Change To Contracts / Marks

Bluef

Arador said:

Yeah I am sorry but citizenship, divine order, house (sorry Targossas, too soon?) personal character development, friendships, loyalty and alignment are going to dwarf Mark Faction in the decisions of any character. Why do people keep going on as if joining Mark should overrule everything else about their character?

I can completely understand the desire to maintain the ideologies related to factional roleplay. I have to question, however, why this system that @Silas is suggesting has to be an in-game mechanic. Why couldn't this simply be a roleplayed reasoning the Ivory Mark uses to justify their contracts? If the powers that be in the Ivory Mark find the plight of the weak to be justified, then why can't it simply be understood to be so and thereby perpetuate "Good"?

Honestly, if people think THIS is hard to roleplay I think you're in for a rude awakening to just how necessary it sometimes is to roleplay big changes when new Houses and multiclassing come in. Bluef is old enough to remember Autoclass too, and if we could roleplay through that rigamarole, Marks can deal with this new system.

Silas

Nobody's arguing the validity of the Mark contracts under the current system, it's just silly that we can't dispute how these contracts work since there are no other hardcoded options for us to make use of.

For years, Shallam wouldn't allow people to join the Quisalis Mark because they didn't want their citizens to be assassins, because that was a tag that ran counter to the city's ideals at the time. That was fine, since the Ivory Mark was there to provide the same service with a shiny reskin.

In the current system, neither of the hardcoded options are suitable for many cities and/or characters, so the system has failed to cater to the players. That's the job of the admins, at the end of the day - to cater to the players and build a game world that allows people to play their characters in the ways that they want to (within reason). If it was possible for us to ignore the two Mark systems, and allow Targossian citizens to RP hiring Targossian "Marks" on targets, we'd go with that, but I imagine the admins would take a dim view of that very quickly when the issues started flying.

So, we ask for changes to the systems that have been implemented.

Since it's become relevant, I also sent the following email to Tecton this morning when I first saw this thread, which I'll share here:

Hey,

Not emailing to complain, just wanted to get in touch about an idea we were bandying about for Targossas before the mark change, since the Quisalis org is incompatible with Targ's ideals but assassins in and of themselves are not. The idea is more pressing now considering the sweeping changes made to the mark system, so it seems like a good idea to pitch it.

Right now in Targossas, the current mark system would be banned, because we can't justify our marks completing contracts on random targets from people that would likely be considered enemies of Targossas due to their citizenship or other affiliations. Likewise, citizens would not be able to hire if the contract went to somebody who was considered an enemy. This is established roleplay from Targossas that we've been holding ourselves to since the city was founded.

Obviously it's not ideal for a city to have no marks, and to not allow its citizens to hire because we're not allowed to deal with our enemies. So, our idea was to create a clan (or two) that would replicate the mark system within Targossas. People interested in being champions or assassins in Targ would join, and citizens of Targossas would submit contracts to the organisation's head that would be handed out to an available mark.

Would this be permissible from an admin standpoint if a record of all contracts was held on file somewhere in a CLHELP for review if issues started flying? Given that there's no notification for the target under the current system until the contract has been completed, one of the biggest obstacles previously has been neatly sidestepped. We could replicate the post-death notification easily enough through a letter sent to the target upon completion (or upon acceptance, if it helps things logistically) to let them know it was a formal contract.

If there'd be no problems from an admin standpoint with this, I'll get things going with Aurora and Deucalion, and we can push ahead with this player initiative. Otherwise, I'm very happy to discuss the problems that might crop up and see if we can reach an agreement.

Cheers,

Rich / Silas

Sena

Bluef said:

If the powers that be in the Ivory Mark find the plight of the weak to be justified, then why can't it simply be understood to be so and thereby perpetuate "Good"?

Because the mark can actually discover the real, existing reason, which very obviously isn't anything close to matching their ideals. It's not like this is some perfectly anonymous system where you can just imagine that there's a good enough reason. Besides that, "protecting/avenging the weak" doesn't seem to be (from my limited interaction with Targossas) a major Targossian ideal. Even if it is an ideal example of defending the weak (which it very often won't be), it can still be completely against their beliefs and goals.

You're basically suggesting that people ignore the actual roleplay of real characters in order to assume imaginary roleplay that often contradicts reality.

Antonius

Bluef said:

If the powers that be in the Ivory Mark find the plight of the weak to be justified, then why can't it simply be understood to be so and thereby perpetuate "Good"?

