What Happened To You Today?

Hataru

I mean maybe if y'all stop raiding the pulpit weekly and don't 18v8 us we wouldn't guard (< the aformentioned is sarcasm, since everyone seems to take me seriously 100% of the time ). The last two raids I've been around where we moved guards odds were at least 2:1. I know that isn't always. But I think there's a line where guardplay gets tipped into the "totally reasonable" collumn.

'guarding' and 'guard'd' here mean MOVING guards, not 'help, help mother fuckers'.

If you 18v8 a city where 5/8 aren't dragons or artied with 17/18 dragons 17/18 of which are artied at least minimally... I mean I don't really see why its a negative that the opposing team guard'd you. I'd expet Targ and welcome it if we did that. Especially if we also had 5 rooms of ret with staff holder so that ret couldn't be dropped (I will never think permanent-ret is okay no matter what side has the damn staff, its not just 'OP' at that point, which is the point of the staff and I get that - but its basically worldbreaking and impossible to engage against and it doesn't just tip things it makes it only fun for one side, and btw losing a fight can still have been a fun fight! You don't have to win for it to have been fun! And a little retribution is fun for both sides, but there's definitely a line. And I hard pass on being okay with anyone having perma retardation vibe).

Now if we're 8v8 or even like 10v7 and the odds are relatively reasonable? I think guarding a group is a shitty move.

Achilles

Ashtan often interfered in raids, they would even join in defending Hashan.  This was a long time ago but happened regularly.  

Hirst calls guards a lot, he did it to us (when you were part of Targ) with earthshaker relic to boot.  Let's not pretend every city doesn't have those kind of people who have guards doing the dirty work for them.  

Anyways everyone needs to chill, guards and worldburn can generally be avoided.  Don't entrench near a shrine and you can rush the people moving guards among many other options.  

Taryius

Generally, if you are raiding Mhaldor in a spot where we could call for help and guards would come, we'll do it. Those spots are protected for a reason.

Moving guards to protect some random room in the cathedral is meh, unless the odds are super outmatched and we have some reason to need to protect that room and not just suicide rush and try to pick you guys off (I mean you guys got two level 2 tanks off in the past few weeks cause we have been actively defending even though its clear were outskilled, outmanned or outgunned.).

As for worldburn, I think people have been a bit trigger happy after they finally, for the first time got the ability to use it... Definitely think it shouldn't be dropped every defile especially for random out of city defilings.

Austere

I setup aliases to move guards the other night for the first time.  Something I'm not proud of.  My intention at the time was to use them anytime a raid involved Frederich.  I've deleted them since then. This isn't a one time miscommunication.  This is one person, Targossas has given power to, going against raiding courtesies we as players have built up over the past 3 years.  This is Targossians agreeing with us on OOC clans mid-raid that guards shouldn't have been used because regardless of odds or numbers, both factions were having fun.

We're talking about someone that for the past four months has sent me a tell or message before EVERY single encounter involving our two factions started crying about 1. Numbers, or 2. Automation.  We get bum rushed 4 minutes later 2:1 from someone telling me you got no one.  I broke down and started using occie because no matter how manual I am, I'm always going to be known as the automation guy.  I can accept that, but I legit got accused of automating hangedman/aeon/warp the other night on Targossas' ooc clan from Frederich.  

If this seemed like a Targossian call out, it wasn't.  I get along with most of you 99.9% of the time, but when you give some one power and a title, they become a representative you.  As an Archon of Ashtan, I will never condone guard movements last minute in a raid you guys have built a tank up in under 14 minutes for.  I will personally city disfavour any asshat that does so.  

Farrah

Hataru said:

I mean maybe if y'all stop raiding the pulpit weekly and don't 18v8 us we wouldn't guard (< the aformentioned is sarcasm, since everyone seems to take me seriously 100% of the time ). The last two raids I've been around where we moved guards odds were at least 2:1. I know that isn't always. But I think there's a line where guardplay gets tipped into the "totally reasonable" collumn.

'guarding' and 'guard'd' here mean MOVING guards, not 'help, help mother fuckers'.

