What Happened To You Today?

Mathilda

The playerbase of Hashan isn't like Targossas's or Mhaldor's. A significant portion of them are averse to fighting because all they see are constant losses. If we were talking about Targ or Mdor, losses would just fuel a desire to hit back because that's the kind of players those two cities have. But this is Hashan, and in a fight/flight scenario they would usually choose flight because they see insurmountable odds more easily than golden opportunities. 

Smallscale conflict might work, but as I'm sure everyone is aware, there's been a rising tendency for outside forces to insert themselves in conflict their faction isn't a part of for killz and lulz. Not shading anyone specific, mind, we all know Targ/Mdor/Ashtan have done it.

Aegoth

Mathilda said:

The playerbase of Hashan isn't like Targossas's or Mhaldor's. A significant portion of them are averse to fighting because all they see are constant losses. If we were talking about Targ or Mdor, losses would just fuel a desire to hit back because that's the kind of players those two cities have. But this is Hashan, and in a fight/flight scenario they would usually choose flight because they see insurmountable odds more easily than golden opportunities. 

Smallscale conflict might work, but as I'm sure everyone is aware, there's been a rising tendency for outside forces to insert themselves in conflict their faction isn't a part of for killz and lulz. Not shading anyone specific, mind, we all know Targ/Mdor/Ashtan have done it.

What? No. There is absolutely 0 reason for Hashan to adopt this minsdset in any way. This is a cop out, and just plays into a sad victim mentality of self fulfilling prophesy. Stop accepting that Hashan is weak and chooses flight over fight. Stop ENCOURAGING it. You are more toxic than i could ever hope to be simply because you seem to want s badly for this weak, pitiful worldview of Hashan to prevail. Get the fuck out of this discussion with your negativity

Tahquil

I’ll just point out that factions aren’t strongly defined by what they oppose but the interactions people have. 

If your main mouthpieces are whiny bitches then your faction is going to appear weak and snivelling. If you’ve got a massive cock-gobbling megacunt wanking himself publicly over his superiority.... unfortunately that opinion is going to bleed over into how people see that faction (and others in it even if they don’t deserve it).

Maybe Hashan needs to step back, maybe it doesn’t. I would sure like to know more about this scholarly research side of it. (And don’t you dare tell me ‘join Hashan lol’, if your not promoting your factional identity public you may as well be a clan)

Kiet

I feel like 'science' and 'scholar' isn't good enough of a theme for a faction, though this is kind of a tangent. Ashtan and Mhaldor and Targossas all have some kind of scholarship or science theme going on for them in bigger and lesser ways. It's like taking up 'ritualism' as an identity--half the game already does that, what's the point?

This isn't to say Hashan should give up, just that they'll need something more ideological than that, imo. Which can develop on its own, of course.

Austere

Mathilda said:

The playerbase of Hashan isn't like Targossas's or Mhaldor's. A significant portion of them are averse to fighting because all they see are constant losses. If we were talking about Targ or Mdor, losses would just fuel a desire to hit back because that's the kind of players those two cities have. But this is Hashan, and in a fight/flight scenario they would usually choose flight because they see insurmountable odds more easily than golden opportunities. 

Smallscale conflict might work, but as I'm sure everyone is aware, there's been a rising tendency for outside forces to insert themselves in conflict their faction isn't a part of for killz and lulz. Not shading anyone specific, mind, we all know Targ/Mdor/Ashtan have done it.

When was the last time a faction injected themselves into your conflict for the purpose of killing you? Personally, I've attacked Mhaldorians and Targossians in Hashan for the soul purpose of attacking Targossians and Mhaldorians. Hell, I've probably removed more raiders in Hashan than half of Hashan. I guarantee the three factions have denied each other more tanks in Hashan than you guys have disarmed.

Less than three days ago, a Hashani interfered in a small scale Ashtani raid in Eleusis(by small I mean 2v11). You don't get to complain about x faction doing x if you're going to allow your citizens to do likewise.  This isn't even a complaint. We got ours.  

