Gold Sinks

Shecks

I didn't state anything new, I simply summarized several statements, largely from Tecton, that various ideas are not, and will not be considered.

Accipiter

Gonna go out on a limb then and say that all of those ideas could be summarized by 'take what you are currently selling for credits and sell it for gold'.

Sarapis

Peak said:

@Sarapis @Tecton

5 item gold auction every quarter.

As multiple people have already pointed out, gold auctions are basically irrelevant to the gold economy.

Sarapis

Shecks said:

So far, a good rule of thumb is that any idea is not up for negotiation.

IRE's stance is pretty solid: Let the gold market is rise, it makes people buy more credits. (which makes the gold market rise)

You have no idea what you're talking about, and it's funny to hear you act as if a rising gold market is something you don't want, given how strongly you've objected to anything that might impact your ability to flood the market with as much gold as you can possibly produce, causing gold to incrementally de-value and causing the price of credits in gold to incrementally rise.

Sarapis

Accipiter said:

TLDR: IRE is a greedy business just like any other, but their revenue rests largely entirely on the health of their games.

FTFY.

Shecks

I'm in big favor of the gold market being stable.  And I think everyone should be able to buy whatever they want with whatever they are able to produce, regardless of the quantity.  Am I doing something wrong by bashing?  Bashing with the arties I bought, for bashing, from Achaea.com?  (and from bashing)

It was pretty dickish to call out IRE like that, the game staff has been really awesome, especially lately.  I hope that a character assassination isn't the only way to handle my point, however.  With that said, it's your prerogative to accept or deny any and all ideas generated from the playerbase, it's your business.

Mithridates

You can't have a stable market plus unlimited supply/demand/gold. Either one of those is going to fuck it up. 

Sarapis

@Shecks I'm not attacking you, but I am pointing out that you're literally championing two ideas that are directly at odds with each other. 

Of course you're not doing anything wrong by bashing all you want, btw. In no system would we limit you from bashing all you want. What we might do, however, is adjust the rewards from doing so, as we've done in the past (including multiple times in the past year).

Mithridates

Make admin-run bound credit lotteries. 

Sarapis

Are you trolling, @Mithridates?

Mithridates

Mithridates

Make the highways tollroads, and add agro bandit NPC's to the routes through the wilderness that kill you/take your money. Problem solved. 

Shecks

The fact that the credit market is as stable as it is is pretty incredible.  With gold generation that's pretty constant, and USD credit sales that fluctuate dramatically, seeing the market fluctuate even under 10% is impressive, but it actually stays under 3% most of the time, and if it creeps up or down, it does so very slowly.  Personally I don't think 6-7000 is that problematic, but I do see it slowly creeping up.  However, I think that the recent hike is mostly due to the blowback from the huge success that was the globe promotion, followed by the history talisman promotion, which as a credit purchaser, is quite a turn-off.  People not wanting to buy credits, or simply "waiting" (as I am) for the next promotion, is probably the #1 reason for increased credit prices, because as of now, fewer people are buying them (and subsequently selling them), while bashers continue to buy credits from CFS.  If a Mayan crown promotion started tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see credits drop as low as 62-6300 within 3 RL days.  After such a sale, however, they'd probably jump right back up.

Sarapis

This is one of the most successful promotions thus far in the past 12 months actually.

It is interesting though how relatively stable the credit market is. I think there's a psychological anchoring component to it. "Everybody" knows credits are worth somewhere between 6k and 7k. It can still certainly drift below or above that but I suspect that's one factor in why it's not wildly swinging.

Sarapis

We've only had two Talisman promotions (I think?), and yeah, they've both been popular. 

Cooper

Oh boy.

Buying thousands of credits worth of artefacts to be able to get gold faster IG is probably the stupidest idea I have ever heard on Achaea.

Let's do a little math here.

Shecks bought 9650 credits worth of artefacts (assuming he didn't buy any artefact packages). Today's prices that is 63,690,000 gold. He says he's only bought them to be able to bash gold faster. We're going to ignore the girdle, bracelet, sip ring, and regen ring because they don't help you kill things faster, and you don't need them as a dragon to bash anything so those were incredibly dumb purchases for bashing.

So let's assume the artefacts make him bash 20% faster (they don't). He says he bashes 45k an hour on average. Now let's also assume that the 20% will directly correlate to a 20% gold increase (it won't). That means 54,000 gold per hour, or 9,000 gold an hour more. To just make up the gold he's spent on artefacts with very, very, very generous numbers, he'll have to bash for over 7,000 hours (291 days). That's to break even. 

