What Happened To You Today?

Kayeil

Ankhareoutef said:

Kayeil said:

I don't care what story Targossas wants to spin. Pandora has always said so long as I've been in Her Order that She is not Chaos, it's not Her realm. It's all Eris/Babel. If you think we have anything to do with Babel you'd be wrong as we do not work together, and the Nihilists aren't Eris' greatest supporters that is for sure. The Order of Pandora has also had problems with Ashtan for a while now, so the only association we have at this point is that our Order shop is there (because previous OH put it there) and because Lady Pandora is a dormant Divine citizen there. Considering some disagreements we've had with Ashtan, it's always possible She'd decide not to be a Divine citizen there anymore. Who knows. We also have extremely loose ties to the Aegeans as we've not worked together on anything outside the tsol'teth event since I joined the Order of Pandora. All I know is Prythe, Sobriquet, myself and the others when they wake generally are not involved in anything Ashtani or Nihilistic except the very few who are of Ashtani citizenship, and whatever they do is seperate from the Order. I've also been told by some Aurorans they have no issue with Pandora and have no reason to spark a conflict, so really it just depends on which Targossan/Auroran you talk to because it isn't a 100% supported or interesting idea for all of you. Just those of you who wish to have some kind of issue for whatever personal reasons you have. I mean, during the last Tsol'teth event who did we side with? Not Ashtan. Not Mhaldor. I'm not going to argue this repeatedly, though. If you want to deny it so it will fit your narrative, so be it. This is the view of the Order of Pandora and what we have been told by our Goddess, however.

Anyways, I don't think this thread should turn into a debate so I'm just going to try and leave it at that and move on to what this thread is intended for (not religious debate).

IC nothing happened to me today, but OOC I got great news that my grandpa doesn't have colon cancer though he is a high risk. We were really worried because his health has been really bad the last several years, and this lifts a huge weight off our shoulders and I am just super thrilled about that. He has enough on his plate, and adding that to his list of problems would've just been very scary and demoralizing because his age and health is too advanced to go through the treatment.

Debate unlocked anyway.

Everything you said is 100% true, excepting the assumption that Targossas thinks Pandora is about preaching Chaos. We don't have to think that she's preaching Chaos; we just have to think she was born from a Chaotic source. This does, in fact, make her tied to Chaos (even if she decided her realm was benevolence, for example).

In my time as Targossian, it's been understood that Pandora is not an active threat, but she's not Chaos-neutral, being an entity with above mentioned ties to Chaos. We don't defile because there are bigger fish to fry.

Unless someone wants to bait a fight from Pandorans.

Technically all mortals are touched by Chaos then if you want to go back to the Lore. So I guess time for Targossas to exterminate everyone including themselves? It's still a weak argument. We don't care to support Chaos and have no ties to it as an Order other than Her being the daughter of a Goddess that hasn't been around in a very long time. HELP GODS doesn't even list Eris in the Pantheon anymore, and we don't support Babel, nor does Babel or His followers support us. So you can claim this Chaos thing all you want but there is no Eris and the current manifestation of Chaos rejects us and wants nothing to do with us.

I mean. What are people going to do, fight Prythe and I, and Sobriquet when he's awake? Prythe and I don't fight. This seems like it has stemmed from Frederich's enemy status that occurred just hours before, and we can go into those details if necessary because it seems like he's blaming Kogan and I despite the fact that his charge history has multiple warnings from people who are not Kogan or me (I'm not even security), and Kogan was ordered to do so by someone ranked higher than him. Nothing to do with me or the Order of Pandora, but this is the result regardless. In the meantime, I have too many important RL things going on and not entirely interested in whatever feud Xaden and Frederich think they have with me or anyone else, because I can tell you it's entirely one sided and not something I care to engage in. I spend my time in Cyrene, I don't attack their Order shrines, or Targossas. I don't chase them around in lawless planes or anywhere else, I really don't engage them in anything at all, but they want to start something.

Farrah

You're acting like Targ declared war on Pandora. They defiled what... one shrine? Two?

I think you're overreacting. We have no real interest in going after an order with three people, as a city. If someone wants to start a fight occasionally, though, it doesn't make it bad RP.

Kayeil

Farrah said:

You're acting like Targ declared war on Pandora. They defiled what... one shrine? Two?

I think you're overreacting. We have no real interest in going after an order with three people, as a city. If someone wants to start a fight occasionally, though, it doesn't make it bad RP.