Ehene

I would love for Hashan to show off the scholarly research side, but nobody wants to actually RP scholarly research. I have been busting my ass trying to motivate people to DO something and we have nothing, or almost nothing, to show for it. Nobody wants to RP school. I mean, I do, but I’m a huge nerd. I built a library. I designed a school. But I and the handful of people like me can’t carry what is supposed to be a large aspect of a factional identity on our own. At the very least, that’s what it feels like to me.

I know this isn’t Rants but I needed to get this off my chest.

Rangor

Ehene said:

I would love for Hashan to show off the scholarly research side, but nobody wants to actually RP scholarly research. I have been busting my ass trying to motivate people to DO something and we have nothing, or almost nothing, to show for it. Nobody wants to RP school. I mean, I do, but I’m a huge nerd. I built a library. I designed a school. But I and the handful of people like me can’t carry what is supposed to be a large aspect of a factional identity on our own. At the very least, that’s what it feels like to me.

I know this isn’t Rants but I needed to get this off my chest.

I think many people feel this way in all the factions. You always need to have someone who's willing to play the game master role in a city, but most just want to follow, interact and play along with what is happening. So make sure you are enjoying what you are doing.

Kiet

Ehene said:

I would love for Hashan to show off the scholarly research side, but nobody wants to actually RP scholarly research. I have been busting my ass trying to motivate people to DO something and we have nothing, or almost nothing, to show for it. Nobody wants to RP school. I mean, I do, but I’m a huge nerd. I built a library. I designed a school. But I and the handful of people like me can’t carry what is supposed to be a large aspect of a factional identity on our own. At the very least, that’s what it feels like to me.

I know this isn’t Rants but I needed to get this off my chest.

Yeah, that's tough. Ashtan/Mhaldor (and Targ? idk them as well in this area), even Cyrene,  have a big contingent of people (rip krypton) who actually RP scholars, write books, reward scholarly work, etc. People are probably going to join one of those if they want to be scholars, instead.

Keorin

Minifie said:

Hashan wants to be a big role, and not just Cyrene 2.0, then they have to take the cuts, bruises and wounds now, and continue to lick them, recover, and push back. The more  they continue to do this the stronger their identity grows against fading away again. If they give up and let it fade, it was never strong enough to build upon. If they continue to put block upon block onto this foundation, and watch it flourish, even if the building gets knocked down over and over, they will become a force, and people will join it, but only if THEY put the effort in to rebuild, not expect others to afk around to give them wins. Earn the stripes, and the City will foothold with their current identity, otherwise, they'll have to try again.

Not gunna say that Hashan's been handling this all great or anything, but I think that this is a pretty crummy attitude to take when it comes to a game like this. Identity and community are one of the hardest things to build, and pvp aptitude is only a small part of a larger factional identity (and is also damned hard to build up). We'd all like to see Hashan have a stronger faction, but claiming that they need to undergo some sort of trial by fire to earn an identity strikes me as you being rather ignorant or callous to how playing in a smaller faction actually goes.

People complain that Hashan doesn't make its identity clear, and so they make public newsposts to help distinguish themselves from other factions, but that's apparently a reason to be repeatedly raided. People complain that Hashan -not- having a strong identity is why their fighters leave, and now people are saying that not having enough fighters is a reason why they should be less public about their efforts at building up a faction. Responding to provocation is certainly understandable, but belligerence between cities is a pretty ingrained part of factional roleplay. I'm not sure why people need to make a bigger deal about it then when Mhaldor, Ashtan, or Targossas make posts yelling at other factions for being bad and wrong.

Jonathin

Came back to see what was going on.
Saw this.

I'm sorry I retired and that y'all can't just suck it up. I knew that the raids were gonna be bad when I started posting to Hashan and public. Quit whining and start winning. Hashan didn't start moving forward until it had someone step up and say "no, I don't like where this city is headed, let's change it."

