What Happened To You Today?

Cooper

TIL if I joined Targ I'd be kicked out. 

Torinn

It's really simple. People need to participate. If you don't want to or can't for whatever reason then fine.  The House isn't the place for you and I'm not afraid to say it.  I don't expect most to agree, it is a divisive topic. 

Zackery

I'm going to hazard an unsolicited guess that people who don't have enough playing time to do much beyond check messages are not the ones at risk of being kicked out as much as folks who sit around at Rally and/or mudsexing on a ship are, and in that case, there's no reason why a militant, zealot faction wouldn't kick them out, really.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously I have no real way of knowing if this is or is not the case)

Aralaya

IC it makes perfect sense, and from a purely IC perspective I agree 100% with the choice. but OOC it doesn't sit right with me? There are plenty of times where I've not been able to play achaea for an extended period of time, and it would really frikken suck to log back in when i could, and find out I was kicked from my house

Danna

I guess I no longer owe @Laniara rum for losing our bet to become Dragon first... I hope you find your happiness someplace.

Ismay

Like I said before, quite a few players take this game entirely too seriously. RL matters to me much, much more than Achaea, sorry. If I only have a few free minutes each day to login, I damn sure refuse to spend them being hounded about "participation."

Which, by the way, here recently the players I've been playing with have been awesome. Not once has anyone even suggested that Ismay spend her time doing anything that I haven't volunteered her to do myself. If I had more time, I'd definitely go above and beyond to contribute more to this faction, simply because they are so great and don't try to dictate how I play the game.

You get more positive reactions and motivated players with sugar rather than vinegar.

I could be wrong, but I don't really think this is the fault of a single player. It sounded to me like it stems from the gods that run Targ.

Frederich

Zackery said:

I'm going to hazard an unsolicited guess that people who don't have enough playing time to do much beyond check messages are not the ones at risk of being kicked out as much as folks who sit around at Rally and/or mudsexing on a ship are, and in that case, there's no reason why a militant, zealot faction wouldn't kick them out, really.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously I have no real way of knowing if this is or is not the case)

Pretty much.  Though we did have a recent ousting spree due to Deuc putting out a mandate (... mostly because Laniara brought it up to him that ppl are lazy).  So, yeah.  If you participate and help the city, pretty much at all, you won't get ousted.

Stock a shop in the city?  Probably not ousted.
Aide to any of the many minsitries?  Not ousted (and infact, CR2!  CR3 depending on if you do your job good)
Army member and go on the offense at least once every year or two?  Not ousted (and infact CR2! CR3 depending on if you do your job gud)
Stand around doing not-much-of-anything besides sitting at rally and shooting the shit?  More than likely ousted.
Don't provide to the city in any meaningful way and act more-or-less as a leech?  Ousted.


It really isn't rocket science as to why we wouldn't let people who are active (see: not listed as DORMANT when we honours them.) just sit around and provide nothing for the city while draining credit reserves, etc.

Aralaya

@Frederich I think the subject was on the harbinger Purge, not the targ one, where most of the house was kicked out for dormancy

Devran

Frederich said:

Zackery said:

I'm going to hazard an unsolicited guess that people who don't have enough playing time to do much beyond check messages are not the ones at risk of being kicked out as much as folks who sit around at Rally and/or mudsexing on a ship are, and in that case, there's no reason why a militant, zealot faction wouldn't kick them out, really.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, obviously I have no real way of knowing if this is or is not the case)

Pretty much.  Though we did have a recent ousting spree due to Deuc putting out a mandate (... mostly because Laniara brought it up to him that ppl are lazy).  So, yeah.  If you participate and help the city, pretty much at all, you won't get ousted.

Stock a shop in the city?  Probably not ousted.
Aide to any of the many minsitries?  Not ousted (and infact, CR2!  CR3 depending on if you do your job good)
Army member and go on the offense at least once every year or two?  Not ousted (and infact CR2! CR3 depending on if you do your job gud)
Stand around doing not-much-of-anything besides sitting at rally and shooting the shit?  More than likely ousted.
Don't provide to the city in any meaningful way and act more-or-less as a leech?  Ousted.


It really isn't rocket science as to why we wouldn't let people who are active (see: not listed as DORMANT when we honours them.) just sit around and provide nothing for the city while draining credit reserves, etc.