Actually, no I'm not. Like I said, I have better things to do and think the whole thing is kind of ridiculous and more from a personal matter rather than an actual issue between Targossas and Pandora. As I stated previously, I know Targossans who aren't on board with this. If I was overreacting I'd be complaining on rants thread. Instead, I addressed some untrue posts about my Order and I have the right to do so. I think it's ridiculous that people come on here trying to tell me what's what about my Order claiming the person who went through the Celani process and became the Goddess Pandora is wrong about their own Order. I don't come on here and tell you that you're wrong about Creation, or that Deucalion and Aurora or their followers are wrong because that's dumb. I am pretty sure within their own realms Deucalion and Aurora knew exactly what they were talking about and I wouldn't come here and accuse them of being wrong or having alliances or ties that do not exist. I think you are taking this entirely the wrong way and trying to paint my response into something it is not.

Antidas

Kayeil said:

Farrah said:

You're acting like Targ declared war on Pandora. They defiled what... one shrine? Two?

I think you're overreacting. We have no real interest in going after an order with three people, as a city. If someone wants to start a fight occasionally, though, it doesn't make it bad RP.

Actually, no I'm not. Like I said, I have better things to do and think the whole thing is kind of ridiculous and more from a personal matter rather than an actual issue between Targossas and Pandora. As I stated previously, I know Targossans who aren't on board with this. If I was overreacting I'd be complaining on rants thread. Instead, I addressed some untrue posts about my Order and I have the right to do so. I think it's ridiculous that people come on here trying to tell me what's what about my Order claiming the person who went through the Celani process and became the Goddess Pandora is wrong about their own Order. I don't come on here and tell you that you're wrong about Creation, or that Deucalion and Aurora or their followers are wrong because that's dumb. I am pretty sure within their own realms Deucalion and Aurora knew exactly what they were talking about and I wouldn't come here and accuse them of being wrong or having alliances or ties that do not exist. I think you are taking this entirely the wrong way and trying to paint my response into something it is not.

Holy shit everyone needs to calm down lol. Firstly, if you have better things to do, then you shouldn't be responding in the first place, so lets just get that out of the way now.

Secondly, its entirely reasonable for Pandora to be completely unrelated to Chaos from a teachings stand point, and yet for Targossas to believe that they are. Lets remember for a moment that this is a game where the evil villains are played by actual characters. To be the villains they have to be wrong, and yet they have to believe their cause is justified from an IC point of view. Why is it so hard to believe this could be the case here? Why can't the Pandorans preach that they are one thing, and the Targossians state that they are another?

Lastly, holy shit is this being blown way out of proportion. Like @Farrah said, a couple shrines were defiled. Targossas isn't going to war with Pandora, Targossas isn't turning its forces upon Pandora, nothing is happening...outside of 3 people deciding they felt like defiling Pandora for shits and giggles.

Draqoom

Kayeil said:

Technically all mortals are touched by Chaos then if you want to go back to the Lore.

Thought it was only Humans that came about from the taint of Chaos.

If not, doesn't matter to me. Horkval are immune.

Kayeil

Antidas said:

Kayeil said:

Farrah said:

You're acting like Targ declared war on Pandora. They defiled what... one shrine? Two?

I think you're overreacting. We have no real interest in going after an order with three people, as a city. If someone wants to start a fight occasionally, though, it doesn't make it bad RP.

Actually, no I'm not. Like I said, I have better things to do and think the whole thing is kind of ridiculous and more from a personal matter rather than an actual issue between Targossas and Pandora. As I stated previously, I know Targossans who aren't on board with this. If I was overreacting I'd be complaining on rants thread. Instead, I addressed some untrue posts about my Order and I have the right to do so. I think it's ridiculous that people come on here trying to tell me what's what about my Order claiming the person who went through the Celani process and became the Goddess Pandora is wrong about their own Order. I don't come on here and tell you that you're wrong about Creation, or that Deucalion and Aurora or their followers are wrong because that's dumb. I am pretty sure within their own realms Deucalion and Aurora knew exactly what they were talking about and I wouldn't come here and accuse them of being wrong or having alliances or ties that do not exist. I think you are taking this entirely the wrong way and trying to paint my response into something it is not.

Holy shit everyone needs to calm down lol. Firstly, if you have better things to do, then you shouldn't be responding in the first place, so lets just get that out of the way now.