If you 18v8 a city where 5/8 aren't dragons or artied with 17/18 dragons 17/18 of which are artied at least minimally... I mean I don't really see why its a negative that the opposing team guard'd you. I'd expet Targ and welcome it if we did that. Especially if we also had 5 rooms of ret with staff holder so that ret couldn't be dropped (I will never think permanent-ret is okay no matter what side has the damn staff, its not just 'OP' at that point, which is the point of the staff and I get that - but its basically worldbreaking and impossible to engage against and it doesn't just tip things it makes it only fun for one side, and btw losing a fight can still have been a fun fight! You don't have to win for it to have been fun! And a little retribution is fun for both sides, but there's definitely a line. And I hard pass on being okay with anyone having perma retardation vibe).

Now if we're 8v8 or even like 10v7 and the odds are relatively reasonable? I think guarding a group is a shitty move.

Nobody cares about Mhaldor guarding when outnumbered. I'm referring to all of the raids where Mhaldor outnumbers us but guards anyway.

And @Melodie how many people can worldburn is irrelevant. It only takes one. I'll say straight up I don't recall being worldburned by anyone other than Proficy. That doesn't change the fact that we get worldburned multiple times within an hour while we're already outnumbered. When asked about it on Discord, we were told Mhaldor intentionally plays unfair because they don't like us and we "deserve" it. That's all I'm bringing up. It's often the cause of our raids being larger now, as well. 

Solnir

Klendathu said:

Solnir said:

I meant to post this earlier but had to run off super fast - @Penwize I hate you, but you put up a damn good fight against our raid attempt earlier.

I still hate Serpent. Please delete evade already.

Who was it that kept on dying? Hmm? No love for the victims

I like you Klen but tbh you were just sanction fodder...

Aegoth

Farrah said:

Austere said:

Farrah said:

Aegoth said:

Austere said:

Frederich said:

Austere said:

Xaden said:

I woke up (a little late), logged in while the kettle was boiling, saw we were being raided and proceeded to really enjoy the different ways we tried to oust you. 

Tesha always makes for a fun defence leader (if not always a successful one).

Awesome raid, shame Frederich tried to ruin it. 

Shame I started moving guards because I was tired and didn't want to deal with you guys raiding after farrah QQ'd, like you guys have been doing for the past 2+ months.

Guilty. I try not to login until she qqs. It definitely has nothing to do with real life responsibilities.  Nope, I'm just dodging Farrah. 

Unlike you, I'm willing to accept a fair fight loss and do so frequently. I don't tag in fifty more people when sanction pops or auto move guards the second I realise there's a chance my team should lose.  Maybe next time you dont want to deal with it, just don't deal with it. Your team was having fun.  Tesha was lead.  What did you really bring to the table outside off a bad attitude and a little tears? When half the Targys I talked to called bullshit on guard move, the problem isn't us.  It's you.

We've had a gentlemen's agreement among the leaders in Achaea for a long time involving guards.  Ashtan will straight unaided Security aides over things like this. Targ needs to get it's shit together on this one. 

Fred's ALWAYS like this. He complains and rages when he has even a chance of losing, and tries to tip the scales by doing lame shit such as guarding whenever he can. Meanwhile he will boast and chortle endlessly about how amazing a fight was when he wins it with 3:1 odds in his favor. Frederich is probably more toxic than Florentino was, and that's saying a lot

There are a lot of Mhaldorians who do all of that to us lately. Guards are an expectation now in our offensive raids, not a surprise. I'm not sure anyone should be pointing fingers. 

Remarks like these only encourage people to be OOC enemies and guard more just to piss people off, though. I mean, Mhaldorians have told us straight up that they don't like us and will worldburn/guard at every opportunity because of that. And they do.

What I dont get, is how this results in Ashtan getting worldburn/guarded at every opportunity.  I understand both in an uneven fight, but when we get rushed 3x by forces equal to our own and pull wins completely out of our asses(legit no clue how we didnt die), it really leaves a lot to be desired.  It took us 14 minutes from tank drop to detonate. 0 radiances, 1 mind strip summon of a combatant already engaging. The defense was there.

