

1. be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something).

   ->Your constant misuse of the word assists me in losing my sanity.
   
   

You're better than this! You're not Proficy!
 

Rangor

Pyori said:

Rangor said:

Loose

verb

gerund or present participle: loosing

1. set free; release.
   ->Rangor is good at loosing people's sanity from them.
   
   

Lose

verb

gerund or present participle: losing

1. be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something).

   ->Your constant misuse of the word assists me in losing my sanity.
   
   

You're better than this! You're not Proficy!
 

You sound like my english teacher! You're not the boss of me! shut up!

Tahquil

I think you mean she's not the boose of you.

Minifie

@Proficy is a bro, randomly stealing my damn children.

Aegoth

Asmodron said:

Kiet said:

Asmodron said:

Well there's the issue then, remove deathsights pinging on the app :P.

I'm not going to point fingers but when you see 3 seasoned fighters login in roughly the same timeframe when you are raiding..you're going to start to wonder.

you know people log in throughout the day normally and some people are just phased or on annwyn, right

Asmodron said:

Cooper said:

It was fun watching Mhaldor try to raid Hashan, and get asked to leave OOCly because "no one was around to defend" (there were tons around), only to find them raiding Targ 30 minutes later.

Oh no, that's different. We just dont want to play with you

don't make public posts, shouts, raids, yells, wear titles belligerently, etc.  to provoke it, then seriously, how hard is it to get that. 

Frankly conflict can only come from 2 sides. If 1 side has been behaving in a way that seems toxic, then you would simply lose the respect of the other to even engage you.

Perhaps you, and certain other Hashanites, should consider being less toxic than you have been, then. Just a thought!

Caelan

Minifie said:

Puxi said:

It's Cholla'Yo

Cholla’huh?

      

Kiet

Rangor said:

Reyson said:

Kiet said:

obv, we were the ones uprooting totems at 7 am and then goinrg against our own CL (behind his back? I'm not sure, he might've just been clueless) re: terms for peace.

but hey, eleusis war deleted forest defs and gave us vivify, so it's not like I even consider it a bad thing. this also hasn't escalated to even a tenth of what that war escalated to, I just find it funny that we see similarly puzzling logic.

Give it up, dude. Everyone knows everything's always Mhaldor's fault. Let's get back to eating puppies!

I think everything that happened IG with regards to the Eleusis/Mhaldor forest war thing made perfectly good sense and was lots of fun. The mechanical changes that came out of it were good, and Vivify/Exterminate is now in a much better place than it used to be. What wasn't fun was the attitude of a few Mhaldorians who felt it as their holy mission to make the players on the other side regret wanting to play against/with them. (or that's the impression we got anyways) We see that repeating itself now. I'm fairly sure there were Eleusians who displayed rather poor attitude when it came to loosing a war as well, and that was I'm sure quite annoying to the Mhaldorian players.

Almost everyone is a fan of the conflict, the storyline, Mhaldor crushing Hashan in response to IG actions is good! Be it through big raids, guard killing or whatever. The problem arises when a few people from either side tries to make the people you're playing against/with not want to play with you at all by being incredibly distasteful in and out of the game.

It has to be at least somewhat enjoyable for both sides, through victory and defeat. There will always be poor losers and terrible winners though.

That's fair, and I'm sure there's lots of people on every faction that are like that.

From my perspective, and a lot of other people, the war was getting boring by like week 1/2, because it was a one-sided stomp except for the couple of hours you were online in the morning. Despite that, Andraste/Grewhatever kept doing the same shit, and when we tried to negotiate peace there was like 5 different eleusians trying to negotiate the peace and no one was on the same page. All this while several eleusians continued to claim the war was unprovoked and saying it was all just random griefing or w/e.

That's why actions escalated as they did--to try and force a concede. It's the same reason Targ guard bashed us during the war before last, because the shit was dragging on too long and someone had to accept defeat (because, sadly, our war system is kind of a joke in that if no one accepts defeat it has to go on forever).

Like I said, we've been extremely light on Hashan, especially in comparison to that. I'm sure Hashan doesn't see it this way because they've never been in an all-out war, and that's fine. It's just baffling to see people claiming leaving in 15 minutes of no response as being griefy, as is the refusal to find the connection between  "we guard them when they bring 3-5 people" and "they bring more people to start each time."

What reminds me of the Eleusis war is to refuse to acknowledge things have at all escalated because of Hashan's actions. I know you understood that in Eleusis, but several people did not. IT was a 'random' war that Mhaldor started out of boredom and to grief everyone out of the game in their head, and it seems Hashan has this same attitude.

If people gank me/pk me for thieving, I understand it was for thieving. I don't start to cry about being griefed.

Obv, there's elements of people yelling shit talk and posting on forums angry at each other that contribute to how people feel, too.

Mathilda

So...Hashan just has to fade back into obscurity. Yay!

Kiet

Yes, obviously the only choices are 'fade into obscurity' or 'call out military cities in public and then defend in a way that encourages them to bring more people.' Very reasonable.

Either way, Hashan's already getting a lot less attention militarily, so it seems like things'll work out.

Aralaya

You know, whether someone is right or wrong in an argument (In a thread the argument shouldn't be in anyway) can we at least avoid blatant Ad Hominem >.>

Kiet

Arguing in bad faith is a million times worse than that, it's just that one's easier to recognize.