Because the Ivory Mark has absolutely no idea what Good is and absolutely no standing to make such a decision.

The powers that be in the Ivory Mark can find whatever they like to be justified, and in fact from a roleplay standpoint I'm sure that's already the case. That means literally nothing to Targossas and its Mark members because the opinion of an outside organisation is irrelevant.

Nim

Kayeil said:

I am not sure if an Order appointed Champion would be a realistic option for all Orders at this point. Mine has maybe two combatants, one which is a Mark but is probably not here often enough to handle all contracts, and the other seems to always have OT turned off so they don't even pay any attention.

@Pandora, we must acquire more bloodthirsty minions.

I-I try T_T

Kayeil

Nim said:

Kayeil said:

I am not sure if an Order appointed Champion would be a realistic option for all Orders at this point. Mine has maybe two combatants, one which is a Mark but is probably not here often enough to handle all contracts, and the other seems to always have OT turned off so they don't even pay any attention.

@Pandora, we must acquire more bloodthirsty minions.

I-I try T_T

I know you do! We love you for it.  :x

Antidas

Disclaimer: I stopped reading around page 3 cuz too lazy to ready two more pages.

That being said, I think something should be done about veils and the contract system. Under the previous system, I would of course always make sure the hirer was aware that if they wanted to hire me on someone with a veil, there was a good chance of it going uncompleted, or for it to at least take a while until I manage to get a kill on them during a raid.

I logged in today to find I had been given two contracts, both on Mhaldorians. Which was completely fine with me, except that they both have veils. Which means that the chances of me being able to complete those contracts are pretty low. I don't know how easy it would be to code this in, but I think that perhaps coding in a preference to hire marks with veils over marks without them, on targets with veils, would be a good idea. Its going to suck to have to bite the bullet and take the reputation loss every time RNG gives you a contract on a veil user, just because you are a starving student and can't afford to buy one yourself

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

Bluef

Sena said: Because the mark can actually discover the real, existing reason, which very obviously isn't anything close to matching their ideals. It's not like this is some perfectly anonymous system where you can just imagine that there's a good enough reason. Besides that, "protecting/avenging the weak" doesn't seem to be (from my limited interaction with Targossas) a major Targossian ideal. Even if it is an ideal example of defending the weak (which it very often won't be), it can still be completely against their beliefs and goals. You're basically suggesting that people ignore the actual roleplay of real characters in order to assume imaginary roleplay that often contradicts reality.

But they can only find the reasoning out by asking or being informed by the target before/after it's all said and done. It would be far simpler if the unwritten rule was that Marks turn a deaf ear to anyone who brings things like this up to them or just roleplay the notion that these contracted are meted out in a way that upholds ideals and maybe the minute mysteries that go into those decisions don't need to be scrutinized down to each jot and tittle to ensure things are properly done.

Or just use your imaginations. My god, it's a roleplay realm!

When it all boils down, I see people bemoaning a new system that they basically don't like because it takes the power held over the masses (deciding what contracts a Mark accepts) away from them. What @Silas has done in his note to @Tecton is to ask for an entire city to exempt from the changes. 

There are SO many other ways to sort this out besides giving Targossas its own Mark system, especially one that puts the control and power back into the hands of a few players. Inevitably that is going to lead to Mhaldor's knights wanting something similar, etc. 

Edit: What is with quotes on these forums not working/formatting properly!? Grrrr. 

Caladbolg

Antidas said:

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

Why do you get three when I still haven't gotten one >_>

Strata

Antidas said:

Disclaimer: I stopped reading around page 3 cuz too lazy to ready two more pages.

That being said, I think something should be done about veils and the contract system. Under the previous system, I would of course always make sure the hirer was aware that if they wanted to hire me on someone with a veil, there was a good chance of it going uncompleted, or for it to at least take a while until I manage to get a kill on them during a raid.

I logged in today to find I had been given two contracts, both on Mhaldorians. Which was completely fine with me, except that they both have veils. Which means that the chances of me being able to complete those contracts are pretty low. I don't know how easy it would be to code this in, but I think that perhaps coding in a preference to hire marks with veils over marks without them, on targets with veils, would be a good idea. Its going to suck to have to bite the bullet and take the reputation loss every time RNG gives you a contract on a veil user, just because you are a starving student and can't afford to buy one yourself

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

For once, I actually agree with a subtle veil-nerf post. If you are handed a contract on a veil user, you should be given the ability to locate that person (and only that person) as if you had a veil until the contract is complete.

