Gold Sinks

Tharvis

@Xith I think she means Anarchaea. Basically Achaea, but I think it was some.. test server? Can't remember

Antonius

From what I remember, drives got corrupted on the server and had to be sent off to a data recovery firm. While that was happening they restored backups and there was a period where people did whatever the hell they wanted because it was all going to vanish anyway and nothing mattered. It was a hell of a lot of fun.

Sarapis

Yep, correct. One of the worst 6 days of my professional career. Sooo stressful for us (the being down, not the Anarchaea.)

Also, wasn't just that our drives got corrupted - that sort of thing is an eventuality you plan for. The terrible part was that our ISP at the time (Wolfpaw.net) was in charge, contractually, of regular backups for us (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, etc).. After our drives got corrupted, they informed us they hadn't run a backup in over a month. *panic*

Bluef

Sarapis said:

Yep, correct. One of the worst 6 days of my professional career. Sooo stressful for us (the being down, not the Anarchaea.)

I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was such a stressful time for you @Sarapis.    

I just remember the absolute chaos and fun of doing anything and everything you ever wanted to and there being no consequences. Bluef was pretty young back then, but she re-totemed most of Hashan, kicked out all the city (she was Ambassador at the time) and inducted all the city enemies. Ah, the glory days that never really were.

Antonius

Sarapis said:

Also, wasn't just that our drives got corrupted - that sort of thing is an eventuality you plan for. The terrible part was that our ISP at the time (Wolfpaw.net) was in charge, contractually, of regular backups for us (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, etc).. After our drives got corrupted, they informed us they hadn't run a backup in over a month. *panic*

Oh, that's going to hurt. I've heard tons of horror stories about backups not being done in the last few years. We had a drive disappear at work a month or so ago, and while there were backups we were told it was going to take a week to restore them. Fortunately it was just the web server installation rather than our databases so we just installed everything again (in about a day) rather than waiting for them.

Shecks

Sarapis said:

Yep, correct. One of the worst 6 days of my professional career. Sooo stressful for us (the being down, not the Anarchaea.)

Also, wasn't just that our drives got corrupted - that sort of thing is an eventuality you plan for. The terrible part was that our ISP at the time (Wolfpaw.net) was in charge, contractually, of regular backups for us (hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, etc).. After our drives got corrupted, they informed us they hadn't run a backup in over a month. *panic*

I'm a network administrator, and I can say that I have never* had that happen.

* it happens sometimes.

Aktillum

1 hour artefact rentals for gold.

Submarines.

Gleam as a desirable commodity (combat enhancing utility)

Xith

Horsey rides.

Cheese arrows (to shoot mice).

Submarines.

Bluef

Xith said:

Horsey rides.

Cheese arrows (to shoot mice).

Submarines.

One off the other IRE games (Lusternia maybe?) has an automated carriage that drags you around the realm to certain landmarks. Might be a neat add-on, especially if the driver pointed out historic sites along the routes.

Once upon a time the mimes in Delos used to perform tricks, magic, etc. for gold donations. I'd love to see that brought back. 

Love to see the empty marketplace in Delos filled with those kinds of interactive vendors and performers too, auction houses, or carts that people could rent and troll around Delos hawking their own wares in place of (incredibly) expensive storefront, which are few and in low supply because the same four people own multiple shops in every major city.

Kazu

Let's also not rule out the possibility of events as a gold sink either. I know a few of the events of the past have required some sort of gold investment. The most notable ones that come to mind were the fundraiser for the library in Thera and the building of the Lantis bridge. I'm sure Achaean players will empty their gold reserves for a chance to immortalize themselves on a building donation plaque in an area. Most people want to leave a mark. The soiree was also a huge hit, and had a really high-end auction that removed a ton of gold as well.

Antonius

Events make poor gold sinks because they're uncommon and take up such a huge amount of admin time.

Languages are a decent candidate for being a gold sink if there are changes to make learning them actually worthwhile.

Rispok

Allow furniture placement on the deck or bow of a ship. I want a giant sapphire throne from which to fish.

Or a porcelain one on my poop deck.

Jurixe

Antonius said:

Events make poor gold sinks because they're uncommon and take up such a huge amount of admin time. Languages are a decent candidate for being a gold sink if there are changes to make learning them actually worthwhile.

In regards to the above, @Ellodin and I were just talking about it today. I was saying that I thought it would be really funny if the Dawnlord and the Tyrannus sat down to a meeting, and both could only speak their respective city languages, so they needed to talk through translators and hope the translator translated their intentions/understood the other person's intent right. Of course it's relatively too late to implement this in Achaea, but sometimes I wonder if things might not be so much more interesting, if maybe difficult to communicate, without a common tongue. Languages would definitely have a purpose then. 

Right now I see them more as hobbies than anything else, I guess - something to spend your gold on to show off and if you like collecting things. There have been a few more instances of places that only speak their racial language, which is cool to see and definitely should be kept up.