I will freely admit that I had very little to do with the actual documents themselves, but it's super disappointing to come back to see the Seneschal whining about raids. So you get raided 1, 2, 3 times in a day. Big deal. If you don't want to defend, go about your business and let them kill guards. It doesn't hurt you. 

If the fatigue is setting in, embrace it and feed the tank. That's what I did for Ashtan when we wanted to stop defending rather than sit there waiting for the tank to charge.

Asmodron, the one thing you need to learn about being CL is that it's no about what you want, it's about what you appear to want. Positive reinforcement goes a lot further than complaining that the odds aren't fair. Suck it up, put a smile on, and laugh at the destruction.

Minifie

Keorin said:

Minifie said:

Hashan wants to be a big role, and not just Cyrene 2.0, then they have to take the cuts, bruises and wounds now, and continue to lick them, recover, and push back. The more  they continue to do this the stronger their identity grows against fading away again. If they give up and let it fade, it was never strong enough to build upon. If they continue to put block upon block onto this foundation, and watch it flourish, even if the building gets knocked down over and over, they will become a force, and people will join it, but only if THEY put the effort in to rebuild, not expect others to afk around to give them wins. Earn the stripes, and the City will foothold with their current identity, otherwise, they'll have to try again.

Not gunna say that Hashan's been handling this all great or anything, but I think that this is a pretty crummy attitude to take when it comes to a game like this. Identity and community are one of the hardest things to build, and pvp aptitude is only a small part of a larger factional identity (and is also damned hard to build up). We'd all like to see Hashan have a stronger faction, but claiming that they need to undergo some sort of trial by fire to earn an identity strikes me as you being rather ignorant or callous to how playing in a smaller faction actually goes.

People complain that Hashan doesn't make its identity clear, and so they make public newsposts to help distinguish themselves from other factions, but that's apparently a reason to be repeatedly raided. People complain that Hashan -not- having a strong identity is why their fighters leave, and now people are saying that not having enough fighters is a reason why they should be less public about their efforts at building up a faction. Responding to provocation is certainly understandable, but belligerence between cities is a pretty ingrained part of factional roleplay. I'm not sure why people need to make a bigger deal about it then when Mhaldor, Ashtan, or Targossas make posts yelling at other factions for being bad and wrong.

At no point in my post did it specifically say “this is all about PK only lol”, and instead decided to make incorrect claims about me and my views. It seems commonplace around these parts to assume the worst in others whenever possible, but just in case people want to read between the lines that doesn’t exist:

Hashan controls Hashan, no one else. They can hide again in the corner and do nothing or continue to get louder, prouder and stronger. The choice and actions are theirs, no one elses. Hopefully I’ve made it simple enough now to not be misinterpreted.

Cooper

People complain that Hashan doesn't make its identity clear, and so they make public newsposts to help distinguish themselves from other factions, but that's apparently a reason to be repeatedly raided

@Keorin

You do read public news, yes? These two posts are absolutely reason for us to raid Hashan.

There have also been shouts, yells, tells, raids, etc.

Sobriquet calling me out for not being at every raid was also pretty lulzy considering I was giving them OOC consideration of not bringing too many raiders. 

Kiet

City identity doesn't revolve around pvp. Even the two military cities have more to their identity than just who they fight.

The mistake here is to think that you're entitled to a city identity (you are), so you're also entitled to not get beaten up at pvp (you're not). Hashan can establish a city identity through public posts that don't deliberately antagonize other cities, or they can even establish one by antagonizing one of the smaller cities first. If Hashan had picked on Eleusis, that's probably an even fight or in Hashan's favour.

Sobriquet

Cooper said:

People complain that Hashan doesn't make its identity clear, and so they make public newsposts to help distinguish themselves from other factions, but that's apparently a reason to be repeatedly raided

@Keorin

You do read public news, yes? These two posts are absolutely reason for us to raid Hashan.

There have also been shouts, yells, tells, raids, etc.

