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Gold Sinks

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  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    Aktillum said:
    What's that I hear in the distance? Is it...is it the Itinerant Bazaar coming to town?


    I wouldn't mind seeing NPC armor repair in Achaea. Turn it into a way to extend the life of weapons/armor before they decay.
    Actually I think forging is a good gold sink.

    say a rapier sells for 100 credits.

    If we pretend that the credits are 6700 each and that person bought them with gold that's 670k per rapier. knights require two so 1.34 mil gold for a set of rapiers.

    That gold however is transfered to the forger. However that forger spent a fuck ton from a npc shop to buy steel to make those rapiers.

    Meaning in other words that's a pretty decent gold sink.

    --
    On the other hand since Forging seems so boring and an automation trap, and I think there's very few active forgers to begin with.. Something like this might be more worth wild.

    Not seen or heard anything about weaponry changes though so I could be wrong about all of this.

  • RangorRangor
    How about dem IRE taxes guys.

    Pay 20% of every coin that changes hands to the IRE coffers.
    image
  • BluefBluef Delos
    Tesha said:
    NPC armor repair (until weaponry changes?) would be used like crazy for the extremely high-end ultra-rare weapons. The problem with that is there are only a few of those. The other weapons would just be cheaper to replace.
    Rather than armour repair, I'd like to see armour customisation brought to somewhere everyone can access (like Delos) for gold. I know Houses can already offer stylised armour. It would be sort of neat if the rest of the world could sink some gold into making their armour look a little unusual. 
  • SuladanSuladan
    I think @Aktillum had a good idea on the weapon/armour repair. Would have to be NPC that does the repair so it would actually qualify as a gold sink. Could be both exorbitantly expensive and decently expensive - scaling based on what type of weapon/armor and the stats on it. Which would make sense as a cheap sword is much easier to bang back together than finely sharpening a masterpiece. 

    Would max bring decay up to 30 RL days. That way people would still want to buy artefacts so they didn't have to bother with it - plus in the long run it'd be cheaper. 

    Coding-wise would be the formula for cost, which would have figured out and played with a bit - but otherwise I don't think adding a bit of decay time onto an item or the few commands for player interaction would be too hard core or overly time consuming.

    The other advantages to this is that a) people would actually pay it - 100+k for super good rapiers or fantastic armour and 10s+k for decent equipment. So it acts as a sink at all levels and would get used. b) Plus it's not a one-shot deal, it just keeps going. and c) it's something that people might even buy RL credits to convert to gold to pay for. 

    I've heard several times that many higher level established players don't bash all that much and many others even if they do bash don't obsessively spend 10 hours a day doing it. So if they need a chunk of gold, they could buy credits to lay out for the upkeep. This would also stimulate the credit market as right now I don't know why anybody would sell credits unless they wanted to buy a ship. 

    How's that sound?
    The Truths hurt. Always.
  • TreyTrey
    Suladan said:
    I think @Aktillum had a good idea on the weapon/armour repair. Would have to be NPC that does the repair so it would actually qualify as a gold sink. Could be both exorbitantly expensive and decently expensive - scaling based on what type of weapon/armor and the stats on it. Which would make sense as a cheap sword is much easier to bang back together than finely sharpening a masterpiece. 

    Would max bring decay up to 30 RL days. That way people would still want to buy artefacts so they didn't have to bother with it - plus in the long run it'd be cheaper. 

    Coding-wise would be the formula for cost, which would have figured out and played with a bit - but otherwise I don't think adding a bit of decay time onto an item or the few commands for player interaction would be too hard core or overly time consuming.

    The other advantages to this is that a) people would actually pay it - 100+k for super good rapiers or fantastic armour and 10s+k for decent equipment. So it acts as a sink at all levels and would get used. b) Plus it's not a one-shot deal, it just keeps going. and c) it's something that people might even buy RL credits to convert to gold to pay for. 

    I've heard several times that many higher level established players don't bash all that much and many others even if they do bash don't obsessively spend 10 hours a day doing it. So if they need a chunk of gold, they could buy credits to lay out for the upkeep. This would also stimulate the credit market as right now I don't know why anybody would sell credits unless they wanted to buy a ship. 

    How's that sound?
    The bolded is incorrect. If they ever put it in (which they won't), it could function identically to jewelry repair, where the gold given to the jeweler goes 'POOF' and is consumed by repairing the item.