Blujixapug

Antonius said:

Events make poor gold sinks because they're uncommon and take up such a huge amount of admin time.

It can also feel crummy and manipulative to be presented with a "pay more gold than anyone else to win this event" scenario. Stuff like the Bazaar is fun. Financing that bridge over the Pachacacha was nice in that players were included, but I don't think it works if it's such an obvious gold siphon.

Nim

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

Bluef

Antonius said:

Events make poor gold sinks because they're uncommon and take up such a huge amount of admin time. Languages are a decent candidate for being a gold sink if there are changes to make learning them actually worthwhile.

I would have placed agree on this because I think language learning is awesome, but in addition to changes that make learning them actually worthwhile,there would also need to be some kind of change made to the overall cost involved. Yes, I know we're talking about gold sinks, but the costs as they are now are really unrealistic when scaled against everything else players purchase as necessity in the game. 

Bluef

Nim said:

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

The only problem I see with this is rogues. Making them specialise in a city tongue further cuts them off from the rest of Sapience and others like them. 

Edit: Sorry for the double post. Didn't seem NIm's idea until I'd already posted on language learning.

Shecks

Nim said:

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

This seems a little extreme but I like the concept. There really has to be a common language, but perhaps having to learn it to use it would make it a little more interesting. Or get rid of common and allow people to learn other city's languages. You could easy create an I affiliated "Highlands" language or something for rogues, or they could just learn city language(s) to get along.

Sarapis

Nim said:

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

No offense to Jurixe or you, but this is literally one of the worst ideas in the history of Achaea.

Xith

Delete comprehension necklace for sure. It always bothered me.

Anedhel

I wouldn't mind some more quests being put in that require you speak the quest-giver's racial language.

Sylvance

Xith said:

Horsey rides.

Let's not revisit this.

Sarapis said:

Nim said:

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

No offense to Jurixe or you, but this is literally one of the worst ideas in the history of Achaea.

I seem to remember that MKO does something similar to this (i.e. no common tongue). I also seem to remember a good deal more inter-faction rage on both sides of the screen in that game. Makes it impossible, for instance, to TELL an IC enemy etc that you just want to be left alone tonight to hunt after a crap day at work. Just my 5c.

Xith

Anedhel said:

I wouldn't mind some more quests being put in that require you speak the quest-giver's racial language.

Alariel, Keeper of the Menagerie says in Hashani, "I anything can't do right since because tengu."

Jurixe

Sarapis said:

Nim said:

I agree with @Jurixe. Delete Achaean, default CT to city language, make newbie language-less, and something for OOC clans and maybe orders.

No offense to Jurixe or you, but this is literally one of the worst ideas in the history of Achaea.

</3

Well, I never said it would be good implementation in practice, I said I thought it would be funny :P While I think it could be interesting, I also appreciate that having a single common language just simplifies things so much more.

Siduri

EDIT: Sorry, not appropriate. I'll shut up.

Crythril

Gold sinks are something I've thought about for a while now and I'd figure I'd share some possible solutions from my point of view. And I think they're pretty valid because I've always been part of the problem. And I say this because, if these were to be implemented, I would be less likely to bash.

Problem:
Too much gold is generated everyday, and not enough gold is taken out of the system.
The excessive gold is directed towards CFS for CREDITS, or credits for CROWNS.
CFS prices inflates. It will never crash, just, the prices reflect what DRAGONS would pay for, not the overall player base. I mean, 3000 gold to a level 50 may not mean the same thing as 3000 gold to a dragon. If you understand what I'm saying.

Solution 1: Another gold nerf.
The amount of gold generation needs to be lowered again for the high tier places.
And some quests.
The places that need to be hit...are the areas where top tier bashers go.

Solution 2: Change to the denizen spawning system.
Currently denizens spawn on a fixed timer.
This allows for bashers to hold a "lock" on certain hunting areas for maximum gold gain.
I don't know if I'm using the term correctly but isn't this considered "meta-gaming?"
This also makes people think, "Oh, X is hunting, well fuck it."
So what if denizens repop at a new formula with a random factor.
For instance, if something repops at 60 minutes, it can be modified to 45min + 1-30 RANDOM min.

Solution 3: Change to health and vitality.
Something I just thought of out of the blue, but like how restoration used to require gold to make, maybe these can be changed to require some gold.

Solution 4: Removal of ink milling and "harvest-able" diamond dust.
Inks, I think were a solid gold sink. Tattoos and runelore are heavily used and Rurin prices weren't really that bad in my opinion.
So when multiclass comes in and trade skills become independent, maybe inkmilling and harvest-able diamond dust can be deleted. Just raise the amount of dust stock in Rurin shops.

These are some ideas off the top of my head.
Thanks for reading.

Shecks

Crythril said:

Gold sinks are something I've thought about for a while now and I'd figure I'd share some possible solutions from my point of view. And I think they're pretty valid because I've always been part of the problem. And I say this because, if these were to be implemented, I would be less likely to bash.