Sobriquet calling me out for not being at every raid was also pretty lulzy considering I was giving them OOC consideration of not bringing too many raiders. 

Yeh, I felt a bit shit about that, I should have left Cooper out of that post.

Cooper

It was 100% fine to do IC.

In Mhaldor, I'm the first to not take part in a raid/skirmish if I think we have enough people and someone else wants to jump in. I've played long enough, and I'd rather have the younger folks or new chars have the chance for fun.

Also, did not mean for those pics to be gigantic, they were screenshots from my cell phone.

Caelan

Cooper said:

It was 100% fine to do IC.

In Mhaldor, I'm the first to not take part in a raid/skirmish if I think we have enough people and someone else wants to jump in. I've played long enough, and I'd rather have the younger folks or new chars have the chance for fun.

Also, did not mean for those pics to be gigantic, they were screenshots from my cell phone.

Just props to you for that little set of skirmishes in EI yesterday when you guys exterminated.  I was on shitty wi-fi at work and you guys made it fun.  Both sides had some fun.  

Talamond

This was pretty awesome to see on a Monday night.

Kiet

We had a cwho like that a couple of nights ago (we were the biggest city at EST primetime which I never see lol) and I was like 'where'd all these people come from' but it's really nice to see all the cities having healthy populations lately.

Talamond

Seriously. Seems like everyone got a nice boost after the elemental event. Or maybe this happens every Feb? I dunno, but I like it.

Keorin

@Cooper

Posts like that are obviously a good reason to raid, I certainly wasn't trying to argue with that. But it's been the better part of a month since Hashan's posted anything belligerent, and they're still getting frequently hit by multiple cities. What's the end goal for all this?

My point is that I don't think blaming Hashan for struggling to stand up and push through all this a constructive attitude. Hashan is trying to take more of a stance in the game world, something that they struggled with even when they were stronger, and unsurprisingly they're not doing it perfectly.  But I'd like to think that everyone would rather see Hashan turn itself into an ideologically engaging faction instead of withdrawing, and with that in mind, I don't think that blaming them for not coming out of daily raids feeling "louder, prouder, and stronger" isn't exactly fair. We'd all like to see a more engaging, dynamic game world, there's got to be better ways of engaging in conflict then hitting other factions and blaming them for not having fun.

Kiet

What do you want? It's a role-playing game, if people just ignore your blatant war-mongering posts in public then what's the point of even roleplaying? A month is barely any time at all in Achaea, and it's not like they've been hit with all everyone else has. They're no one's primary focus.

I'm perfectly fine ignoring Hashan for the most part, and I bet everyone else is, too. Hashan just has to not provoke it IC, and if they do maybe post 'ok maybe we were wrong' or negotiate something IC. Provoking aggression IC then complaining on the forums is weird.

[Deleted User]

I've said it many times before: there comes a time where "but it's RP!" stops being a valid excuse in such things, and in the end just doing it to fuel the fire. There is such a thing as taking a break, and cooling off. Nobody said to ignore anything.

The fact you can't seem to comprehend that despite it being pretty much the underlying point of everything that's been said, is telling of the mentality you have when you play.

0.02c

Kiet

We've given Hashan lots of break, we haven't raided them very regularly for like a week or two. We're not about to never raid them again, tho, lol.

Cooper

We would take a break from Hashan if we had really focused on them at all. I think we've raided Cyrene more in the last month than we've raided Hashan.

Their complaints just...are not valid at all right now, aside from a certain person's words OOC on the forums. I've tried to play nice both IC and OOC, but I've also seen their party tells, CT, and clan tells when they raid us and when we raid them. The amount of straight up bullshit lies that have been told is insane. They will take a raid that is 6v11 in their favor (real defenders that are participating, not from QW) and then talk about how we raided with double their numbers. This isn't just privately, either - it has been shouted.

That behavior needs to stop if they want us to not raid them.