Nazihk

Hashan needs to stop talking shit to people who will happily wreck them, or they need to suck it up and get good. 

Also, stop acting like Hashan's only choices are "no city cause or motivation" or "giving Ashtan shit over public posts". There are ways to foster a city identity other than public posts that sum up as "bring it, bitches".

Aralaya

Kiet said:

Arguing in bad faith is a million times worse than that, it's just that one's easier to recognize.

Whether it's worse or not, Ad Hominem does absolutely nothing for the argument and only leads to admin having to shut it down because we can't just discuss things civilly.

Reyson

I don't think you know what ad hominem means. Criticising someone's opinion (disagreeing) =/= a personal attack. Kiet never attacked Mathilda's person, only her opinion. He was sarcastic, to be sure, but that's also not an ad hominem attack. 

Aralaya

Reyson said:

I don't think you know what ad hominem means. Criticising someone's opinion (disagreeing) =/= a personal attack. Kiet never attacked Mathilda's person, only her opinion. He was sarcastic, to be sure, but that's also not an ad hominem attack. 

He edited his post. There was blatant Ad Hominem in it before. Even if he didn't though, the fact that it comes up at all is stupid.

Nazihk

To be fair, Mathilda's posts on the subject lately have been spectacularly awful.

Aralaya

Whether someone is literally as wrong as they can possibly be or they are completely right, you don't have to attack them for it. Point out issues in they argument sure, but insulting them goes nowhere.

Mathilda

Let's be honest, factional identity is strongly defined by how it opposes the rest. Good and Evil are fantastic because they are direct opposites to one another. If Hashan, as it embraces the Night/Darkness identity, doesn't do so in a way that sets it against other factions, then what even is the point?

The solution isn't to bully Hashan into diluting itself again. The solution is for the other factions to recognize that a strong Hashani identity is good for the game as a whole, and work on ways to fight them without always seeking to break their spirit. This is not what is happening.

Rekhyr

Ship ready and first castoff

Minifie

Mathilda said:

Let's be honest, factional identity is strongly defined by how it opposes the rest. Good and Evil are fantastic because they are direct opposites to one another. If Hashan, as it embraces the Night/Darkness identity, doesn't do so in a way that sets it against other factions, then what even is the point?

The solution isn't to bully Hashan into diluting itself again. The solution is for the other factions to recognize that a strong Hashani identity is good for the game as a whole, and work on ways to fight them without always seeking to break their spirit. This is not what is happening.

At no point do we raid hashan to break their spirit, at no point do we grief them into obscurity and prepare to continue doing so until they no longer wish to log in. If the game is to thrive having an EVIL faction, said faction has to actually do EVIL things IC, and progress the world stage in such a way. Mhaldor has had times of being so god damn tiny that jhui could solo raid it, so has targossas, shallam, hashan and cyrene. Hashan currently has the opportunity to take what they are building and run with it, or basically throw their hands in the air and give up because they got scuffed a few too many times and it's just "too hard". 

Hashan wants to be a big role, and not just Cyrene 2.0, then they have to take the cuts, bruises and wounds now, and continue to lick them, recover, and push back. The more  they continue to do this the stronger their identity grows against fading away again. If they give up and let it fade, it was never strong enough to build upon. If they continue to put block upon block onto this foundation, and watch it flourish, even if the building gets knocked down over and over, they will become a force, and people will join it, but only if THEY put the effort in to rebuild, not expect others to afk around to give them wins. Earn the stripes, and the City will foothold with their current identity, otherwise, they'll have to try again.

Hashan's best bet right now is to engage every fight, and retaliate back at every opportunity. Don't get let down over a few losses, delegate more around for people to learn and lead, and get more people interested. I keep seeing new names pop up I have to charge and bounty for raiding, don't let that stop. Keep getting people interested and pushing harder and harder, and the city will break through.

Nazihk

Mathilda said:

Let's be honest, factional identity is strongly defined by how it opposes the rest. Good and Evil are fantastic because they are direct opposites to one another. If Hashan, as it embraces the Night/Darkness identity, doesn't do so in a way that sets it against other factions, then what even is the point?

The solution isn't to bully Hashan into diluting itself again. The solution is for the other factions to recognize that a strong Hashani identity is good for the game as a whole, and work on ways to fight them without always seeking to break their spirit. This is not what is happening.

Here's the thing.

What Hashan should be trying to do is start things up like the Darkenwood conflict they had going with Eleusis for a while last year. Small scale things that can easily be kept relatively isolated.

What they should not be doing is throwing rocks at the fucking bear and then whining when it mauls them.

Nazihk

Edit: DOUBLEPOST! 

Kiet

Good and Evil aren't actually direct opposites in-game and thinking they are kind of betrays you don't understand either one of them very much.

Aegoth

Minifie pretty much said what needs to be said.

This bitching about being raided by people like Calira and Asmodron (you're the fucking CL man, come on) does nothing but hurt Hashan, and make it look like the joke it's been for so long. "If you play fair, then we'll fight!" is the mentality a kindetgarten teacher tells little children to take. Put your big boy pants on, grab that 40+ CWHO and go get destroyed (or kick our asses!). Complaining and making passive aggressive remarks about how mean Mhaldor is will just see Hashan fail for the second time since UW wars.