Wessux

Katzchen said:

Really not looking forward to a full list of contracts I can't get on at the same time as to even challenge. And odds of that are pretty high since I can only really play regular oceanic times now.

You're a mark? But you don't even fight?

Shecks

I like how @Silas is trying to strong-arm the admins, with his only leverage being "arpee".  Hopefully it's as obvious to them as it is to the rest of us...

Your idea is unfair to everyone, and would essentially allow Targossian hirers and marks to ignore the new change.  If a non-Targossian hires a mark, it goes to a random mark, while Targossas gets to continue hiring only the strongest mark(s).  That's obviously unfair to everyone involved, although I'm sure Santar wouldn't mind.

I seriously hate when you try masking your metagaming bullcrap with that thin veil of "roleplay".

Tesha

What is wrong with you? Nobody's trying to strongarm the admin, that was a perfectly reasonable request that might get denied. Even if it does or doesn't, there's no metagaming bullcrap, nobody really cares about contracts. Most of the people Targossians would hire on are mark anyways. This is solely for roleplay, what benefit do you suspect we are trying to gain by trying to get something a little more in line with what Targossas has established 8.5 months ago?

Cooper

It's not metagaming bullshit. Your post and opinion is, though.

It's ridiculous to expect any polarized faction to be okay with this change, it's not just Targossas. This change means that people will be paying their enemies for assistance, which is not something that is accepted by most orgs and shouldn't be happening. And the reverse is true as well, you will be accepting gold from your enemies to do what they want you to do which isn't right either.

And saying something like "you're a mark this is part of your rp" is both dumb and invalid.

Stop posting dumb things.

Silas

Guys, chillax, it's Shecks. He is clearly well-informed and up-to-date on all developments, so his opinion should clearly be considered fairly and on its own merits.

Strata

Let's dissect it then.

Silas said:

Nobody's arguing the validity of the Mark contracts under the current system, it's just silly that we can't dispute how these contracts work since there are no other hardcoded options for us to make use of.

For years, Shallam wouldn't allow people to join the Quisalis Mark because they didn't want their citizens to be assassins, because that was a tag that ran counter to the city's ideals at the time. That was fine, since the Ivory Mark was there to provide the same service with a shiny reskin.

In the current system, neither of the hardcoded options are suitable for many cities and/or characters, so the system has failed to cater to the players. That's the job of the admins, at the end of the day - to cater to the players and build a game world that allows people to play their characters in the ways that they want to (within reason). If it was possible for us to ignore the two Mark systems, and allow Targossian citizens to RP hiring Targossian "Marks" on targets, we'd go with that, but I imagine the admins would take a dim view of that very quickly when the issues started flying.

^ Correct. Issues would ensue because the rest of Sapience basically would have to trust that the Targossian citizens would not abuse this supposed self-governed "Targossian Mark" - we all know how that would go.

So, we ask for changes to the systems that have been implemented.

^ Fair nuff.

Since it's become relevant, I also sent the following email to Tecton this morning when I first saw this thread, which I'll share here:

Hey,

Not emailing to complain, just wanted to get in touch about an idea we were bandying about for Targossas before the mark change, since the Quisalis org is incompatible with Targ's ideals but assassins in and of themselves are not. The idea is more pressing now considering the sweeping changes made to the mark system, so it seems like a good idea to pitch it.

Right now in Targossas, the current mark system would be banned, because we can't justify our marks completing contracts on random targets from people that would likely be considered enemies of Targossas due to their citizenship or other affiliations. Likewise, citizens would not be able to hire if the contract went to somebody who was considered an enemy. This is established roleplay from Targossas that we've been holding ourselves to since the city was founded.

^ A perfectly reasonable concern.

Obviously it's not ideal for a city to have no marks, and to not allow its citizens to hire because we're not allowed to deal with our enemies. So, our idea was to create a clan (or two) that would replicate the mark system within Targossas. People interested in being champions or assassins in Targ would join, and citizens of Targossas would submit contracts to the organisation's head that would be handed out to an available mark.

^ Thereby bypassing all "hardcoded options" and the clans could even be made private so nobody knows who the Targossian "Marks" even are. All parties involved (except the person being hired on, ofcourse) get to discuss/decide on how many contracts (for defiling this would probably be at least 5) get placed on a specific person, what the justifications are, and who will the "Mark" will be. This is essentially the old system - but instead of "He or She is in the Ivory/Quisalis Mark." in their honors and an already established system for PK, these are basically informal clans that would supposedly have admin approval to be the "old" mark system. And would be governed by the members to make up their own rules as they see fit.