Chubbs

Ferengi Rules of Acquisition, number 76, please.

Chiam

Talamond said:

This was pretty awesome to see on a Monday night.

(Mhaldor ooc): @Iakimen says, "You wanna skirmish Targ."
(Mhaldor ooc): Iakimen says, "Nvm."
(Mhaldor ooc): Iakimen says, "Qw is too big I'm scared."

Esenna

So aside from the raid stuff. After being dormant off and on I finally achieved dragon! (Although this happened a week ago I'm still posting) A big, HUGE, enormous shout out goes to @Rilinstra for all the help she has given me. Including helping me make the critical hit pendant, and a few credit loans for my first artefact dirk. Also a shout out to Hashan for always being there to answer questions, being good friends, and making me laugh. Also thank you for the combat help @Vander @Strata @ kasa @ regi and for always being my punching bag @sholen I appreciate you all and anyone else I might have missed I'm sorry. Thank you!

Asmodron

Sigh

Not even sure I want to bring up this point again because it is just being interpreted as "you're whining. git gud", but i'll give it another go.

1. Hashan has no issue with conflict.

2. We knew us stating our ideals and path would bring conflict. I personally wrote the Edicts with Kasa to have teeth in it for a reason.

3. No one has whined that this has brought conflict.


The only main problem stated and restated was the behavior of some and how it does not -encourage- conflict. Killing guards when only 2 defenders were around, Targetting small members because they dont know how to counter things like meteors, Bringing immense numbers and insisted we fight back in OOC tells (this caused quite some arguments), etc.

Yes the mentality of "Just take it, it's all fun" will prevail with some of you, but again you need to understand this is a 'game' and the idea of logging in to have your ass handed to you with almost no reasonable way seen of countering...will deter people from logging in. Seeing things like your guards all killed, or a large group of very seasoned people in your city and knowing your own group would have very little chance of countering that...does not make for fun gameplay.

The funny thing is that 2 of Hashan's leaders wanted separated conflicts...and it seems a miscommunication came of whom to poke. Mosr really -really- wanted to poke Ashtan's buttons, even partially hoping we'd lose Domination from it. He was a bit of a firecracker. It got to the point the Chaos Court itself said "beat the shit out of them".

Mhaldor wanted part of the action and tossed up an insulting post, which Regi responded with "Bring your forces, we'll take them".

At this point I was preparing the lube for what was to come.


tl;dr: Restating that it isnt about conflict. We welcome conflict, but certain actions will deter people from wanting to even engage you back, as well as the idea of near daily raiding which would wear anyone out.

Kiet

The problem is you refuse to think of why people do things beyond 'they're trying to grief me.' Guards were killed because you kept using them no matter how many we brought, for instance.

"Targeting smaller people" is like... strategy 101. Every city does that, because why tf would you try to kill Farrah/Proficy/etc first when you can kill Bobby Newbie that's sniping you for 20% hp?

"Bringing immense numbers" No one raids Hashan with over 50% of their qw numbers anyway, but if people bring more than you think you can take it's usually because they have to prepare for guards. We tried bringing 3-4 people, and guards got moved on us immediately every time.

It's fine if you don't like those things, really. But you can't pretend they just happened in a vacuum, and as CL you'd be better off figuring out why they happen than posting in a way that makes your predecessor come in to call you out as whining.

It's great you're okay with conflict! But that doesn't mean it's always going to be on your terms exclusively, as if you get to dictate what's 'fair' or not single-handedly.

Xaden

Myself and Solnir tried to two-man a Hashani CW of 26 and we had to deal with half an hour of monk bullshit before anything remotely resembling a fight happened. 

If you want to talk about bullshit 'strategies', I'm gonna point out that it's stuff like this that makes me indifferent to your plight. In fact, it was this exact situation that played in my mind before I decided to tank Hashan for the second time in twelve hours the other day.

(which, funnily enough, resulted in a Mhaldorian contacting one of our group to tell us to give you guys a break)