We do not worldburn.  We do not move guards.  We have access to both consistently.  This isn't a "they did it so we are going to" argument from my perspective and never has been.

Sure, but I was responding to Aegoth, who has been involved in much of the aforementioned with Mhaldor (we get worldburned about 3 times per defiling trip, no joke). I wasn't there for the Ashtan raid. Sounds like maybe there was a miscommunication between Fred and the rest of the Targ party.

Also, not everyone is on the same page regarding guards, in general. I get that you're not really guarding us, but we also barely raid Ashtan. So if we're always being guarded everywhere we go raid, it's somewhat natural for someone to think that's how things go down.

Pretty happy to boast that I have never worldburned (bc i forget i have the skill). Proficy's the one you want to call out. I also rarely call giards, because I enjoy hogging all the kills to myself. I usually tell people not to use stuff like that bc i like real fights, but it is pretty arrogant to claim that Targossas has not been going horrendously overboard with their raids of late, so it's been kind of necessary to resort to these measures. It happens, sure, but people generally admit when they are being shitbags. Unfortunately for Targossas, you have Frederich pouring sewage all over your otherwise awesome reputation.

Hataru

Farrah said:

Hataru said:

I mean maybe if y'all stop raiding the pulpit weekly and don't 18v8 us we wouldn't guard (< the aformentioned is sarcasm, since everyone seems to take me seriously 100% of the time ). The last two raids I've been around where we moved guards odds were at least 2:1. I know that isn't always. But I think there's a line where guardplay gets tipped into the "totally reasonable" collumn.

'guarding' and 'guard'd' here mean MOVING guards, not 'help, help mother fuckers'.

If you 18v8 a city where 5/8 aren't dragons or artied with 17/18 dragons 17/18 of which are artied at least minimally... I mean I don't really see why its a negative that the opposing team guard'd you. I'd expet Targ and welcome it if we did that. Especially if we also had 5 rooms of ret with staff holder so that ret couldn't be dropped (I will never think permanent-ret is okay no matter what side has the damn staff, its not just 'OP' at that point, which is the point of the staff and I get that - but its basically worldbreaking and impossible to engage against and it doesn't just tip things it makes it only fun for one side, and btw losing a fight can still have been a fun fight! You don't have to win for it to have been fun! And a little retribution is fun for both sides, but there's definitely a line. And I hard pass on being okay with anyone having perma retardation vibe).

Now if we're 8v8 or even like 10v7 and the odds are relatively reasonable? I think guarding a group is a shitty move.

Nobody cares about Mhaldor guarding when outnumbered. I'm referring to all of the raids where Mhaldor outnumbers us but guards anyway.

And @Melodie how many people can worldburn is irrelevant. It only takes one. I'll say straight up I don't recall being worldburned by anyone other than Proficy. That doesn't change the fact that we get worldburned multiple times within an hour while we're already outnumbered. When asked about it on Discord, we were told Mhaldor intentionally plays unfair because they don't like us and we "deserve" it. That's all I'm bringing up. It's often the cause of our raids being larger now, as well. 

Frederich definitely cares.

Antidas

Austere said:

edit:  @Alyxeri has it on point.  I don't care how many people defend.  It's your city.  Bring every Targossian you got.  I do care about people stacking the odds beyond the already seemingly insurmountable wall in place.  Ashtan hasn't detonated a tank since Jhui left, iirc.  The last time we got close(Hashan raid), Targossas decided to intervene and deactivate(an Ashtani tank in Hashan).  Fighting 2 factions, both with numbers capable of taking us on was essentially impossible. Even Hashan wtf'd it.  I don't remember Ashtan ever deactivating a Targossian tank in any other city either. 

Yeah, the comments about how Ashtan never used to interfere in raids like that are pretty hilarious. You guys literally used to call yourselves "Ashtan world police" on OOC clans. You did it constantly, and it it was either infuriating or exhilarating, depending on the situation. We could regularly count on Ashtan just showing up to say hi and try to kill everyone during raids between pretty much any two other factions, however. You guys don't get to do it constantly, and then complain about the same activity the moment Ashtan isn't top dog anymore. Thats the definition of hypocrisy. And for the record, we were killing Hashani just as much, if not more than the Ashtani.

