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PKing - Improvements

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  • RipRip Posts: 231Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ok before this turns into a rant about the ISSUE command, I am,

    A. Going to read the help scroll,
    B. Going to Issue someone for a test and then
    C. Brainstorm some ideas that maybe could make this more understandable. (Which would be the best place to start.)

    I have never used "issue" before, is there a general issue?  Ie, People being rude/offensive, IRL threats, or killing innocents?  (Or has this simple gone to , you hurt my feelings today, so to hurt yours, I am going to issue you?)

    Apparently, if your "not a shrub" your fine, which is a relief.  Perhaps there needs to be a soothing reminder that being issued is not the end of the line and issuing players without IRL cause/reason, should be heavily discouraged.

    - Player Killing is a type of game, not a behavior in a game.  Which I suppose is where my general confusion is stemming from.

      @Naah, I agree with you, that people need to learn to live and consequences it's what makes this game fun.  One of consequences,  should not be issuing players.  We should not have to be in fear of this.

    I always thought the issue was in OOC command was for SERIOUS stuff.  I mean, 'IRL Life threats, OOC bullying, and harassment'?

    Before I go overboard here, maybe we could come up with some ideas on how to make issuing more consequential/meaningful?

    Ethoas
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpPosts: 1,753Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Rip said:
    Before I go overboard here, maybe we could come up with some ideas on how to make issuing more consequential/meaningful?
    They just gotta delete it. Facebook and iPhones have given rise to the snitch culture. Today's generation and the future generation of their kids will continue to become even more sensitive to things like feelings.
    Also blame that terrible emo shit music like Kings of Leon or whatever - making them cry and wear tight jeans that compresses their nutsacks and makes them cry even more (and then issue more because their
    nutsacks are compressed). Solutions: delete the ISSUE command. delete Kings of Leon. delete emos. also delete everyone who WTF's this post. especially @Mithridates - I bet he's jamming to Kings of Leon RIGHT... NOW.
    image
    MithridatesRipCorrPayneEthoas
  • MithridatesMithridates Posts: 1,956Member @ - Epic Achaean
    try me biatch
    ExelethrilAlcinaePayne
  • NaahNaah Posts: 235Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 2014
    I just think issue should be removed, and we keep the ignore command. If there is something serious, email/message an admin. As long as this command is around, it'll be abused by kids who hate to lose.

    Edit: Phone imba. Nerf plz

    Thinking about it. @Antonius‌ is slightly right. I think the moment someone pulls a pointless issue, until the point they do it too much, they lose the privelledge or get some form of punishment or disfavor.
    Rip
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Issue's a good command for a number of reasons. I've issued me a few times to ask about things, and that shouldn't be taken away just because some people are being stupid. Forewarning that frivolous use of the command will lead to punishment, and enforcement (uniform enforcement) of that punishment is a better solution, though it requires more manpower.
  • RipRip Posts: 231Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    My first thought is this, no one is reading the HELP ISSUE scroll before issuing. 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW ISSUE PROTOCOL: 3 steps to happier issuing, issues.

    First step. They 'issue Rip For being lazy...' Then...

    Second step, It brings up the HELP ISSUE scroll, requesting the player OOC reads it completely beforehand and understands it. Maybe even with an AGREE. (for first time readers...not sure.)

    Then a message that reminds the player, that this is WARNING: ISSUES FOR EXTREME CASES OF ABUSE. <- or whatever...

    THIRD STEP.  The issue is presented back to the player that issued it with a warning.
    Type 'issue Rip For being lazy... CONFIRM', with a few words of caution like, if this issue is not found to be an adequate reason for bringing this to our attention, your character will suffer reduced "credibility"...etc etc.

    All in RED, WARNING: Like HOLY SHIT!  That's my advice.  I also like the idea of e-mailing to the admin, but I am under the impression they want to make it accessible for people that actually need to issue someone for being abusive/harassing NOT PKing...

    Also you could limit how many issues you get, 1 In-Game issue per year, and any other issuing will have to be OOC e-mail/phone/police/jail time...etc. etc. 

