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Curing

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  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    I think the only reason that affs wouldn't be added to gmcp or have a [Curing]: You have been afflicted with <aff> is that it would really render combat illusions totally worthless. Right now they would still retain a little viability once people get used to how the new system is curing and they figure out how opponents are switching priorities so it can be exploited by them.
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,580 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "Man."
    (Eye Nocturnum): You say, "Technically..."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "People are going to bitch for the sake of bitching, regardless of what is changed, and that's just reality. When people are at the winning end of a tactic and it gets changed, shit's all unfair. And when they're at the losing end, shit's all unfair. Since one person has to die, it's always going to be "unfair" somewhere, because nobody wants to ever just say "I lost because they're better than me". It's always a system justification as to why that's the only reason they died. It's just fucking dumb."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "People like her -- and I'm in that boat with her, but my time is spent here differently than hers when i'm around -- spend 2 or 3 hours total on offense and are "done" until a wild hair gets them, because for the most part, combat now is just coding."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Jinsun says, "I just hate 95% of Achaea these days."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "To pretend that whole 3 hours was somehow torn from you is silly, when you're spending longer bitching about what 
    you perceive to have lost."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "RANT FOR A COMBINED TOTAL OF 5 HOURS ABOUT LOSING SYSTEM IT TOOK 3 HOURS TO CREATE."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "^ Logic."
    (Eye Nocturnum): Epiphany says, "Truefax."

    image
    AlexandreDaslin
  • AmanuAmanu Forge TreeMember Posts: 830 @ - Epic Achaean
    Not sure how much is unfair or bad but I think this cure system going to be awesome since I often use my smartphone on breaks and the idea that it keeps going during a d/c just raises the bar. I'll certainly make use of it on my tablet(running off smartphone's hotspot) while I wait for internet at the new home.

    TrillianaEpiphanySultani
  • VadimusesVadimuses Member Posts: 1,110 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Some interesting observations - besides not making the server-side curing suspectible to curing illusions, it's also not suspectible to bleeding illusions (remember the old 'you bleed for a billion hp' trick?), which means it has the luxury of just sending the exact amount of clot commands needed. It also knows every time exactly which command failed stupidity, and it does it again asap, another advantage client-side systems aren't given. It doesn't have the option of doubledo though if you wanted to have that on.
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,580 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'll use the server-side curing, that's sure. SVO remains an important part of my every scripts, and I still urge everyone to have a serious look at it.

    image
  • AmanuAmanu Forge TreeMember Posts: 830 @ - Epic Achaean
    Siduri said:

    I'll use the server-side curing, that's sure. SVO remains an important part of my every scripts, and I still urge everyone to have a serious look at it.

    Agreed. I'll still use SVO since @Vadimuses‌ seems to be getting these ideas together before Achaea makes their version on server side though one trumps the other in some way.

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sybell said:
    Furthermore, combat should be a competition between offensive capabilities of players, not between the specifics of their curing (although that will always play at least some role).
    I don't quite agree with this. Defence is as much part of combat as offence and can be an interesting challenge in itself. Working on "the specifics of ones curing" is a perfectly valid and fun part of combat and not any more or less "elitist" than working on the specifics of ones offence. If combat in Achaea was balanced in a way to make automated offence a quasi-requirement, this would be just as much of an issue.

    This isn't really about offence vs curing, but simply about dealing with things that are relevant to the game within the game. It's thus comparable with other such changes we've seen in the past, such as adding in-game maps and landmarks to replace the need for third party maps, adding projects/the crimes system/etc. to make stuff like yahoo groups for ministry organisation less important, increasing in-game help resources to replace the need for help from various websites, and so on.
    MakariosMelodieSenaRip
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Nemutaur said:
    I think in the end serpents will switch to trying to fool the client side affliction tracking to get us to switch priorities wrongly. Or actually illusioning other stuff like them shielding a lot so people who track that in their offense get boned. There will still be room for illusions, but if serpents are getting the tradeskill rework that people are hoping for with more sneakyness then illusions will not be playing a huge role in their offense anyway.
    We're getting a huge buff. Our bow accuracy is increasing and is being moved into a new skill called Archery. All the subterfuge skills are being converted into a new skillset called PeepingTom, so we can keep an eye on those mudsexers even more closely. Dstab? what's that? Deleted.
    image
    Kaie
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Okay, I'm just gonna come out and say this. Everyone posting how it's a great change and illusions were useless, yet are unaffected by either not playing a class that uses them, or simply just didn't use them, STFU. Your input is not beneficial and speaking simply to speak creates noise which hampers the message trying to be conveyed by those who did.