I won't comment on the guard moving other than to say that the personal attacks are going a way overboard. Whether you agree or disagree with the decision to move guards doesn't matter. It happened, and you're more than welcome to state your problem with it. But lets try to remain slightly civil here and not just turn it into personal attacks on Frederich, yeah?

Xaden

Alright, listen, Frederich is a real fucking person. That's enough shitting all over him. Thanks.

Second: Aegoth, we'll argue this back and forth all night - but Targossas' will claim that the reason for the overmatched raids is because of the world-burns / guarding and Mhaldor will claim that the reason for guarding / worldburning is the overmatched raids. 

We will never get anywhere with this argument. Ever.

However, what we can do (as mature fucking human adults) is agree, OOCly, that we should probably be less cuntish to each other and reset the grief clock before shit gets massively out of hand.

Farrah

Aegoth said:

Farrah said:

Austere said:

Farrah said:

Aegoth said:

Austere said:

Frederich said:

Austere said:

Xaden said:

I woke up (a little late), logged in while the kettle was boiling, saw we were being raided and proceeded to really enjoy the different ways we tried to oust you. 

Tesha always makes for a fun defence leader (if not always a successful one).

Awesome raid, shame Frederich tried to ruin it. 

Shame I started moving guards because I was tired and didn't want to deal with you guys raiding after farrah QQ'd, like you guys have been doing for the past 2+ months.

Guilty. I try not to login until she qqs. It definitely has nothing to do with real life responsibilities.  Nope, I'm just dodging Farrah. 

Unlike you, I'm willing to accept a fair fight loss and do so frequently. I don't tag in fifty more people when sanction pops or auto move guards the second I realise there's a chance my team should lose.  Maybe next time you dont want to deal with it, just don't deal with it. Your team was having fun.  Tesha was lead.  What did you really bring to the table outside off a bad attitude and a little tears? When half the Targys I talked to called bullshit on guard move, the problem isn't us.  It's you.

We've had a gentlemen's agreement among the leaders in Achaea for a long time involving guards.  Ashtan will straight unaided Security aides over things like this. Targ needs to get it's shit together on this one. 

Fred's ALWAYS like this. He complains and rages when he has even a chance of losing, and tries to tip the scales by doing lame shit such as guarding whenever he can. Meanwhile he will boast and chortle endlessly about how amazing a fight was when he wins it with 3:1 odds in his favor. Frederich is probably more toxic than Florentino was, and that's saying a lot

There are a lot of Mhaldorians who do all of that to us lately. Guards are an expectation now in our offensive raids, not a surprise. I'm not sure anyone should be pointing fingers. 

Remarks like these only encourage people to be OOC enemies and guard more just to piss people off, though. I mean, Mhaldorians have told us straight up that they don't like us and will worldburn/guard at every opportunity because of that. And they do.

What I dont get, is how this results in Ashtan getting worldburn/guarded at every opportunity.  I understand both in an uneven fight, but when we get rushed 3x by forces equal to our own and pull wins completely out of our asses(legit no clue how we didnt die), it really leaves a lot to be desired.  It took us 14 minutes from tank drop to detonate. 0 radiances, 1 mind strip summon of a combatant already engaging. The defense was there.

We do not worldburn.  We do not move guards.  We have access to both consistently.  This isn't a "they did it so we are going to" argument from my perspective and never has been.

Sure, but I was responding to Aegoth, who has been involved in much of the aforementioned with Mhaldor (we get worldburned about 3 times per defiling trip, no joke). I wasn't there for the Ashtan raid. Sounds like maybe there was a miscommunication between Fred and the rest of the Targ party.

Also, not everyone is on the same page regarding guards, in general. I get that you're not really guarding us, but we also barely raid Ashtan. So if we're always being guarded everywhere we go raid, it's somewhat natural for someone to think that's how things go down.