That sounds like a lot, right? Well, it is. I'm nearly level 105, and I've killed 123,771 denizens. Let's say it took me an average of 15 seconds to kill each one. That's 515 hours of bashing.

You'd have to multiply the amount of bashing I've personally done by 14 times to even -break even- with the amount of credits you've spent to increase the speed of your bashing.

Even if you've bought 3/4 of your artefacts with IG earned credits (not possible), that's still 72 days of bashing to earn a profit.

I mean, seriously, that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard from Achaea.

So please, the next time people don't listen to one of your ideas and you get pissed about it, just remember that you think buying 10k worth of credits to bash faster is a good investment.

Shecks

@Cooper

1) I've already bashed for ~15 (actual) days since I bought them.  I've bashed for well over 800 credits in that time.  It's hardly ridiculous for me to expect to pay off half of the artefacts this year, if not within the next few months, and perhaps all of them if I continue to play Achaea for a few more years.  By your math, adjusted for your bad input, puts me at 32% paid off already, although it's actually closer to about 15%.

2)  I make -far- more than 45k an hour.  Closer to 125-140k counting talismans, 80-90k without.

3)  All of my artefacts, in some form or another, are also good in PVP, so none of them are -completely- for bashing aside from crit pendant.

4)  Essence generation leading to TFs is a huge boost to PVP, and bashing faster allows me to have them nearly constantly.

5)  Survivability makes you bash faster.  Even with everything I have, plus runes, I can't max out route times without favors.  Saying otherwise is just as if not more stupid than what you're trying to paint me out to be.

6)  Nothing in Achaea is for "profit".  I bought artefacts for the same reason everyone does, to improve my character a little bit (with a side hope of not dying in 10 seconds to artied monks).  Bashing faster was a big part of it, but was hardly the only reason I chose to do so.  I think anyone with arties who bashes can say the same, including yourself.

Cooper

@Shecks

Your information is so contradictory it's not even funny. In one post you said a 'day' of bashing is 10 hours. Then you brag about the few times you've broken 700k per day total gold, not just dropped gold. That's 70k per hour with talismans. You wouldn't repeatedly point out how you've 'broken' 700k a few times if this was an average or below average day.

1. You might have bashed 800 credits in that time, but you would have gotten ~700 credits without the artefacts.

2. Your information is so contradictory it's not even funny. In one post you said a 'day' of bashing is 10 hours. Then you brag about the few times you've broken 700k per day total gold, not just dropped gold. That's 70k per hour with talismans. You wouldn't repeatedly point out how you've 'broken' 700k a few times if this was an average or below average day.

3. I'll just leave these quotes from you here:

"I paid OOC money for some of my artefacts, and the reason I did this was simple:  It was an investment to make my character able to generate they credits I paid back, via bashing."

"The -only- reason I bought most of these (aside from the veil) was to bash.  For gold.  The reason I did this is because I did some figures and felt that in the long run, it was a decent investment, because I'd come out able to bash for some other things for my character down the line."

"I hope it's clear that the reason I bash for so much gold is because I spend a massive amount of money and time on bashing."

"Girdle/bracelet (essentially only useful for bashing, thanks to %-based attacks)"

"sip/regen ring (good for pvp, but primarily purchased for hunting)"

"Talismans mean nothing to me"

"The following artefacts that I have purchased are either only for bashing" (go on to list veil, gem, girdle, bracelet, crit pendant, gauntlets, lash, sip ring, regen ring).

4. Irrelevant to your gold/hour or your original statement of you only bought the artefacts for bashing.

5. The only time survivability makes you bash faster is when you can't survive the things you are bashing but still do enough dps to take them down. You're a dragon, nothing that you should be hunting solo should slow you down even a little bit. So again, irrelevant.

6. Please refer to the plethora of quotes above where you quite clearly and repeatedly stated that the ONLY reason you bought your artefacts was to gain gold faster bashing, and that they were useless/not very useful for pvp (aside from the sip ring).

It's quite clear that you don't even know what bullshit is spewing out of your mouth. So next time someone disagrees with you or doesn't like your idea, remember that what you are thinking you are saying/doing in your head is not even close to what you are actually saying and doing.

Shecks

Actually, I took some time to reflect and...

You're right.  I'm completely lying about everything, and my only goal in posting any of that was to deceive the masses into my conspiracy theory that I can bash more than I can actually bash.  Busted.

Cooper

It's like Mt. Gox all over again.