Would this be permissible from an admin standpoint if a record of all contracts was held on file somewhere in a CLHELP for review if issues started flying? Given that there's no notification for the target under the current system until the contract has been completed, one of the biggest obstacles previously has been neatly sidestepped. We could replicate the post-death notification easily enough through a letter sent to the target upon completion (or upon acceptance, if it helps things logistically) to let them know it was a formal contract.

^ This makes perfect sense too. Allow the members of above mentioned clans to discuss things in order to manufacture legit cause in the event issues arise. This is way better than the root of cause being described by the initial reason given by the person requesting an assassin or champion.

If there'd be no problems from an admin standpoint with this, I'll get things going with Aurora and Deucalion, and we can push ahead with this player initiative. Otherwise, I'm very happy to discuss the problems that might crop up and see if we can reach an agreement.

^ "and we can push ahead with this PLAYER initiative" - once again, I personally don't see how something like this could be expected to not be abused.

Cheers,

Rich / Silas

Caladbolg

Your bug report #10734 (detail: Although the new mark system says contracts will only last 30 days 

and decay like infamy, Florentino and Quinton (contracts i've had since novemember at least) haven't 

seem to decayed at all, and are at 59 days for florentino and 71 days for Quinton. To be honest 

Quinton probably hasn't logged on since December or so as it is.) - has been assigned to new release 

category.

They're working on it guys. everyone can calm down now

Xith

Antidas said:

Disclaimer: I stopped reading around page 3 cuz too lazy to ready two more pages.

That being said, I think something should be done about veils and the contract system. Under the previous system, I would of course always make sure the hirer was aware that if they wanted to hire me on someone with a veil, there was a good chance of it going uncompleted, or for it to at least take a while until I manage to get a kill on them during a raid.

I logged in today to find I had been given two contracts, both on Mhaldorians. Which was completely fine with me, except that they both have veils. Which means that the chances of me being able to complete those contracts are pretty low. I don't know how easy it would be to code this in, but I think that perhaps coding in a preference to hire marks with veils over marks without them, on targets with veils, would be a good idea. Its going to suck to have to bite the bullet and take the reputation loss every time RNG gives you a contract on a veil user, just because you are a starving student and can't afford to buy one yourself

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

Actually I was thinking about this earlier. I thought veiled people would not only rise to the top in Mark ratings but you almost need a veil in order to be a successful mark.

Either there should be a veil protocol where you can't get a contract on someone with a higher veil level than you (i.e. Proficy will never get hired on) or accepting a contract on someone gives you +1 veil level whenever attempting to scry them so they have a harder time hiding. Or some variation on this.

Kuy

Tesha said:

What is wrong with you? Nobody's trying to strongarm the admin, that was a perfectly reasonable request that might get denied. Even if it does or doesn't, there's no metagaming bullcrap, nobody really cares about contracts. Most of the people Targossians would hire on are mark anyways. This is solely for roleplay, what benefit do you suspect we are trying to gain by trying to get something a little more in line with what Targossas has established 8.5 months ago?

While I've never agreed with anything Shecks has posted, he succinctly answered this question in his post, which I happen to agree with.

Such a thing would create a bypass of the system in the sense that Targossians would no longer have to worry about the off chance of hiring a mark that is incapable of killing their target, as they could easily find a Targossian mark that is not only willing, but completely able to take their contract.

That said, I agree that the new system does pretty much leave Targossas handicapped when it comes to being able to use the Mark system.  However, I also agree that the idea of Targossas having associated with the Quisalis prior the change makes the proposed situation a bit sketchy.  It doesn't really matter how many times someone says, "But we were already arguing about associating with the Quisalis before this change!"  You, yourself, just mentioned that Targossasian RP has been established for 8.5 months; if this is true, and it is also true that Targossas associating with the Quisalis was/is as big a deal as people are saying it is, they would have stopped associating with the Quisalis a long time ago.

I also agree that the Ivory Mark needs a way to distinguish itself, and cast my lot with the idea that the Ivory Mark do so in away that makes it accessible to Targossas, and by extension all those who hold ill-will toward the nature of the Quisalis.  Even if there are helpfiles to distinguish the nature of the organisations, the fact that they both now operate under the exact same system creates a difficulty not to distinguish or create new player-driven RP, but to create new justified player-driven RP.  They are mechanically the same, with the differential being a scripted NPC.  That's it.  That's not enough.  This is not a similar situation to auto-class, as the players were also given Houses to help deal with that.