Pretty happy to boast that I have never worldburned (bc i forget i have the skill). Proficy's the one you want to call out. I also rarely call giards, because I enjoy hogging all the kills to myself. I usually tell people not to use stuff like that bc i like real fights, but it is pretty arrogant to claim that Targossas has not been going horrendously overboard with their raids of late, so it's been kind of necessary to resort to these measures. It happens, sure, but people generally admit when they are being shitbags. Unfortunately for Targossas, you have Frederich pouring sewage all over your otherwise awesome reputation.

I never claimed Targossas hasn't done overboard raids. All I claimed was that we've been guarded and worldburned (on multiple occasions) while not going overboard too! I just think there's a lot of unnecessary friction that causes both sides to go overkill.

Sobriquet

Did the forum get caught in a time warp because I keep reading the same Shit on a loop. 

Kiet

                   

Taryius

Farrah said:

When asked about it on Discord, we were told Mhaldor intentionally plays unfair because they don't like us and we "deserve" it. 

I'm never for name and shaming, so I'm not going to ask. But that is an awful attitude to have and does not reflect on how a lot of Mhaldorians think. 


Edit instead of posting again: We all have guarded and worldburned, ran away and not gave sanction in fights that were fair. (SEE Mhaldor vs Targossas WAR). It is unfun, but some people just hate losing so much that even if the consequences are nil they'll pull out these mechanics to try and win. Both sides have em', the frequency of each just fluctuates.

Frederich

Back to "what happened to you today?"

Xaden guilted me into buying a new weapon.

I also made a script for using said weapon and went "oh right, that nexus script contest!"

The script contest closed at the start of the month.

Alyxeri

Personally I thought it was funny last week sometime, when we fought Mhaldor in EI... Then they left to fuck with Targ...

...then they left Targ to come fuck with us again, and Targ followed them to EI, and we ended up having a threeway of clusterfuckery proportions.

I dunno whether or not it was "fun" but it was still pretty hilarious. I think we ended up having the most alive at the end, though, because Mhaldor shifted their focus to Targ people, while we were also killing them.

Kogan

Wait... so killing someone via call for help doesn't make me good?

Austere

Claiming Ashtan used to do x doesn't really apply when you're dealing with people that for the majority were not Ashtani, relevant, or created when Ashtan was doing x. We can all agree Hirst can be a dick.  We can also all agree that dude hasn't really been active since February. I already stated that if any asshat moves guards on my watch the way they have been being used, I'd personally nip it. 

I'm not shitting on Frederich.  I'm calling out his behavior. 

Kayle

SO BACK TO WHAT HAPPENED TO US TODAY


I LOST MY MAN BEARD...............


HDJFIFHEBAJFNGIRKSBZJABFJTNFVBCJRKE

Aegoth

Farrah said:

Aegoth said:

Farrah said:

Austere said:

Farrah said:

Aegoth said:

Austere said:

Frederich said:

Austere said:

Xaden said:

I woke up (a little late), logged in while the kettle was boiling, saw we were being raided and proceeded to really enjoy the different ways we tried to oust you. 

Tesha always makes for a fun defence leader (if not always a successful one).

Awesome raid, shame Frederich tried to ruin it. 

Shame I started moving guards because I was tired and didn't want to deal with you guys raiding after farrah QQ'd, like you guys have been doing for the past 2+ months.

Guilty. I try not to login until she qqs. It definitely has nothing to do with real life responsibilities.  Nope, I'm just dodging Farrah. 

Unlike you, I'm willing to accept a fair fight loss and do so frequently. I don't tag in fifty more people when sanction pops or auto move guards the second I realise there's a chance my team should lose.  Maybe next time you dont want to deal with it, just don't deal with it. Your team was having fun.  Tesha was lead.  What did you really bring to the table outside off a bad attitude and a little tears? When half the Targys I talked to called bullshit on guard move, the problem isn't us.  It's you.

We've had a gentlemen's agreement among the leaders in Achaea for a long time involving guards.  Ashtan will straight unaided Security aides over things like this. Targ needs to get it's shit together on this one. 