    Now, that being said. I don't think discussing it anywhere with a select group is a great idea. You get the opinion of a handful of players, not the opinion of the majority. I think if you want to make a significant change to a system, it's  best to let everyone know about it and offer some kind of feedback. Customers are not your enemy, they want you to succeed as much as you want to succeed. This is a big change for more than serpent, I can't speak for other classes since my experience is with Serpent and Jester. The impact is obvious on Serpent, less obvious on Jester apparently. However, breaking things down to a very general since, Jester as a class had two options.. lean on the puppetry crutch which is very time consuming and risky against classes that can prep limbs for an insta faster than you can fashion enough times or using illusions to throw the opponents defense into disarray.

    I'm not completely against this idea. I think illusions were becoming more and more useless as curing systems advanced. Many things failed and those that didn't often simply exploited a flaw that would be patched later. It was just a matter of time before they were dead. However, I am concerned and simply want reassured that we are going to adjust the classes that used it extensively to compensate. Illusions played a big role for Jester because it cannot acquire a true lock, it's too slow to overwhelm with afflictions outright and sticking aeon on people with fitness/shrugging required illusions. Even getting salve stacks going was easier done on illusions due to costs of actual breaks and stuff. So, there's a lot of slack left by this. My concern is that we'll hear the infamous "It's in the works." or "It's being looked into." again. Last time I heard this, it took 3 irl years to bring about like 5 changes that were not life altering the biggest being suicide mice, was utterly disappointing. It all has potential to be a great change, so long as appropriate adjustments are made.

    @Aktillum Hocuspocus could be devastating when used correctly, but life vision and anti-illusion made using it effectively difficult to pull off and time consuming to figure out what works and what doesn't.
    BluefAchimrst
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Came back to this thread to read the posts from those well-entrenched in the combat scene.

    Found too many abuse flags for me to want to come back.

    :/
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    TharvisAchimrstTrillianaUtianima
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Epiphany I'm glad that you came out of that crack haze enough to feel anything at all, even if it is disgust.

    First, you've missed the point of my post in your eagerness to make an attempt at some clever comment. I view this as a chance to get away from it, but simply expressed my concern as to whether or not classes other than serpent that were affected would be adjusted to compensate where illusions would have played a role. 3 irl years is a long ass time and for something that directly affects it, it's too long. Besides, isn't the point of this thread to express concerns?

    Second, not everyone played for free. Some people have invested hundreds and thousands into the game via credit purchases and what not. That makes them a customer and as such, it is perfectly normal for them to be concerned about things they invested in. So, back off and stop trying to make people feel shitty because they don't understand or agree with what's happening to their investment.


    BluefShirszae
  • HasarHasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean
    Question: Will Masks of lifevision be able to be returned @full price?

    I don't own one, but am curious.

  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Hasar said:
    Question: Will Masks of lifevision be able to be returned @full price?

    I don't own one, but am curious.
    That question was already asked and the answer was no. Pretty sure it will be the same case when veils are deleted.
    image
    Bluef
  • KaraiKarai Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Strata said:
    Hasar said:
    Question: Will Masks of lifevision be able to be returned @full price?

    I don't own one, but am curious.
    That question was already asked and the answer was no. Pretty sure it will be the same case when veils are deleted.
    Hopefully before I get the 1100 cr left for one, so I won't be both a self-loathing veil-user and broke. Just one or the other.
  • KyrtonKyrton CaliforniaMember Posts: 34 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Right now I cannot get mudlet on my system because I am having some weird error with yum in fedora so I can't download the dependencies to build it.  Anyhow, personal problems aside this curing system is awesome until I can get a better one installed on my computer in mudlet.  Thanks and good job guys!

    From yellow to blue to white the dots on the wave form the image. Shape and texture juxtaposed with the sensation they create on the eye and the sentiment it stirs within. Thus the ambiguity of "to feel."