The problem is that creating a mechanical difference that's use can be justified through the established player-driven RP is both exceedingly difficult and caters to a vast minority.  My suggestion is that each city be given the choice between being allowed to hire Quisalis, being allowed to hire Ivory, or being allowed to hire both.  If and only if a city chooses that its citizens may hire only Champions through the Ivory Mark, the Pantheon of the city can set limiters on which marks are allowed to be chosen.

An example:

Ashtan, Eleusis, and Hashan allow their citizens to hire from both the Quisalis and the Ivory marks.

Mhaldor allows their citizens to hire only from the Quisalis Marks.  They receive no special treatment, except their citizens are unable to hire a Champion.

Cyrene allows their citizens to hire only from the Ivory Mark.  Phaestus decrees that a Champion for a citizen of Cyrene is "not an enemy of Cyrene," and is "not an enemy of <insert Cyrene's houses>."  Rinzai hires a Champion on Katchzen.  Since Saeva (a member of the Ivory Mark) is not an enemy of Cyrene and not an enemy of Cyrene's houses, she is assigned the contract.  Though Cyrene probably doesn't like that, they have no legitimate reason to complain.

Targossas allows their citizens to hire only from the Ivory Mark.  Deucora decrees that a Champion for a citizen of Targossas is "not an enemy of Targossas," is "not an enemy of <Targossas' eventual houses>," is "not an enemy of the order of Deucalion," and is "not an enemy of the order of Aurora."  Since Exelethril (a member of the Ivory Mark) is not an enemy to Targossas, Targossas' houses, Deucalion, and Aurora, he is assigned the contract, regardless of his affiliation to Targossas.

Granted, I find even this to the superfluous and rather wasteful, but I'm very tired and can't really think of a reasonable way to limit who you can and cannot hire without keeping the anonymity of the situation.

Strata

I hope they fix these two problems:

Strata appears to be on some sort of secret DO NOT HIRE list. Others have mentioned this too. The system's selection process seems to fail if the highest ranked marks are in the realms pretty much 24/7. It's sort of a top 1% have all the contracts and the lower 99% get nothing right now.

Antidas got 3 contracts on veil users. That's not cool. Should discuss more about a way for the system to deal with the veil aspect.

Xith

Strata said:

I hope they fix these two problems:

Strata appears to be on some sort of secret DO NOT HIRE list. Others have mentioned this too. The system's selection process seems to fail if the highest ranked marks are in the realms pretty much 24/7. It's sort of a top 1% have all the contracts and the lower 99% get nothing right now.

Antidas got 3 contracts on veil users. That's not cool. Should discuss more about a way for the system to deal with the veil aspect.

Damn Republicans. Thanks Obama.

Arador

Caladbolg said:

Antidas said:

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

Why do you get three when I still haven't gotten one >_>

Reply: Because smack talk boosts Mark rank.

Kidding ilu @Antidas, just couldn't resist.

Eld

Xith said:

Antidas said:

Disclaimer: I stopped reading around page 3 cuz too lazy to ready two more pages.

That being said, I think something should be done about veils and the contract system. Under the previous system, I would of course always make sure the hirer was aware that if they wanted to hire me on someone with a veil, there was a good chance of it going uncompleted, or for it to at least take a while until I manage to get a kill on them during a raid.

I logged in today to find I had been given two contracts, both on Mhaldorians. Which was completely fine with me, except that they both have veils. Which means that the chances of me being able to complete those contracts are pretty low. I don't know how easy it would be to code this in, but I think that perhaps coding in a preference to hire marks with veils over marks without them, on targets with veils, would be a good idea. Its going to suck to have to bite the bullet and take the reputation loss every time RNG gives you a contract on a veil user, just because you are a starving student and can't afford to buy one yourself

edit: aaaand there's a third contract - once again on a veil user. Goddamn RNG!

Actually I was thinking about this earlier. I thought veiled people would not only rise to the top in Mark ratings but you almost need a veil in order to be a successful mark.

Either there should be a veil protocol where you can't get a contract on someone with a higher veil level than you (i.e. Proficy will never get hired on) or accepting a contract on someone gives you +1 veil level whenever attempting to scry them so they have a harder time hiding. Or some variation on this.

Profit.