Secondly, its entirely reasonable for Pandora to be completely unrelated to Chaos from a teachings stand point, and yet for Targossas to believe that they are. Lets remember for a moment that this is a game where the evil villains are played by actual characters. To be the villains they have to be wrong, and yet they have to believe their cause is justified from an IC point of view. Why is it so hard to believe this could be the case here? Why can't the Pandorans preach that they are one thing, and the Targossians state that they are another?

Lastly, holy shit is this being blown way out of proportion. Like @Farrah said, a couple shrines were defiled. Targossas isn't going to war with Pandora, Targossas isn't turning its forces upon Pandora, nothing is happening...outside of 3 people deciding they felt like defiling Pandora for shits and giggles.

I can respond if I want to, as people keep using these responses that aren't entirely true. I don't think this is Targossas vs Pandora, I have said that more than once. I think it is a personal issue on the aggressor's part, but it is easy to use the "Chaos" excuse to not own up to their real reasons.

It's one thing to say that IC, even if the Divine Herself has spoken against it and was friendly toward Aurora (though I get the impression mostly ignored despite Her efforts). Lady Pandora looked up to Aurora. She made this cute paper armour that looked just like Aurora's with gold paint and glitter and wore it for a while, and gave Her presents. She saw Aurora like a big sister figure, and thought she was so beautiful. If that's villainy, then that's new to me. Maybe some of you Targossans entirely missed these interactions, but not all of you did. However, it's entirely different to argue this and call Pandora wrong OOC when she is the person who completed the Celani process to become that Goddess.

I didn't complain about a shrine. I didn't complain about deaths. I didn't speak to the interaction at all. Maybe some others have issues with those parts what went down, I am only explaining what Pandora is about and why I think this isn't about Chaos at all.

Kayeil

Draqoom said:

Kayeil said:

Technically all mortals are touched by Chaos then if you want to go back to the Lore.

Thought it was only Humans that came about from the taint of Chaos.

If not, doesn't matter to me. Horkval are immune.

You might be right here, I was just going over the information we had in the Beloved about Maya and Eros. Even though it specifically mentions humans, it is meant to be the explanation of why mortals do not have True Sight anymore as the Gods do, and this effects all mortals including non-humans.

Arrow in hand, Eros pointed to the children bickering. "They see not as

We see, Sister," Eros told Her. "They are not Gods. They are not Aldar.

They are.. Human. The Chaos in them makes them different." Here, He

paused. "Sister, they are not able to see the world so pure. They must

not love each other equally, they must not see the beauty in them that

We see in each other." Again, He pointed with the arrow, invisible among

the Human mortals. "Or else, they will destroy themselves."

Further reading for anyone interested:

The world as those like Callisto and Sinope knew it, before Eros loosed
His arrow to forever alter the reality of mortals, was a world of Pure
Beauty. All things were equal, from the delicate petals of a rose to
carnage upon fields of battle. Nothing was held in greater reverence
than anything else based on how it effected one's senses, for the true
nature of Beauty was understood and cherished by all.

It was not long before Chaos manifested Itself in the mortals of the
realm, and jealousy and spite arose, as is the nature of humanity.
However, they arose with such fervor that they threatened to shred the
very foundations of mortal existence. It was then that Maya realized
that Her children, being so susceptible to Chaos, could not bear to
experience Pure Beauty. Eros' arrow gave mortals a skewed perception of
their own reality. Now relying on their senses to tell them what was and
was not "beautiful;" they lost all sense of what Beauty truly was.

It is due to this skewed perception of reality that words like "ugly"
came into being. Mortals often rely on comparison to define concepts
that are otherwise difficult to grasp, finding a thing's opposite and
describing how the two are different to reach a better understanding.
Thus, "ugliness" was invented through mortal perception to stand
opposite their feeble grasp of the concept of Beauty. However, Pure
Beauty truly has no opposite, as all things are comprised of It.

Jonathin

Then just let it rest in peace. You said your piece and now you are just beating a dead horse into pulp.

Nazihk

I'm going to encourage Targossans to kill Pandora shrines just because of these posts. 

Kayeil

So the Targossans and other people entirely uninvolved can post, but I respond on something that relates to me and it's an issue? Okay.

And go ahead Nazihk. Forumrp for the win. Have at it.