  • NizarisNizaris The Holy City of Mhaldor
    RE: armour and weapon repair.

    I could see something like the following working:

    Armour and/or weapons are repaired by anyone so skilled in forging. Cost is in gold (variable) as well as commodities (static).
    Each time that the item is repaired, one or more of the following happen:
    • Cost of repair (in terms of gold) increases, while commodities cost remains the same.
    • Length of time gained by the repair decreases (30 RL days gained on first repair, 20 days on second, etc).
    • Odds increase that the item will be completely destroyed in the process.
    • Odds increase that the item will be reduced in stats.
    image
  • PenwizePenwize
    Now that the topic is back onto actual gold sinks, @Sarapis what are your thoughts on putting heron feathers into a shop in Genji or something at fair price?  Wouldn't replace wings, due to the convenience of having them always available and their limitless use, but would supplement the demand of those who can't yet afford wings (or can't justify the 800cr immediate investment), but still want/need access to the clouds for various reasons.
  • MithridatesMithridates
    taxes

  • RileyRiley
    Go back to gold dropping when you qq, above a certain level, requiring banks to be used and taxed at different rates per level range
    image
  • PenwizePenwize
    Riley said:
    Go back to gold dropping when you qq, above a certain level, requiring banks to be used and taxed at different rates per level range
    Eh, people would just wind up using ship strongboxes, subs houses or something else to avoid the taxes.
  • FeralFeral
    Remove messages and raise the price of letters. ;)
  • DecanDecan
    edited March 2014
    One thing that needs to happen is that whatever is bought from the gold input needs to be decay, no point in gold auctioning things and getting non-decay options because eventually there is no need to continue to buy them. Same goes for item repairing, i believe forged items are more of a gold sink than repairing would be, but once i get that uber weapon/armor it would be cheaper and far better to keep it repaired, however to make it initially it is likely that hundreds of those items had to be made and scrapped to get it in the first place and that is true for all items worth having indefinitely. Also letting that super speed axe, or super speed rapier decay is all some people on the business end of them have to look forward to. The idea of custom descriptions on forged goods for gold sinking is pretty nice, though because it is a true sink, whereby the original cost of the items isnt changed (and then doesnt change other dynamics inivolved) but the loss of gold is still there. Perhaps Clans should have to pay "org dues" which would force the clans to require dues of their own, base the org dues on membership levels, and then atleast there is a gold sink which has to be paid for either by cities, if its city owned, or individuals if its private. May even cut out the inactive clans that no one uses too.
    image
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!
    only problem I have with the clan suggestion there is OOC clans @Decan, as pumping gold into those can't exactly be justified by any RP
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • DecanDecan
    good point but achaea could probably do better with fewer OOC clans
    image
  • CooperCooper
    Adding in gold decay or forcing people to use banks will only raise credit market prices. At that point it's either use it or lose it and you will be forced to buy credits at whatever price to maintain the gold and save on bank fees.

  • DecanDecan
    i didnt mean gold should decay, just the things you buy with it should. For instance, collectable decks were a type of gold sink, but because they were non-decay there is a point where you no longer need to spend gold on them, except occasionally if at all. Obviously this no longer applies, but is only one example. Another is gold auction artifacts. Its a one time gold sink, which helps each time we have one but is like a bandaid for the problem. The goal would be to have almost as much gold leaving as is being made, to create a more finite limit on the total amount of gold in circulation. The problem is there are probably billions thats no longer in circulation due to inactive people with large bank accounts. Its a hairy situation to manage how ever its done.
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  • CooperCooper
    Collectible decks were not a gold sink. They were cheap to buy but limited availability. They exchanged good between players but didn't destroy it.

  • TrevizeTrevize
    Personally, I'd like to see a lot more flavor tradeskills like tailoring/jewellery/heraldry/bookie/etc, all of which involve gold loss - potential gain for the license holder, but gold loss for the market. Customizable armor/weapons (Tecton or Sarapis said that was coming?) would be a nice touch. I can't think of other new ones at the moment, but creating both more player-made flavor (though less freedom than tailoring/jewellery, please. maybe something like cartels to control/limit designs?), and getting rid of gold in the process sounds like a win-win.
    Current scripts: GoldTracker 1.2, mData 1.1
    Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
    Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
    Latest update: 9/26/2015 better character name handling in GoldTracker, separation of script and settings, addition of gold report and gold distribute aliases.
  • NimNim
    Cooper said:
    Collectible decks were not a gold sink. They were cheap to buy but limited availability. They exchanged good between players but didn't destroy it.