    Or, keep track of how many issues a player sends in, when it reaches 3 - Be like. We are contacting you OOC, police will arrive shortly...please stay seated. (Just kidding, but really there should be a "REAL problem" at this point.)

  • BronislavBronislav MarylandPosts: 344Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Speaking as a player of a Cyrenian Serpent who has his fingers in a LOT of pies, PK (And combat in general) has been a mixture of fun and frustration for me. On one hand, there is going to be times when I'm not in the mood - if I'm milling inks, or roleplaying, or talking with people, or doing business, I'll be sitting on a guard stack, happily interacting with people without killing them. It's not a 'must' for me to enjoy this game, because my character's a lot more than a murderer.

    And then there are times when I just want to gank the hell out of someone. It's satisfying, especially when their character really has it coming - the problem doesn't stem from the entertainment, so much as the complexities of Serpent combat. What venoms to stab in what order. Keeping an eye out for how an opponent cures and take advantage of it. Alter tactics based on the class you're fighting against. Figure out ways around shield/rebounding that EVERYONE uses to break momentum. Nerfing illusions have made going toe-to-toe with someone else a bit more difficult, too, as far as Serpents go. Bottom line, Serpent combat has a high learning curve, and it's something that I'm STILL hammering out in my free time - even after playing the game for over a year.

    I think my biggest issue is the fact that Cyrene doesn't have a lot of Serpents, and most Serpents - irrespective of clans, or common enemies - don't have much patience for teaching someone who might turn into an enemy (Or, at least, a non-ally). IC, it makes a lot of sense, since there's a grand total of maybe 12 Serpents in Cyrene and only one or two in-realms at any given time; still, it doesn't encourage my character to join the Ivory Mark and the PK environment at large when I'm having difficulties locking people who know what they're doing. I'm not bitching about the city or about the state of things IC, but it's a point of frustration when my character can't even get a proper lock off and I can't get any objective feedback.



    Rip
  • AnedhelAnedhel Posts: 2,367Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Limiting the amount of issues you can file is not necessary (there's objectively a scenario out there when you need more than three in 12 IRL days, and we don't want to hamstring people from finding the resolution they need, specially if ISSUE ME is included in that limit). The warning's probably a good idea, though; like binding credits or converting credits to lessons, it should be something the system warns you is a significant thing you shouldn't be flippant about.
    Rip
  • MithridatesMithridates Posts: 1,956Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Or the admin can just not listen to frivolous issues..... problem solved
    NaahStrataEdoren
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaPosts: 510Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Late to the party but if they took away xp lose I would be pissed. I hate dragons and there are too many of the bastards anyway.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    ShirszaeStrata
  • HasarHasar Posts: 795Member @ - Epic Achaean
    You act like dragons lose noticeable xp :)

    CooperDaeir
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpPosts: 1,753Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Naah said:
    I disagree simply because that's their job. As pointless as each issue may be, they have to investigate and deal accordingly. I just think that they should go through the issues, but if it's pointless they get a strike against them. After certain strikes, they lose the right to issue, or the Admin teleports the two people into a room, bitches them both out, then makes them duel gladiator style. But really. I would hate to have to scroll through Mephaos' daily Issues.
    That is awesome. In fact, they should just make a class that has ISSUE as one of their abilities. Instead of backlogging the system with frivolous issues, people can just switch to that class and be magically stuck in Lodi and Minia, regardless of their level. No other class would have that ability. That way IRE can make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ because people who can't play the game without issuing everyone for every possible thing will have to spend money to switch to the Bitch class.
    image
    Wessux
  • NaahNaah Posts: 235Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    See, what would happen is they'd go Hashani, liberate the place, and proceed to destroy everyone. Then when they're bored of destroying in the midbie tier and proved their point, they'll go back to their mains. I've never had a problem with the A-team, besides small raid battles and contracts.
    JinsunTesha
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpPosts: 1,753Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Ernam said:
    ...