Jonathin

Kayeil said:

So the Targossans and other people entirely uninvolved can post, but I respond on something that relates to me and it's an issue? Okay.

And go ahead Nazihk. Forumrp for the win. Have at it.

At this point, they're responding because you are responding because they are responding. It's circular and it's already old. We all know how you feel and we all know how they feel. Agree to disagree or something, move on, and let's get back to what happened to people today.

Ozmatiah

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Frederich

We defiled 1 shrine. Then it turned into a 3v5 on clouds.

Literally one shrine. You even said it didn't mean anything since you have so few up. We can believe what we want, because she is the Direct spawn of the goddess of chaos, compared to others who are several hundred bloodlines apart. 

Trey

I feel like if you have to make multiple, long-winded posts about how you're not overreacting, well...

Tahquil

It is our RP to have these beliefs.

No! You can't have those beliefs because they contradicts what I hold as fact!

But... it's RP. You know? We are playing a role.

No! No! No!


Watch out guys, she'll start ignoring you IG for arguing with her on forums.

Kayeil

Pretty sure I have you ignored for IC reasons, but you can believe what you want. 

Shirszae

Sometimes it beggars the mind to think that you lot are all or mostly all adults.

Kayeil

I usually nominate Verrucht for the adulting.

Frederich

You have me ignored because I called you out whenever you started shittalking Gamden to me (a person who can't defend themselves.  Funny how that works, huh?)

Right after that, I got ganked on clouds by Tiamat and Ethoas (who I asked you to see where Tiamat was).  They both failed at it.  Again, funny how that works, right?  They had no way of knowing unless someone told them!  "A friend of the consortium told us about his meddling."

"Me and Tiamat are business partners."

I knew I got enemied by Kogan (as per what I saw with "Kogan has formally declared you an enemy of Cyrene.") I told Xaden about it, and he wanted to rumble.  We desecrated a shrine to get your attention (and by extension, his).  We killed you three.  Then you involved citymates to help fight.  We killed you lot and called it a fun day (Bronislav and Shirszae seemed to really enjoy themselves and learn more about group combat too from the tells I had with them!)

Eris is the Daughter of Chaos and War.  War, currently, being the city patron of Ashtan (The Seat of Chaos).  We destroyed a bit of Eris' influence by burning down the garden that Aegis proposed to her in.

It isn't all that far-fetched to say that, oh hey, she's the daughter and part of the legacy left behind of what we want to destroy.  If you actually bothered to try and educate people IC instead of going "lolomg FORUM RPZ" and doing the shit that you're doing right now, maybe we'd stop.  Maybe if you told us about how Pandora thought of Aurora as a big sister, we might stop.  No.  Instead you just talked shit to Xaden / Solnir, and then picked a fight on clouds (admittedly both sides were at tension, so we both wanted it anyways).

tldr; try to inform people IC before running to forums to bitch about it.  I know, sometimes, I do the same shit (see: This war), but jfc.  You can't cry metagaming and that we dusted the shrine simply to 'get back at you guys for enemying me' when Xaden and I have been wanting to do this for a good while to get some fighting for Cyrene's Shield members to have battles that isn't raids.

Kayeil

Frederich said:

You have me ignored because I called you out whenever you started shittalking Gamden to me (a person who can't defend themselves.  Funny how that works, huh?)

Right after that, I got ganked on clouds by Tiamat and Ethoas (who I asked you to see where Tiamat was).  They both failed at it.  Again, funny how that works, right?  They had no way of knowing unless someone told them!  "A friend of the consortium told us about his meddling."

"Me and Tiamat are business partners."

I knew I got enemied by Kogan (as per what I saw with "Kogan has formally declared you an enemy of Cyrene.") I told Xaden about it, and he wanted to rumble.  We desecrated a shrine to get your attention (and by extension, his).  We killed you three.  Then you involved citymates to help fight.  We killed you lot and called it a fun day (Bronislav and Shirszae seemed to really enjoy themselves and learn more about group combat too from the tells I had with them!)

Eris is the Daughter of Chaos and War.  War, currently, being the city patron of Ashtan (The Seat of Chaos).  We destroyed a bit of Eris' influence by burning down the garden that Aegis proposed to her in.