    I wonder what's so wrong with that, though. Gold sinks are important as long as you have gold spouts, but if there were more ways to get gold from other players, there might be less need for gold spouts, and thus potentially less need for gold sinks.

    Not that rare collectibles are the most ideal form of this, of course - just generally speaking.

  • BluefBluef Delos
    edited March 2014
    Trevize said:
    Personally, I'd like to see a lot more flavor tradeskills like tailoring/jewellery/heraldry/bookie/etc, all of which involve gold loss - potential gain for the license holder, but gold loss for the market. Customizable armor/weapons (Tecton or Sarapis said that was coming?) would be a nice touch. I can't think of other new ones at the moment, but creating both more player-made flavor (though less freedom than tailoring/jewellery, please. maybe something like cartels to control/limit designs?), and getting rid of gold in the process sounds like a win-win.
    Love the idea of cartels @Trevize. Speaking of crafting goldsinks, I was looking over the United Union of Crafters the other day and realized I almost never use my roleplayed tailor's mark anymore. Instead I almost always just pay to remove the markentirely. I'm not sure why I started doing that. Anyway, if designer labels were something that could be added to crafted items in sort of the same way emblazons are (but not via heraldry obviously), that would be very cool and a potential gold sink too, especially if you have to register it, pay extra to have it set onto a piece, colour it, etc. 
  • ShecksShecks
    I posted this in rants earlier by accident, but here goes again:


    I technically quit forums, but I couldn't help but weigh in with a couple of ideas (which I already submitted in game).

    1)  Create the opposite of CFS (CFS- credits for purchase), which allows people to put up offers to -buy- credits, like any normal currency exchange.  This would lower credit prices dramatically, as it would no longer be a seller-controlled market.  If a player uses either market, they may not use the other for 24 hours (which prevents gaming the market and minimizing gap).

    2)  Sell stat potions for gold, since Mayan Crowns are out.
  • AnedhelAnedhel
    edited March 2014
    Make forging worth it, and increase commodity prices by a ton, so that you don't have to use a gajillion steel to get anything decent. That way, though people are buying less of it, more people'd probably try their hand at it, so I suspect a bigger effect'd be felt across the game.

    Have prices for commodities been looked at, in general, for a while? I remember prices being the same from RL years ago, and it's probably time to look into them, to reflect Achaeans' pockets. Same goes for empty vials.

    ETA: When I say 'a ton', I mostly mean like, double 'em, so you're paying 182 for steel. Paying 910 gold for the comms for one rapier is fine, if you only have to forge, say, fifty to get something good, instead of three hundred.
  • AntoniusAntonius
    I'd rather pay 20k+ on comms per rapier and be guaranteed to get something worthwhile every time. There are all kinds of advantages to not having variable stats on weapons when it comes to balancing, no idea if that's something the weaponry and tradeskill changes will include though.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • TreyTrey
    Antonius said:
    I'd rather pay 20k+ on comms per rapier and be guaranteed to get something worthwhile every time. There are all kinds of advantages to not having variable stats on weapons when it comes to balancing, no idea if that's something the weaponry and tradeskill changes will include though.
    I really think there should be varied stats up to a certain point, but I wouldn't say no to there being say, a much higher cost/weapon and a -usable- base stats, for instance.

  • DecanDecan
    usable base stats are personal preference, i dont think making it easier to produce high end forgings is better, eventually everyone starts forging them, and then there is high supply versus lower demand, not to mention at that point its not whatt you can make, its how much you charge, and there will always be someone trying to undercut the compitition.
    image
  • AnedhelAnedhel
    Mellowing out extremes would be good, yeah, so more weapons are usable, but less are extreme (unlike the rapier anomaly of the current status quo), and you can make weapons decay faster, so they need to be forged more often.
  • ShecksShecks
    edited March 2014
    This is why credits are so high:

    Credits currently available for purchase:
         427 credits at  6639 gold per credit.
           9 credits at  6640 gold per credit.
          15 credits at  6644 gold per credit.
           5 credits at  6648 gold per credit.
         134 credits at  6650 gold per credit.

    Create the following requirement:
    If your offer will be the new lowest offer, it must be 20 gold per credit lower than the current lowest.

    Current credit price would be at 6200-6500, if not less, if that rule was instated.
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