Shecks

I'm sorry if that last post was a little ranty, but I despise sneaky ways at getting ahead by pretending to care about RP. Ovid's argument for using hi s kill room was that he was purely role playing.

My point was supposed to sound a little more like this:

I totally agree that it's messed up for some organizations, like mahal for and Targossas. However, Silas' proposal is not the right one, as it completely bypasses what this change was intended to do. I'm echoing the other 5+ people who are also saying this. @kuy idea is on the right track, but let's give the staff a chance to show us what they can do?

Strata

Cooper said:

It's not metagaming bullshit. Your post and opinion is, though. It's ridiculous to expect any polarized faction to be okay with this change, it's not just Targossas. This change means that people will be paying their enemies for assistance, which is not something that is accepted by most orgs and shouldn't be happening. And the reverse is true as well, you will be accepting gold from your enemies to do what they want you to do which isn't right either. And saying something like "you're a mark this is part of your rp" is both dumb and invalid. Stop posting dumb things.

For Quisalis, I don't see a problem with the "enemy aid" thing (at least for people in cities like Ashtan, Hashan and *maybe* Cyrene). As @Jarrod said, these are separate organizations where the tasks mark members are given are carried out for and on behalf of the mark organizations, not for factions. Therefore, if and when you kill someone on behalf of one of your enemies, or someone ends up hiring one of their enemies unknowingly, it should have no bearing on them, as the contract was strictly under the auspices of the mark and exempt from any and all political standing with other organizations/factions. Under the old system, ivory/quisalis mark were used primarily as a utility for various city factions and other orgs and the concept of the mark organizations themselves was severely overlooked. The new system adds flavor that fits very well with Quisalis but, as already a dead horse, simply will not work for Ivory mark.

Therefore "you're a mark this is part of your rp" is not entirely dumb and invalid. It's only seen that way by those who can't seem to grasp the concept of an organization of paid killers that is indifferent to the politics of all other organizations and factions in game. I say just make all Targossians open PK and call it a day. Problem solved :P

Draekar

From my perspective I think the proposal made by Silas is the only option on the table that would work 100% for Targossas, which is a real shame really. Kind of disappointed that the more I think about this system the worse I feel about it being used ICly.

With PK (and PK rules) supposedly RP driven now it would probably make a lot of sense for Targossas (and maybe other cities/orgs as well) to just go in the clan direction, maybe in time it could become a High Clan or workable mark org for that city as well.

People might bitch and moan about all manner of reasons why circumventing the hardcoded system is bad, but in its current form it just seems ridicules for the Good faction to use it at all. I don't know if there is any interest in this being addressed by the administration or if it is just one of those lump it and leave it type changes, but it does feel like there wasn't a whole lot of consideration for heavily aligned factions in the change (which most cities/orders should be, or are becoming now?)

Trey

Honestly, the really simple bandaid fix for at least a short while, at least since Targossas (@Silas) is the only one sounding off a major problem with it, is that you could divide it up. Quisalis only accepts Ashtan/Mhaldor/Hashan, and Ivory only accepts Eleusis/Cyrene/Targossas. Much less a chance of hiring a city enemy as a Targossian like that, I think.

This is in no way a comprehensive or ideal fix, but it might serve as a stopgap measure in the meantime.

Nizaris

Question:

How do writs get handled in the new system? I can see, for say an Order, wanting to have shrine witnessers yield a writ to the Order, generally, and then wanting to have either another Order member who is a Mark or someone friendly to the Order perform the hit. Back when I was working on requirements for the Adikoi, one of my tasks was to join Mark (lol), and then carry out contracts on defilements of Apollyon and Shaitan shrines.

Also, I hope that the writ system gets expanded to cover offenses against cities and houses, once the kinks get ironed out in the mark system. Or at least more than just defiling.

Katzchen

So yeah... I -am- getting contracts while I'm offline, for whoever suggested they would only be given when you are around.

Also an unwelcome side effect to this change... top tier combatants can pretty much do whatever they want and any hiring is just... lol good luck. Odds of a mark being hired on them who can kill them just went way down.

Katzchen

Also limiting cities to certain marks really screws over the Maldaathi... there is no way our members are joining the Quisalis. I'd imagine it would be similar for Serpents from 'Ivory' cities chosen.

If we're going to make marks a 'those who want to do contracts all the time only' thing, can we look at another way to earn essence for your God from kills? Because as someone who has no time to hunt lately, without mark it is just a constant essence loss in raids, even when I die very rarely. Corpses don't give enough to make it back.