    I suggest that @Hirst, @Jinsun, @Strata should try creating a low-level, unartied character opposed to Ashtan, get involved in one to two raids, and then see what happens to you for the next week - and get back to us about how you're the victims, when issued.
    That part doesn't make any sense to me. How would I get issued I we're a low-level, unartied character opposed to Ashtan? Why would the excessively-artied grief-train members of Ashtan have a reason to issue me, and why would I be a victim of such issues?
    image
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    create character -> raid Ashtan -> get griefed horribly by Hirst for a week -> issue Hirst because he literally will not be reasonable about trying to kill you -> Hirst gripes/lols on forums about getting issued by people with a "victim card" or whatever dumb, projection-oriented term that you're using this week to describe people who don't approve of your actions -> hello point

    Seems pretty clear-cut to me, honestly.
    AchillesNaah
  • NaahNaah Posts: 235Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 2014
    Daeir said:

    create character -> raid Ashtan -> get griefed horribly by Hirst for a week -> issue Hirst because he literally will not be reasonable about trying to kill you -> Hirst gripes/lols on forums about getting issued by people with a "victim card" or whatever dumb, projection-oriented term that you're using this week to describe people who don't approve of your actions -> hello point

    Seems pretty clear-cut to me, honestly.

    I disagree strongly. When Naah was only 19 and was PK'ing her way to 73, never had that problem. I even killed a few Ashtani for no reason, most I got was killed once and warned. If you guys are seriously that bad at defending yourself or moving on, go find a different game.

    Edit: Not targeting you Daeir, but the alts.
    Tesha
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    I wholeheartedly encourage you to make an alt and experience it for yourself. Don't take my word for it!
    HasarSherazad
  • MithridatesMithridates Posts: 1,956Member @ - Epic Achaean
    It's way better then it was. 
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpPosts: 1,753Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Daeir said:
    create character -> raid Ashtan -> get griefed horribly by Hirst for a week -> issue Hirst because he literally will not be reasonable about trying to kill you -> Hirst gripes/lols on forums about getting issued by people with a "victim card" or whatever dumb, projection-oriented term that you're using this week to describe people who don't approve of your actions -> hello point

    Seems pretty clear-cut to me, honestly.
    The only thing clear-cut about "getting griefed horribly by Hirst for a week" aka "repeatedly killed by Hirst because you A. are Infamous and/or B. have repeatedly been involved with raiding/skirmishing and/or C. are a mark. and/or D. you think it's acceptable to pick a fight with OOC words so you can issue for OOC when you're PK'd over it. (aka you're an issue-farming bitchass)" ... before I have to inhale...

    The only thing clear-cut about "getting griefed horribly by Hirst for a week" is the person who is on the receiving end unable to comprehend the fact that actions have consequences. It's really simple concept.

    Here is an analogy:
    You're at the grocery store and the line for check-out is crazy long in every lane. You finally find a lane with only one person there, an old lady and she has like 300 f*king coupons.
    So, in a fit of rage, you smirk at the lady and ask her, "Could you use moar coupons plz?". Then you scoff in her general direction, roll your eyes, and mutter "F..k..ng Ridiculous... This lady."

    Upon hearing this, the lady cocks back her frail little arm and smacks the shit out of you. What do you do? You call the police on a poor old woman after YOU insulted her. Excellent job!

    Edit: If all you got was "Hirst is an old lady." from this, you're only partially correct.
    image
    HaldonShirszaeTesha
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaPosts: 6,276Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A: fine, Infamous is fair game, do whatever. If you die and you're Infamous and you issue over it, you're stupid. End of story.
    B: this is where the line gets shonky. What do you class as "repeatedly"? How do you quantify what is an acceptable number of deaths/pursuits to vindicate this fact without being a fuckshit about it?
    C: see A
    D: what we're not talking about Jinsun here
  • ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 2014
    When I brought Ernam out of Dormancy, I defended Targossas in an Ashtan raid, the same day (which was also the same I switched to monk).  I didn't really do much, as I had literally no aliases or experience, but I joined the party and did what little I could.

    I spent the next 3 days being hunted 24/7 by Jarrod, Hirst, and Jinsun, to include using their reporting pets to chase me off plane in UW, Annwyn, Arcadia, Ulangi, and Morindar.  I was attacked about twenty times (outside of treacherous planes), and died about ten (as about half the time they didn't come alone).  Several times I was told that if I wanted the attacks to stop, I was to stop defending Targossas (wasn't yet inducted), or get used to it.