Fred's ALWAYS like this. He complains and rages when he has even a chance of losing, and tries to tip the scales by doing lame shit such as guarding whenever he can. Meanwhile he will boast and chortle endlessly about how amazing a fight was when he wins it with 3:1 odds in his favor. Frederich is probably more toxic than Florentino was, and that's saying a lot

There are a lot of Mhaldorians who do all of that to us lately. Guards are an expectation now in our offensive raids, not a surprise. I'm not sure anyone should be pointing fingers. 

Remarks like these only encourage people to be OOC enemies and guard more just to piss people off, though. I mean, Mhaldorians have told us straight up that they don't like us and will worldburn/guard at every opportunity because of that. And they do.

What I dont get, is how this results in Ashtan getting worldburn/guarded at every opportunity.  I understand both in an uneven fight, but when we get rushed 3x by forces equal to our own and pull wins completely out of our asses(legit no clue how we didnt die), it really leaves a lot to be desired.  It took us 14 minutes from tank drop to detonate. 0 radiances, 1 mind strip summon of a combatant already engaging. The defense was there.

We do not worldburn.  We do not move guards.  We have access to both consistently.  This isn't a "they did it so we are going to" argument from my perspective and never has been.

Sure, but I was responding to Aegoth, who has been involved in much of the aforementioned with Mhaldor (we get worldburned about 3 times per defiling trip, no joke). I wasn't there for the Ashtan raid. Sounds like maybe there was a miscommunication between Fred and the rest of the Targ party.

Also, not everyone is on the same page regarding guards, in general. I get that you're not really guarding us, but we also barely raid Ashtan. So if we're always being guarded everywhere we go raid, it's somewhat natural for someone to think that's how things go down.

Pretty happy to boast that I have never worldburned (bc i forget i have the skill). Proficy's the one you want to call out. I also rarely call giards, because I enjoy hogging all the kills to myself. I usually tell people not to use stuff like that bc i like real fights, but it is pretty arrogant to claim that Targossas has not been going horrendously overboard with their raids of late, so it's been kind of necessary to resort to these measures. It happens, sure, but people generally admit when they are being shitbags. Unfortunately for Targossas, you have Frederich pouring sewage all over your otherwise awesome reputation.

I never claimed Targossas hasn't done overboard raids. All I claimed was that we've been guarded and worldburned (on multiple occasions) while not going overboard too! I just think there's a lot of unnecessary friction that causes both sides to go overkill.

You're generally fine, and try to keep things fair, Farrah. At least in my opinion. I cannot say the same for a small handful of other Targs that generally like to sour up the experience, whether intentionally or not. Not aure what the best way of dealing with those problem people is, though. Ah well

Thalak

Almost got level 80 earlier today. Then lost experience due to dying in the little mini-raid Targ vs Ashtan. Then got a kill at the very end of it to bring me back up to similar experience! Only 10% more until Logosian!

Edit: At least I wasn't just acting as sanction fodder! Lol

EditEdit: Also, first time defending against a raid! Woot!

Klendathu

Solnir said:

Klendathu said:

Solnir said:

I meant to post this earlier but had to run off super fast - @Penwize I hate you, but you put up a damn good fight against our raid attempt earlier.

I still hate Serpent. Please delete evade already.

Who was it that kept on dying? Hmm? No love for the victims

I like you Klen but tbh you were just sanction fodder...

Fite me IRL

Penwize

Klendathu said:

Solnir said:

Klendathu said:

Solnir said:

I meant to post this earlier but had to run off super fast - @Penwize I hate you, but you put up a damn good fight against our raid attempt earlier.

I still hate Serpent. Please delete evade already.

Who was it that kept on dying? Hmm? No love for the victims

I like you Klen but tbh you were just sanction fodder...

Fite me IRL

He also helped me lock you guys a few times, give him some credit!

Jadys

What happened to me today? I laughed. ...forums. heh. Oh. @Vender made me laugh a bit icly, too. Though I doubt he realizes it. 

Atalkez

I see some revisionist history here, and it's pretty funny honestly.