You can run your city however you want as long as the administration doesn't have an issue with it, as far as I'm concerned.

However. I do not see, at all, any issue with people who just hang around. Being a citizen in a place and being someone who does almost nothing does not take away anything from those who like to be active busybodies. Also, if a person who is a hangaround gets booted, you lose the chance that said person may suddenly get really passionate about the game and completely change how they play. I've seen this happen many occasions. But if it were me, I sure as hell wouldn't want to return to the place that threw me out for not playing the way they demanded. I have known a lot of people who play the game for social reasons. I'm pretty sure most of you have seen the type: They are either lower level or right around level 80, they are Tri trans guild skills at best and all they do is hang out at their favorite tavern, bash a little and hang out with their family. (They always have a family) I've seen these people turn into really valuable guildmates/citymates in the past. I guess I just like seeing more names on WHO and, if I wanted, I could go talk to them for a bit of RP or some nice chatting, even if they aren't one of the 'important' people.

Either way, without shooting any crap of any kind at Targossas (I really mean that) this is one of the reasons why I have never been able to picture playing a character there.

Cooper

If you guys want to enact policies that are going to destroy your player base, go for it.

But you don't get to cry when your numbers dwindle because people don't want to play in a city like that.

Devran

Cooper said:

If you guys want to enact policies that are going to destroy your player base, go for it.

But you don't get to cry when your numbers dwindle because people don't want to play in a city like that.

While being very blunt, I agree with this statement.

However, I also feel that Targossas has probably considered this and are prepared to accept the possible consequences of this policy.

Aralaya

I mean, the original comment wasn't about a Targossas wide policy? There was a Targossian purge but this is about the Harbinger one, which some of us disagreed with, and the Harbinger pop pretty much always shrinks anyway.

Devran

Aralaya said:

I mean, the original comment wasn't about a Targossas wide policy? There was a Targossian purge but this is about the Harbinger one, which some of us disagreed with, and the Harbinger pop pretty much always shrinks anyway.

Did I misunderstand? I'm sorry, I thought it was a city thing.

Danna

I thought we weren't allowed to kick anyone out for being dormant or lazy? If someone was being an ass to someone else violating our policies, then I don't have a problem kicking someone out. But a dormant player? What reason is there to justify kicking a dormant player out? ICly, none. OOCly, none. So a purge doesn't really justify anything but drive the players away from the IRE games and find their entertainment elsewhere.

Siduri

Danna said:

I thought we weren't allowed to kick anyone out for being dormant or lazy? If someone was being an ass to someone else violating our policies, then I don't have a problem kicking someone out. But a dormant player? What reason is there to justify kicking a dormant player out? ICly, none. OOCly, none. So a purge doesn't really justify anything but drive the players away from the IRE games and find their entertainment elsewhere.

I agree wholeheartedly. The most used excuse is that those inactive players are a ressource drain, aka, they participate in creditsales while not contributing anything. However, this is trumped by this: 1) You can set your creditsale perms to whatever you want, including blocking it entirely from those who aren't a certain rank/position. (I am trying this currently) 2) Your organisation still receives credits when they make OOC purchases, which is a win in that regard. 3) Unmotivated players are possibly motivated players if at some point the stars are right. If those stars align when they're not in your org, then it means you've lost a player. Possibly for good game-wise. This is the reason I'm personally not kicking anyone out unless I'm divinely mandated to do so. Alas, Luminai still last in House influence, so maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Exelethril

Heresy grows from idleness.

Aralaya

@Siduri
The Harbingers are right next to you so we clearly aren't doing a whole lot better

Farrah

Devran said:

Aralaya said:

I mean, the original comment wasn't about a Targossas wide policy? There was a Targossian purge but this is about the Harbinger one, which some of us disagreed with, and the Harbinger pop pretty much always shrinks anyway.

Did I misunderstand? I'm sorry, I thought it was a city thing.

There were a few people ousted from Targ, but it was god decree and not really a "policy." So, discussing its merits isn't really relevant (nor will it have any impact whatsoever on Targ's population, as it was very limited in scope). I'm already not in favor of such policies, though, and I'm CL, so it's not like the city (as a whole) is actively pursuing such policies.

But the Harbingers can do what they want.

Cooper said:

If you guys want to enact policies that are going to destroy your player base, go for it.

But you don't get to cry when your numbers dwindle because people don't want to play in a city like that.