    This isn't a bitch-fest, because frankly, I can take it.  But a lot of people can't, and shouldn't have to.  If I was an actual novice, I would have thrown my hands up, and either quit defending Targossas completely, or quit playing the game entirely.

    A-team, ya know I love you, but please try to keep in mind that it is a game, and the point of games are to have fun.  Three guys running around with 30k credits in arties each chasing an unartied, level 63 non-com is not fun, especially when he did nothin' other than join a party and get in some lucky AXKs inside the city walls during a sanctioned raid.

    @Strata Your analogy would be more accurate if instead of insulting the lady, you uh, punched her in the face.  Then found her later that day, and kicked her in the stomach.  Then the next day, burnt her house down.  After that, you kill her puppy, and mail a bag of cocaine to an airport with her name as the return address.  Then, finally, you get online, and post memes about how funny it was, and then publicly insult her for requesting help from said police officer.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        AchillesEdorenHalosSiduri
      1. GogGog Posts: 13Member
        Personally, I think it should be 1 death for aggressors, 0 for defenders, 1 death for defilement. Any more than that is just griefing. I had someone, who out of respect I'll leave unnamed, threaten to basically kill me repeatedly if I so much as left Mhaldor, and insinuate they would do so to keep me from getting stronger. I don't think they believe that is griefing, but I think it is. Maybe some people want to play like that, but I don't, I enjoy exploring and doing quests and other things besides hunting, and my time is valuable, losing two levels in a raid to lose two more to repeated pk is just really offputting.

        Also, on infamy, I've witnessed a lot of people not following the rule in the help file: Infamous people are -only- open PK to members of the Mark and other Infamous people. It says this twice in fact, and yet this rule is always ignored. Then again, it says right after that they can never issue even though right before that it gives an example of when you can't kill an Infamous.

        More importantly, why do you care so much about issues against you? Take 30 seconds to respond and get on with your life. If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.
        Ethoas
      2. JarrodJarrod Posts: 3,013Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Ernam said:
        When I brought Ernam out of Dormancy, I defended Targossas in an Ashtan raid, the same day (which was also the same I switched to monk).  I didn't really do much, as I had literally no aliases or experience, but I joined the party and did what little I could.

        I spent the next 3 days being hunted 24/7 by Jarrod, Hirst, and Jinsun, to include using their reporting pets to chase me off plane in UW, Annwyn, Arcadia, Ulangi, and Morindar.  I was attacked about twenty times (outside of treacherous planes), and died about ten (as about half the time they didn't come alone).  Several times I was told that if I wanted the attacks to stop, I was to stop defending Targossas (wasn't yet inducted), or get used to it.

        This isn't a bitch-fest, because frankly, I can take it.  But a lot of people can't, and shouldn't have to.  If I was an actual novice, I would have thrown my hands up, and either quit defending Targossas completely, or quit playing the game entirely.

        A-team, ya know I love you, but please try to keep in mind that it is a game, and the point of games are to have fun.  Three guys running around with 30k credits in arties each chasing an unartied, level 63 non-com is not fun, especially when he did nothin' other than join a party and get in some lucky AXKs inside the city walls during a sanctioned raid.

        @Strata Your analogy would be more accurate if instead of insulting the lady, you uh, punched her in the face.  Then found her later that day, and kicked her in the stomach.  Then the next day, burnt her house down.  After that, you kill her puppy, and mail a bag of cocaine to an airport with her name as the return address.  Then, finally, you get online, and post memes about how funny it was, and then publicly insult her for requesting help from said police officer.
        Ahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

        *breathes*

        hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

        God this post is just so adorable.
        image
        Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

        AustereKyrraAlcinae
      3. ErnamErnam Posts: 2,416Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        Sounding bland, Proficy tells you, "Welcome to the party."
        Sounding bland, Proficy tells you, "Your life is now over."

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
            NemutaurEdoren
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