    TrillianaZeon
  • NemutaurNemutaur GermanyMember Posts: 1,068
    Already Idea'd it but I'll mention it here as well. We need a way to get server side curing to ignore curing certain afflictions, such as the elemental disruptions if you have spirit disrupt or restoration breaks for vivi curing.

    Can't make the full switch to the server side curing until that is in, but already working on converting my system in a new mudlet profile.
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited April 2014
    Sybell said:
    I'll just say that an important factor for me is that we're running a game here, not a coding competition. If something is crucial to be able to fully participate in the game (and competent curing arguably falls into this category), it should be provided by the game, rather than rely on third-party offerings. Furthermore, combat should be a competition between offensive capabilities of players, not between the specifics of their curing (although that will always play at least some role).

    Speaking of Aetolia's version, I looked and theirs is running on 0.5s ticks these days, not 3s ones.
    May I introduce you to Iluv's infamous -1 button- script that he spent a few hours making. Has one for each of the 3-4 classes he has. (Yes, hold down F1 and win. Literally.)

    http://pastebin.com/qrCaiFcM

    AlcinaeFeral
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I want to make a full fledged Achaea AI. PvP, bashing, crafting, roleplaying, all automated, with the only human-sourced control being coding it. >_>
    AlexandreShirszae
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can't get banned for automation as long as it can pass a Turing test. Pretty sure that's in the rules.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    YilkonUtianima
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nim said:
    I want to make a full fledged Achaea AI. PvP, bashing, crafting, roleplaying, all automated, with the only human-sourced control being coding it. >_>
    This could make Hashan Relevant and make Cyrene PK overlords, do it @Nim fulfill @Antonius' prophecy.

    The Prophecy, as recorded from Multiclass update discussion:

    City novicehood and House overhaul for the remaining five cities (in about 8 months) 
    Daeir/Seftin/Jovolo all changing classes 30 times over
    Lots of threads about cats
    @Bonko joins Eleusis
    More cat threads
    Bonko leaves Eleusis
    Tradeskill split ------
    Bonko is issued 400 more times for things that aren't against the rules
    Classleads happening again
    More talisman promotions
    Targossas is sunk, citizens flock to whatever city they happen to 'not be aligned with' at the time
    **Hashan becomes truly relevant**
    **Cyrene becomes the PK overlords**
       ------- changes to affected classes 
    Bonko joins Mhaldor again
    More cat threads
    New class: Jovolo/Seftin/Daeir all die from over-elation at having ANOTHER option they have to choose from
    Class is nerfed into the ground
    Bonko quit Mhaldor for like the 50th time
    More classleads that make monks more OP
    Multiclass I have no expectation of seeing multiclass this year or the year after, unless Silas becomes Jimmy Neutron or something.

    In Nim we trust.
    UtianimaTrilliana
  • TarkanianTarkanian Member Posts: 254 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    ^ damn it, that made me laugh hard.
    Utianima
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nim said:
    Woah, @Achimrst. I know I'm pretty bold in my efforts to make Cyrene into the sovereign rulers of the world through bloody warfare and militaristic supremacy, but making Hashan relevant? I'm not that good. :c
    If you can do something as overwhelmingly difficult as making Cyrene PK overlords, I think you can make Hashan relevant.

  • BambizloBambizlo Member Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I may be in the minority here, but despite what statistics may show, illusions bring quite a bit of enjoyment to the game that is otherwise lost in its absence. It offers, by far, the most innovative customization for both offense and defense that isn't nearly comparable with any other ability, skillset, or artifact and thus also had the highest skillcap (assuming said illusions weren't just poached from someone else's hard work) in coming up with both worthwhile illusions and means to counter them. For that reason alone, it's understandable why statistically-speaking, the efficiency of illusions appears to be deceptively low (in the 15% efficacy range mentioned).

    By removing illusions you're effectively eliminating a whole realm of skilled play and turning away competitive, tactical players.

    While it's understandable that server-side curing coding is a world and a half easier if illusions could be considered, please consider slowing down (by 2x or more) the response time of server-side curing so that there would always be an advantage in using client-side systems that are susceptible to illusions. Don't remove illusions altogether.

    ShirszaeBluefSaibel
This discussion has been closed.