See above. But also who is crying? There's no need to be antagonistic.

We just won a war with the next most combatant-populated city atm. We aren't really struggling population-wise.

Aralaya

Farrah said:

But the Harbingers can do what they Torinn wants.

FTFY
(jk torinn ur cool)

Rangor

If it is on the forums it must be true.

Mathilda

Won't lie, I ended up choosing Luminai over Harbingers because of the rumoured "must be active" policies. I can't handle that kind of pressure

Xaden

Quite simple really: 

To have the benefits conveyed by being in a house you must be contributing to the house.

Not all houses run that way, and that's fine. Torinn runs the Harbz that way, and that's fine too.

Sobriquet

I contribute by living off past glories and perceived achievements. Does that count?

Xaden

Sobriquet said:

I contribute by living off past glories and perceived achievements. Does that count?

Do you at least harangue people with them on a semi-regular basis? Cos if so then you're essentially the Hashani @Micaelis and he seems to be doing fine.

Sayenna

Xaden said:

Quite simple really: 

To have the benefits conveyed by being in a house you must be contributing to the house.

Not all houses run that way, and that's fine. Torinn runs the Harbz that way, and that's fine too.

The thing is, you're not getting benefits at all when you're not actually playing in the first place. That's where the stupidity of it comes into play.

You're not swaying house influence in either direction by not being online.
You're not draining resources (credits, primarily) via creditsales by not being online.
You're not being a "lazy, non-contributing member" by not being online.
You're not benefiting in any way, shape, or form, by not being online. So why kick them in the first place? It's not going to reflect very well on your house, in their eyes, if/when they choose to start playing again. There's no real way you're "helping" your house, by kicking people who're unranked.

Siduri

Sayenna said:

Xaden said:

Quite simple really: 

To have the benefits conveyed by being in a house you must be contributing to the house.

Not all houses run that way, and that's fine. Torinn runs the Harbz that way, and that's fine too.

The thing is, you're not getting benefits at all when you're not actually playing in the first place. That's where the stupidity of it comes into play.

You're not swaying house influence in either direction by not being online.
You're not draining resources (credits, primarily) via creditsales by not being online.
You're not being a "lazy, non-contributing member" by not being online.
You're not benefiting in any way, shape, or form, by not being online. So why kick them in the first place? It's not going to reflect very well on your house, in their eyes, if/when they choose to start playing again. There's no real way you're "helping" your house, by kicking people who're unranked.

Fun fact: When I started playing Achaea again, Siduri was Houseless and Cityless. First assumed she had been purged as an inactive Ouranian from Shallam/Dawnstriders. Found out about the destruction when I wandered about asking my way to Shallam.

Micaelis

Xaden said:

Sobriquet said:

I contribute by living off past glories and perceived achievements. Does that count?

Do you at least harangue people with them on a semi-regular basis? Cos if so then you're essentially the Hashani @Micaelis and he seems to be doing fine.

I don't 'harangue' people >:(. And I'll have you know I'm almost out of novicehood in the Harbingers, thank you very much. Just need to learn my herb cures and anti-theft, so shove it. 

Farrah

Micaelis said:

Xaden said:

Sobriquet said:

I contribute by living off past glories and perceived achievements. Does that count?

Do you at least harangue people with them on a semi-regular basis? Cos if so then you're essentially the Hashani @Micaelis and he seems to be doing fine.

I don't 'harangue' people >:(. And I'll have you know I'm almost out of novicehood in the Harbingers, thank you very much. Just need to learn my herb cures and anti-theft, so shove it. 

Did you do your 20 sermons, 50 prayers, and 1,000 "Hail the Dawn"s, and with great fervour?

Ankhareoutef

All these people in the Harbingers business. Leave it to them what they do. If the house gets driven into the ground, it's none of your damn business.

Ya'll bitching about outlier cases anyway.

Sidonia

Xaden said:

Quite simple really: 

To have the benefits conveyed by being in a house you must be contributing to the house.

Not all houses run that way, and that's fine. Torinn runs the Harbz that way, and that's fine too.

This is all well and good, but Houses are their people, nothing more. You can have all the lore and history in the world and it doesn't matter because there's nobody there to play it (hello Spirit Walkers).

Houses get more from their members than vice versa. Even the slackers add to the presence/visibility of the House.

IMO booting should be reserved for actively reflecting poorly on the House or working against it.