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Curing

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  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Ernam said:


    Also, I can't wait to see how server side queuing pans out with things like salve curing, as right now things like heartseed, axk, Disembowel, and rising star are all essentially either 100% unstoppable or 100% guaranteed, depending on how server queuing handles priorities. From my initial playing it looks very easy to set up a simple guaranteed heartseed setup that can only be prevented by disabling server queuing and manually taking over.

    Tumble

    You're welcome for that life changing advice. Feel free to pay me in large sums of gold or credits.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    Alexandre
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,162 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    30% of classes used illusions to a significant (potentially dependable) degree in their offense?
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,162 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wessux said:
    Also, I can't wait to see how server side queuing pans out with things like salve curing, as right now things like heartseed, axk, Disembowel, and rising star are all essentially either 100% unstoppable or 100% guaranteed, depending on how server queuing handles priorities. From my initial playing it looks very easy to set up a simple guaranteed heartseed setup that can only be prevented by disabling server queuing and manually taking over.
    Tumble You're welcome for that life changing advice. Feel free to pay me in large sums of gold or credits.
    You can also just do CURING AFFLICTIONS OFF in the situations where you don't want to cure lest you die. The system still auto sips for you and you can turn curing back on when you need to. And frankly if you can't do that then why should you not die to a well set-up instant kill while using the basic server-side curing.
    Wessux
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Jovolo said:


    Wessux said:

    Ernam said:


    Also, I can't wait to see how server side queuing pans out with things like salve curing, as right now things like heartseed, axk, Disembowel, and rising star are all essentially either 100% unstoppable or 100% guaranteed, depending on how server queuing handles priorities. From my initial playing it looks very easy to set up a simple guaranteed heartseed setup that can only be prevented by disabling server queuing and manually taking over.

    Tumble

    You're welcome for that life changing advice. Feel free to pay me in large sums of gold or credits.

    You can also just do CURING AFFLICTIONS OFF in the situations where you don't want to cure lest you die. The system still auto sips for you and you can turn curing back on when you need to. And frankly if you can't do that then why should you not die to a well set-up instant kill while using the basic server-side curing.


    Still feel free to pay me in large sums of gold or credits.

    Edit: Quoting on this forum site is the most wonky, bull$#it thing ever.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • UtianimaUtianima Norway and AustriaMember Posts: 257 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited April 2014
    As much as I sympathize with combatants proficient in illusions, I am happy for this update as a whole.

    Newbie friendly, latency balancing, lag protection. Heck, I might try to hunt from my smartphone on occasion.

    I am optimistic that time will provide for new skills for the affected classes, and that more good will come out of it than bad.

    I agree that it's a pity we lose the creativity and innovation that was illusions, but I'd rather have this change (with it's pros) plus added longevity and growth for Achaea.

    Edit: grammar and spelling.

    WessuxAlexandreRip
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    I think in the end serpents will switch to trying to fool the client side affliction tracking to get us to switch priorities wrongly. Or actually illusioning other stuff like them shielding a lot so people who track that in their offense get boned. There will still be room for illusions, but if serpents are getting the tradeskill rework that people are hoping for with more sneakyness then illusions will not be playing a huge role in their offense anyway.
    Rip
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    30% of classes used illusions to a significant (potentially dependable) degree in their offense?
    Yes. 5 classes were impacted. There are 17 classes (18 if you count dragon). That means that the server-side curing potentially impacts nearly 30%,of all classes.

    If you're a jester, shaman, serpent, etc. who didn't use illusions - that doesn't negate the fact that illusions were before this a viable combat strategy. It just means you didn't use the class to its fullest while it was still possible to do so on those with server-side curing.
    JovoloNemutaurSybell
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Bluef said:
    Jovolo said:
    30% of classes used illusions to a significant (potentially dependable) degree in their offense?
    Yes. 5 classes were impacted. There are 17 classes (18 if you count dragon). That means that the server-side curing potentially impacts nearly 30%,of all classes.

    If you're a jester, shaman, serpent, etc. who didn't use illusions - that doesn't negate the fact that illusions were before this a viable combat strategy. It just means you didn't use the class to its fullest while it was still possible to do so on those with server-side curing.
    As with all new sytems new illusions will be found. Combat illusions are not going to be obsolete immediately, they will probably just focus more on trickery to force priority changes in curing afflictions that are actually present on the person rather than making the opponent think they got a new aff to cure it.
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Daslin said:
    Wut are illusions?

    If you're seriously raging about this, I feel bad for you. Takes time, but things get balanced out. Don't be all grr because of change. You remind me of my father. I tried to change from the old style light bulb to a newer one, to save him electricity and he lost his ever loving mind.

    Just breathe, seriously. Things will turn out okay. I promise. It's like coming out of the closet, "It gets better."

    I agree with your father. I hate those modern bulbs.
    AveriAlexandreDaslin
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Xli said:
    Bluef said:
    Xli said:
    I'm all for it. Anything that gets more bodies through the door that actually stay for a while is good for Achaea, which means it's good for the existing playerbase....

    Rather than immediately jumping up and down screaming how @Sarapis and @Tecton have destroyed your lives, about about seeing how things pan out for a while?
    Nerfing an ability that nearly 30% of the classes in this game used regularly in PVP without warning to help make the world easier for newcomers, whether it draws in new people or not, is a bad move in my opinion for one reason: 

    Even if this draws in some new people, which I'm not convinced it will - I'm more of a believer of oh, the lolalts will enjoy this, but whatever - it has, like so many decisions in the last couple of years further poisoned the well of current players. 