I wasn't there for any of the Ashtan raid that supposedly this issue cropped up from, but let's not act like Ashtan has a history of raiding 'fairly' either. @Austere you may be trying to do better in that vein, but you can't discount the disproportionate value of Penwize/Austere/Morthif/Zulah vs Frederich/Nazihk/Tesha - you all are more tanky, live longer/more, and are much better coordinated. Those aren't bad things, but you can't look at stuff at a pure number vs number comparison. That's disingenuous. That said, calling guards has always annoyed the shit out of me, both for and against me.

In terms of Mhaldor, ya'll really do have rose colored glasses on. I've been guarded with just 2 people there. Proficy calls guards every single time he runs into the room, if they are in range. He's taken to worldburning us on EVERY defiling engagement lately, that I have been a part of. You can't really compare Frederich and Proficy. One of them isn't exactly known as a great leader, the other one is a top tier combatant. One of them doesn't even fight unless he has to, the other one goes around looking for fights constantly. He's even taken to issuing us lately, if he dies under circumstances he considers dubious (he's lost every issue). You can't claim any kind of moral superiority when you let him act like that without doing shit about it. Also, I'll name and shame, no worries. @Kiet is the one that was on Discord talking about how Targossas is not fun to fight, so they're going to do anything they can to win at all times. I'm not sure what 'fun' is, unless you're winning, then. Like I said, I've been a part of raids where I get guarded when it was just Farrah/I even inside. I've been part of raids where it's 12v10 in your favor, and guards still get called. Your main combat leaders call guards, our midbies call guards. There is a vast difference.

Name one raid where Farrah/Atalkez called guards in the last year. I'll wait.

Hataru

Can we agree to not base Mhaldor off of Proficy and Targossas off of Frederich? That's basically what 90% of this has been and I think that admitting that neither side, in general, intends to do this shit but both sides, I'll repeat, both sides have a few consistently give-no-fucks shitty people? Cause I mean I will 150% agree that Proficy goes above and beyond in his grief. I am more than happy to admit that.

But seriously, no one is benefiting from all of us (including myself being a part of this and having partaken in this shitty behaviour on forums in this conversation) from being sat here acting like the shitty things Fred and Prof do are the normal for all of both cities.

Atalkez

Agreed, but we have to stop using those people as reasons to be shitty further.

We can reign Frederich in, that's not an issue. Can you reign Proficy in, though? Austere already mentioned that Hirst is being handled on their side, so that leaves Mhaldor.

Hataru

The only reigning in I forsee happening of Proficy is other Mhaldorians deciding not to participate when he's being ultimately griefy. (I try not to participate in the ultimately griefy shrine stuff, because I mean I have other shit I need to work on as HoN and Amby and I don't find outright griefing fun nor is it a part of Hat's RP - but sometimes we don't always know how griefy he's been cause sometimes its 100% on his own, which I think kinda makes Proficy a bit of a different problem than Fred/Hirst ultimately.)

I don't agree when he takes it next level, but it'd be disengenuous for me to claim I think any of us but Sartan saying sit the fuck down would reign him in. Particularly given, I mean, the only time he wasn't like this was as Tyrannus and even then he only kinda reigned it in. Kiet/Cooper/Aegoth could put their foot down on his guard abuse. But that's up to them as Viceroy/Tyrannus/MoS.

To be clear: I'm not saying I don't think he should be reigned in, I'm just being realistic about Proficy's lonewolf tendencies being you know, a decade old. I 100% think Proficy should be reigned in some.

Frederich

I mean.  I was just dropping by the 8th or so shrine he dusted from Deucalion alone (there were 10 or so before that to Aurora?) and witnessing him/dipping.  To which he then called like 4 other people to gank me when I dropped by the next time.  It was death (but I got like 3 writs so.  It was all good).

Prepping shrines ain't kosher either.  Reigning me in also is pretty easy so long as I don't misconstrue your words (See farrah going "DONT TOUCH THIS THING" and immediately glossing over the "don't" part and touching the thing.)

Zulah

The raids were fun. We raided a few days ago and got wrecked repeatedly. Was fun. We raided the other day and had some wins. Was fun. Sure beats fishing!

Also, @Tesha ret herself again.