It isn't all that far-fetched to say that, oh hey, she's the daughter and part of the legacy left behind of what we want to destroy.  If you actually bothered to try and educate people IC instead of going "lolomg FORUM RPZ" and doing the shit that you're doing right now, maybe we'd stop.  Maybe if you told us about how Pandora thought of Aurora as a big sister, we might stop.  No.  Instead you just talked shit to Xaden / Solnir, and then picked a fight on clouds (admittedly both sides were at tension, so we both wanted it anyways).

tldr; try to inform people IC before running to forums to bitch about it.  I know, sometimes, I do the same shit (see: This war), but jfc.  You can't cry metagaming and that we dusted the shrine simply to 'get back at you guys for enemying me' when Xaden and I have been wanting to do this for a good while to get some fighting for Cyrene's Shield members to have battles that isn't raids.

That isn't really what the conversation was about and you shit talked Glacial, big deal. I got tired of you going off about Tiamat, and then you're going around spreading lies that I help Tiamat break into places when I don't even know how or have the means to. I mean his explorer rank is way better than mine, so he doesn't need my help, and he isn't improving my rank as the last time my rank moved was help from Czanthria in legal areas.

I didn't tell Tiamat to kill you, even he will speak to that. All he knows is that you were asking me to help with Targossas affairs against him asking me to tell you where he was, and I told you that was none of my business to get involved in, as the standard lately is cities don't get involved in each others problems. If you want to complain about that I've heard that you metagame on Discord and post Cyrenian info for Mhaldor raids to aid them. That's a lot more than me just venting to Tiamat that you're being a jerk because I don't want to help you.

Sure you can bring up the whole Chaos bit, but we know that isn't why the conflict started so I don't know why it was brought up to begin with since we know your reasoning was more personal even though you wanted to retaliate against an order given to Kogan by city officials ranking higher than him, and took it out on an Order not related to Cyrene. I mean, you could've just fought Kogan at that point, but we all know you won't. Not one on one anyways. Why would I explain Pandora's positive view of Aurora to Xaden and Solnir when they were intentionally being disrespectful the entire time, especially after you just killed 3 of us? Your "logic" never makes any sense. You expect to be treated with sugar and kindness when you do not treat anyone the same way.

Also, if you want to bait the Shield... Kogan is Outrider. I am Outrider. Verrucht isn't going to call war with an attack on a non-Cyrene God's shrine. You were Cyrenian long enough to know that isn't going to be the outcome. If that's a conflict you want to bait it isn't going to work this way.

Frederich

>Post Cyrenian info for Mhaldor raids to aid them.

I mean.  You can say that if you want, but I've never posted Cyrenian 'plots' to Mhaldor to help them in a raid.  Nor have I been a monk since Mhaldor has been raiding you guys again.  If that's why you guys enemied me (for hearsay on discord) then I'm going to laugh at your face, because that is the epitome of metagaming right there.

What did I do, though?  I shared a map of Cyrene (one publically available via the website) and suggested the best raiding spot for them.  They could have easily found this out by themselves by having a serpent evade in, phased, and running around finding guard stacks and doing counts.  The only thing I did was go "here's a good raid spot bcz x y z".

I don't expect to be treated with sugar and kindness, but the fact that you're over here spewwing stuff about how Pandora looks up to Aurora and all these other things doesn't exactly help the issue.  You're just forum RPing at that point and hoping that it, somehow, stops us from defiling 1 shrine to start a bit of a fight.

I didn't even know Kogan wasn't Shield (namely because I see Squire and go "oh yeah thats ttly shield").  The other two that you brought into the brawl literally hopped in because of a battle, and it was fun.  I think you're the only one that has utterly hated every single second of it, and I'm not sure what to tell you besides "If you don't want conflict, don't be involved in anything."

We'll probably continue to do the defilings because 3/5 people seemed to have a field day with the battle.


Edit: And that'll be all on this matter because I'm tired of having to argue with you.

Kiet

? I literally mapped out Cyrene's guards myself what tf is this

Prythe

Frederich said:

What did I do, though?  I shared a map of Cyrene (one publically available via the website) and suggested the best raiding spot for them.  They could have easily found this out by themselves by having a serpent evade in, phased, and running around finding guard stacks and doing counts.  The only thing I did was go "here's a good raid spot bcz x y z".

I don't want to argue at all, but I am confused why a Targossian (Targossan?) would help Mhaldor with anything.

Kogan

Okay. Ill bite.

To be fair. The discord is toxic and full of shitty attitudes. Metagaming galore and half of it hidden behind names that don't even match character names.