Sylvance

I honestly can't tell if he's trolling or not. This is messing with my emotions

Tecton

Let's keep it civil and on-topic, gents.

Jovolo

Jovolo said:

Lesson purchases! 400,000 gold for 850 lessons. 200,000 gold for 425 lessons. 100,000 gold for 200 lessons. 50,000 gold for 85 lessons. Eta: please. Just one addition of many! Give the middlegrounders between novices and omni-trans to work towards and incentivize big gold sinks while rewarding for immense efforts with basic resources - using their class skills!

This is definitely a no, then?

Tharvis

Jovolo said:

Jovolo said:

Lesson purchases! 400,000 gold for 850 lessons. 200,000 gold for 425 lessons. 100,000 gold for 200 lessons. 50,000 gold for 85 lessons. Eta: please. Just one addition of many! Give the middlegrounders between novices and omni-trans to work towards and incentivize big gold sinks while rewarding for immense efforts with basic resources - using their class skills!

This is definitely a no, then?

seems a bit... very cheap, compared to credits. The bigger packages anyway. the 50,000 gold for 85 lessons sounds about on par if you compare them to credit prices of a year ago (aka 4K per credit).

Kuy

Tharvis said:

Jovolo said:

Jovolo said:

Lesson purchases! 400,000 gold for 850 lessons. 200,000 gold for 425 lessons. 100,000 gold for 200 lessons. 50,000 gold for 85 lessons. Eta: please. Just one addition of many! Give the middlegrounders between novices and omni-trans to work towards and incentivize big gold sinks while rewarding for immense efforts with basic resources - using their class skills!

This is definitely a no, then?

seems a bit... very cheap, compared to credits. The bigger packages anyway. the 50,000 gold for 85 lessons sounds about on par if you compare them to credit prices of a year ago (aka 4K per credit).

Well, they should be much cheaper than credits.

Lessons do exactly one thing, and will only ever do exactly one thing.  Credits, however, have such a variety of uses that any ten people could want them for different reasons.

Those same ten people will want lessons for exactly one thing.  (This is, of course, unless something has drastically been changed of which I am unaware.)

Jovolo

This point of having them cheaper than credit equivalents is because if they were the same - you could just buy the credits instead. As Kuy pointed out, credits have a variety of uses from being converted into gold, lessons, artifacts or mayan crowns, whereas lessons will always only be used to increase a character's skills. I still put them at slightly above how much you can purchase house and city credits at, because you don't want to make such a method of gold sink too lucrative. 

It also just makes starting up and investing time in a character more rewarding and frankly addicting than having to grind for many, many, many (read; Too many) hours to get like 40% access to only your class skills at most. 

It also would be seriously effective as a gold sink. I bet plenty of people would earn and throw down 400k gold for 850 lessons, which isn't even half a transcendent skill, and still a lot of money, so the long-lasting potential of this is not arguable as I see it. There will always be people in this game that want, need, and will use a slightly easier method of transcending their character''s skills.

Xith

When is the next lesson sale?

Anticipating multiclass I think there are probably some people that will buy 5 classes worth (26,040) lessons and others at least half as much. Jingle jangle.

Xith

You reach into your stocking and pull out some gold sovereigns.

You have 124 items and 8190 gold sovereigns.

Antonius

Xith said:

When is the next lesson sale?

Anticipating multiclass I think there are probably some people that will buy 5 classes worth (26,040) lessons and others at least half as much. Jingle jangle.

That strikes me as being an incredibly silly thing to do considering there are no details about multiclass available yet.

Sarapis

Jovolo said:

This point of having them cheaper than credit equivalents is because if they were the same - you could just buy the credits instead. As Kuy pointed out, credits have a variety of uses from being converted into gold, lessons, artifacts or mayan crowns, whereas lessons will always only be used to increase a character's skills. I still put them at slightly above how much you can purchase house and city credits at, because you don't want to make such a method of gold sink too lucrative. 

It also just makes starting up and investing time in a character more rewarding and frankly addicting than having to grind for many, many, many (read; Too many) hours to get like 40% access to only your class skills at most. 

It also would be seriously effective as a gold sink. I bet plenty of people would earn and throw down 400k gold for 850 lessons, which isn't even half a transcendent skill, and still a lot of money, so the long-lasting potential of this is not arguable as I see it. There will always be people in this game that want, need, and will use a slightly easier method of transcending their character''s skills.

We'd never sell lessons for gold, especially considering you can already just use the credit market to buy the credits to buy the lessons.