Problem:
Too much gold is generated everyday, and not enough gold is taken out of the system.
The excessive gold is directed towards CFS for CREDITS, or credits for CROWNS.
CFS prices inflates. It will never crash, just, the prices reflect what DRAGONS would pay for, not the overall player base. I mean, 3000 gold to a level 50 may not mean the same thing as 3000 gold to a dragon. If you understand what I'm saying.

Solution 1: Another gold nerf.
The amount of gold generation needs to be lowered again for the high tier places.
And some quests.
The places that need to be hit...are the areas where top tier bashers go.

Massive amounts of gold will be generated, regardless of any of these proposed changes.  If you lower gold drops, people who bash for gold are going to continue to farm the top 5-ish best places, which doesn't solve anything for anyone, it just wastes more of our time for the same amount of gold, without affected the market prices, or lower level bashing.  Bad fixes.

Solution 2: Change to the denizen spawning system.
Currently denizens spawn on a fixed timer.
This allows for bashers to hold a "lock" on certain hunting areas for maximum gold gain.
I don't know if I'm using the term correctly but isn't this considered "meta-gaming?"
This also makes people think, "Oh, X is hunting, well fuck it."
So what if denizens repop at a new formula with a random factor.
For instance, if something repops at 60 minutes, it can be modified to 45min + 1-30 RANDOM min.

Randomizing respawns has been suggested and denied, not sure why.  Probably because the point of bashing areas is to bash them.  Why would you make it inconvenient to bash an area that only has one purpose: to be bashed... ?  And if returning to an area to bash it when it respawns is metagaming, then bashing for experience itself is metagaming.  Unless you have a serious beef with fairies.  I'm going to say this solution is bad because literally everyone would hate it, if it were implemented.

Solution 3: Change to health and vitality.
Something I just thought of out of the blue, but like how restoration used to require gold to make, maybe these can be changed to require some gold.

This is nowhere even close to being enough gold to matter, and only affects a small handful of classes.  A gold sink needs be in the 500k - millions range, needs to be repeatable, and accessible to everyone.  Making refills cost a few thousand gold more... I don't think I would even notice it, nor would the credit market.

Solution 4: Removal of ink milling and "harvest-able" diamond dust.
Inks, I think were a solid gold sink. Tattoos and runelore are heavily used and Rurin prices weren't really that bad in my opinion.
So when multiclass comes in and trade skills become independent, maybe inkmilling and harvest-able diamond dust can be deleted. Just raise the amount of dust stock in Rurin shops.

Just not going to happen, and wouldn't matter anyways, same reason as above.

These are some ideas off the top of my head.
Thanks for reading.

Like I said, gold sinks need to be a HUGE amount of gold to impact the credit market, to reflect the fact that several million gold is farmed daily (I'd guess somewhere between 2-10 million, depending on the day).  Tweaking things to cost a few more gold is not going to impact anything, at all.  If you want to see changes, you need a way to funnel a significant chunk of that gold into something -other- than CFS.  To do that you have to have something people want more than credits.

This is why I came up with the idea of buying bound MC's in game.  It solves the problem of not being able to get them outside of promotional sales, and it also allows people to sink millions of gold into bound MCs that they can spend on RP items, toys, pets, mildly helpful combat accessories, and the big one for the gold sink idea: Stat Vials.  Stat vials are perfect as gold sinks because they aren't significantly OP (for the price), they can be purchased repeatedly (a one-time gold sink doesn't really function well as a gold sink - see: ships), and because nobody wants to pay for them with RL money.

I would definitely be willing to drop a few hundred thou on an MC to get an extra STR or DEX for a while.  Since the MC is bound, I can't flip it for credits/gold, and spending the gold on the MC would eliminate that gold from the game without negatively affecting any other market.  Also, this works as a gold sink, because what you get for the money is worth it, compared to just dropping a million gold on CFS every few days, but it isn't overwhelmingly strong, and doesn't actually require adding anything new or OP to the game, as everything in the SoW can already be purchased, just not with gold.

Shecks

Really I can't think of a better possible gold sink than paying 300-500k for an extra stat for a couple of days.  For most people, that's two days straight of bashing, or more, just for a single stat.  To put that in perspective, I can get two stats from a purple ink and a runewarden.

Nim

Crythril said:

Solution 2: Change to the denizen spawning system.
Currently denizens spawn on a fixed timer.
This allows for bashers to hold a "lock" on certain hunting areas for maximum gold gain.
I don't know if I'm using the term correctly but isn't this considered "meta-gaming?"
This also makes people think, "Oh, X is hunting, well fuck it."
So what if denizens repop at a new formula with a random factor.
For instance, if something repops at 60 minutes, it can be modified to 45min + 1-30 RANDOM min.

I don't see why this is not already true.

Shecks

We don't need to screw up how bashing works, or reduce gold income into the game, which would have unintended adverse affecst on a hundred things gold is used for in the game.

All we need is somewhere to spend our gold other than CFS.