I bet I could even search metagaming and find a ton of posts about it in the discord that people would look down upon. Shit talking people who aren't even there constantly. Its bullshit. I've seen some borderline shrub worthy shit said there. So lets just not pretend like that place is not toxic for this community.

Kayeil

Frederich said:

>Post Cyrenian info for Mhaldor raids to aid them.

I mean.  You can say that if you want, but I've never posted Cyrenian 'plots' to Mhaldor to help them in a raid.  Nor have I been a monk since Mhaldor has been raiding you guys again.  If that's why you guys enemied me (for hearsay on discord) then I'm going to laugh at your face, because that is the epitome of metagaming right there.

What did I do, though?  I shared a map of Cyrene (one publically available via the website) and suggested the best raiding spot for them.  They could have easily found this out by themselves by having a serpent evade in, phased, and running around finding guard stacks and doing counts.  The only thing I did was go "here's a good raid spot bcz x y z".

I don't expect to be treated with sugar and kindness, but the fact that you're over here spewwing stuff about how Pandora looks up to Aurora and all these other things doesn't exactly help the issue.  You're just forum RPing at that point and hoping that it, somehow, stops us from defiling 1 shrine to start a bit of a fight.

I didn't even know Kogan wasn't Shield (namely because I see Squire and go "oh yeah thats ttly shield").  The other two that you brought into the brawl literally hopped in because of a battle, and it was fun.  I think you're the only one that has utterly hated every single second of it, and I'm not sure what to tell you besides "If you don't want conflict, don't be involved in anything."

We'll probably continue to do the defilings because 3/5 people seemed to have a field day with the battle.


Edit: And that'll be all on this matter because I'm tired of having to argue with you.

You were enemied because you have multiple charge warnings of being asked to leave, and you still show up during raids and were enemied for that. You weren't enemied over Discord or that would've happened sooner as I'd heard about it a while ago.

"Spewing stuff" or how about telling you the exact RP interactions we've had with Pandora? Not every Targossan is clueless, there are Targossans have seen the armour She had and knew about these interactions. There are Targossans I have seen spend time with Pandora, and have a good relationship with Her. Just because you don't doesn't mean the RP isn't there. You weren't even Targossan when this happened.

How do you not know Curiosphical Explorer is an Outrider title? HR15 is Curiosophical Worldwalker. You were Outrider. Squire is Order of Thurisaz and has nothing to do with the Shield. Were you not paying attention in Cyrene the entire time you were there? Also, I still haven't complained about dying. I don't care. Mhaldor raids, I die, I move on. I am so high in level it doesn't really mean shit to me at this point. I actually thought the whole interaction was kind of silly, some points even funny. I am sorry if it upsets you that I wasn't miserable, or if that's how you want me to feel, but I don't.

Go ahead and keep defiling. Maybe we won't put them back up so you have nothing to do. This isn't about an Order, this isn't the first time you and Xaden have baited conflict, and it won't be the last because you are weirdly obsessed with talking about us and finding any reason to have a fight. (Yes, I've seen the Discord logs.)

Kiet

Prythe said:

Frederich said:

What did I do, though?  I shared a map of Cyrene (one publically available via the website) and suggested the best raiding spot for them.  They could have easily found this out by themselves by having a serpent evade in, phased, and running around finding guard stacks and doing counts.  The only thing I did was go "here's a good raid spot bcz x y z".

I don't want to argue at all, but I am confused why a Targossian (Targossan?) would help Mhaldor with anything.

because he's not a targossan irl and discord isn't ic?

Skye

How did discord even come into this?

Kiet

Idk, but the discord isn't even any worse than like new post-cleanup TMC (usually much nicer, even). There's been a couple of times fights have gotten pretty bad but it's overall pretty chill.

Kayeil

Skye said:

How did discord even come into this?

Because he took one IC interaction, drug it out this long, and made it so personal he goes that far on Discord. Other than whatever little tiffs they've had in Annwyn with Kogan and Dochitha that I am completely uninvolved with I have nothing to do with Frederich or Xaden except when they decide they want to do things. I could do all kinds of annoying shit to get on their nerves if I wanted to, but it's literally an interaction I do not care for and do not understand their weird little obsession with two people who couldn't care less about either of them since we are not the ones constantly baiting them into these conflicts.

Kiet

Ok once again tho, I mapped the Cyrene guards myself and several Mhaldorians watched me do it.