    To be clear,  I'm not talking about the rhetorical device so often used against Bluef IC, but the fact that some very long-term, deeply invested players are unhappy about how this changed was implemented, its impact on their PvP, etc. Sure, you can't please everyone all the time, but as a business IRE should at least appear empathetic and try to retain the customers they already have, if their real goal is growth (because that only happens through both adding new customers and sustaining the commitment of the ones they already have). 

    And let's be honest, every city and House I've been a part of has forbidden combat to its lowest ranks of members. By the time someone is able to PVP in most Houses, they're somewhat prepared to do so. Curing and illusions aren't a major deal breaker as to why they aren't joining in, but the cost of a combat system may be. I mean, if you can't pilfer your parent's credit card to pay for SVO, I suppose it would be frustrating if you were interested in joining Achaean combat. But I'd also wager that younger players are also not mature enough to handle some of the over the top emotionality of PVP in Achaea, as evidenced by Rants and several other threads on this forum. 

    Sure, not everyone who doesn't buy SVO is young. Maybe someone just doesn't have the cash to invest in the game? Fine. I can see server-side curing as a bonus to that. But I still don't think Achaea should have devalued the class and artefact investments already made by players to offer this. It has nothing to do with me whining - I can still kill the same people I was able to kill before. I just have far less agility in my ability to do so, and that is a valid complaint. 
    I re-iterate, let's give it a little time to pan out. Only server side curing is affected, not client side, and there won't be all that many people making the jump from one to the other quickly.

    The overwhelming air of negativity the greets every change is really quite depressing. Sure, it some warning could have been given, but what would that have achieved? People moaning about it before it had been implemented
    No, @Xli, discussion of valid concerns could have taken place. 
    Daslin said:
    Wut are illusions?

    If you're seriously raging about this, I feel bad for you. Takes time, but things get balanced out. Don't be all grr because of change. You remind me of my father. I tried to change from the old style light bulb to a newer one, to save him electricity and he lost his ever loving mind.

    Just breathe, seriously. Things will turn out okay. I promise. It's like coming out of the closet, "It gets better."
    It is amazing to me that people want to actually spend time portraying the people impacted by this change as cry babies. It is a huge change. 

    Then again, just look at the forum bias in this thread. People can call others delusional and insult them and their pretty valid concerns without repercussion. Good, ol' Achaea. Keeping it real - real imbalanced.

    Let's just stick to the actual outcomes and issues related to the change, mk?
    AlexandreDaslin
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Lots of discussion took place, just not on the forums, as there was no reason to. There's only one thing that's really negatively affected by this (illusions) and we were well aware some illusion users were going to dislike it, so not much to discuss.
    WessuxSybellAlexandre
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    @Bluef: The only point you've brought is that some classes are now imbalanced, which doesn't really make this change a bad one - it just means that they'll have to be rebalanced around it. I do agree that it'd have been cool to give people time to test new things out, and get any bugs or other things out of the system, before running a classleads, but oh well - it's not like this'll be the last classleads ever.

    And then it was the last classlead. Ever.

    TrillianaBluefAlexandre
  • TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
    Nim said:

    @Bluef: The only point you've brought is that some classes are now imbalanced, which doesn't really make this change a bad one - it just means that they'll have to be rebalanced around it. I do agree that it'd have been cool to give people time to test new things out, and get any bugs or other things out of the system, before running a classleads, but oh well - it's not like this'll be the last classleads ever.

    And then it was the last classlead. Ever.

    There's still over a week left to submit classleads, and now everyone has an additional two reports (in the event they had already submitted five)

    TrillianaAchimrstAlexandre
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tecton said:
    Nim said:

    @Bluef: The only point you've brought is that some classes are now imbalanced, which doesn't really make this change a bad one - it just means that they'll have to be rebalanced around it. I do agree that it'd have been cool to give people time to test new things out, and get any bugs or other things out of the system, before running a classleads, but oh well - it's not like this'll be the last classleads ever.

    And then it was the last classlead. Ever.

    There's still over a week left to submit classleads, and now everyone has an additional two reports (in the event they had already submitted five)

    Technically true, but a week isn't much time to learn the pecularities of the new system. Maybe it is for more hardcore PvPers than I, but I'll be lucky if I have enough time to figure out how it all works by then. x:

    TharvisBluef
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    agreed with @Nim here, the classleads should be extended a bit, or another one held within reasonable time to fully encompass possible feedback about the new system
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Jhui
  • TectonTecton The Garden of the GodsAdministrator Posts: 2,507 Admin
    No real objections to adding another week or so to submissions if people want that.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,769 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The (potential) issue with any classleads to address the lack of illusions is that not everybody (possibly not even more than a small percentage of people for some time) will be using server side curing.

    At that point it becomes a question of whether you balance around illusions never working. If you do there's the possibility the class is too strong when you add that element back in. If you don't there's the possibility that the class is too weak against server side curing.

    That's not a new issue by any means, but we have come to its logical extreme now. Vadimuses' suggestion that afflictions and defences are exposed via GMCP would put everybody on the same footing, making it easier to frame any suggested changes.
    Yilkon
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,162 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I was thinking the extra two submissions were for the illusion implications rather than just the use of the system which I'm sure will continue to be worked on past classleads.
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,116 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Please don't extend leads. If you can't think of adequate leads in the remaining week, I don't think another week would do any good.


  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If GMCP is not a viable option, could we at least get a [CURING] Afflicted with <blah> similar to the message when you cure something?
    image
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd estimate the number of people seriously impacted by this in terms of lost offense at less than ten, probably less than five.

    Two of those people have made their cases on why they didn't like it but will deal with it. The rest of the complainers are not in that list.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    AlexandreAepasDaslin
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