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Change To Contracts / Marks

ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

It's awesome.

There are a few obvious ways it can be abused, we'll have to see what happens.

Thanks to the admins keeping a constant flow of great improvements.
"Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
AlcinaeKuyBluefSenaSarapisAluciana
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Comments

  • DraekarDraekar Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Also is the minimum hire fee 5k now? a little bit rough on the little guy just trying to get something back. I overall like the new system though, I can see a few possible problems or ways it might be abused, but seems a big improvement on the previous system.
  • NaahNaah Member Posts: 235 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I feel like @Tesha is going to get a custom deathsight within the next few months here. :P

    Achimrst
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh god, this means my crippling self esteem issues won't keep me from getting to murder people anymore. I-I'm excited b-but also scared :(
    EldShirszaeWessux
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 434 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I am confused, you could take a contract out on someone, and it is possible it will never be fulfilled because the system assigned it to someone who isn't in the same time zone sat he target? Or do all parties have to be online for it to work?
    SothantosWysteria
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    Does this mean that all long time marks are going to need to drop all the contracts they've been waiting on for years (due to targets doing dormant), in order to receive new contracts?

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

    Achimrst
  • ZeonZeon Member Posts: 757 @ - Epic Achaean
    Also does hiring a champion now cost the same amount of money? If not what incentive do people have for hiring Quisalis if they can't be selective in who gets the contracts?

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Zeon said:

    Also does hiring a champion now cost the same amount of money? If not what incentive do people have for hiring Quisalis if they can't be selective in who gets the contracts?

    I have the reverse question. Aren't champions supposed to potentially do it out of some sense of justice or values (as potentially alien or strange they might be)? If they don't get a reason, and presumably still get less pay, why go ivory?
    KatzchenArador
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm wondering if it doesn't tell you who took out the contract? So you simply get told who your target is... again, great for Quisalis, horrible for Ivory.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



    SothantosHalosSobriquetArador
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    Did the MARKWHO command get completely deleted or has it changed? I am definitely liking that change. Now more people without gems will join Mark = more cause! YAY!!!!
    image
  • KeiKei Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited February 2014
    Maybe a tiny change that makes it slightly better, re Katzchen et al.'s concern:

    Quisalis gets more money, because that's what they care about.
    Ivory gets to see the reason they're being hired, so they can be properly indignant.

    (ETA: Very cool change, though, I'd been waffling over whether I should take Kei mark or not, this is a nice change <3)

    Bydar, a garish-looking trader says, "I'm not a man, I'm an experience."
    ShirszaeAchimrstAveri
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It says that the mark doesn't know who hired them.

    The hirer and the mark know who the target is.
    Only the hirer knows who the hirer is.
    Only the mark knows who the mark is.
    SybillaXith
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Draekar said:
    * The hirer is now kept anonymous from the Mark, and vice-versa, until completion of the contract, 
    when all involved parties will be notified.
    This whole change works really well for the Quisalis side, focusing more on the Mark organization than on any individuals. It shouldn't matter what org the target you assigned is affiliated to. You signed up to be an assassin for hire, if you don't want to deal with the consequences of such, you can freely leave the Mark without consequence. I very much like this change, as it makes being a Mark actually mean something.

    I do think something should be added in for Ivory to work more thematically for them, since you can still choose which side you're hiring. I don't know what a good solution might be though. Possibly a cheaper hire fee, but it informs the target they've been hired on? Just tells them they've been hired upon, not the Mark member or hirer. That way when the relatively weaker need to be defended, they don't have to break the bank to get justice, but the perpetrator knows it's coming. On the other side, if some rich scoundrel wants someone eliminated, he calls the assassins up and puts an expensive hit out.

    Might not work, but could be a possible solution?
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • QuisseQuisse Member Posts: 299 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I don't know how it was before, but I love this! I love everything about this. Now to figure out more about these things in game...
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2014
    Issue #4 (part 2) is actually a pretty good point.

    I think informing the target might have to be a requirement, unfortunately.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • SothantosSothantos Member Posts: 446 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Re: "If you don't want to do what the Mark org wants, you can leave.
    Okay, but then no Targossians can be Mark. We're not supposed to randomly kill people.

    Also, I actually meant this is unfortunate for the hirer, not the hiree. I mean, you could get a Mark that doesn't complete it on purpose. 

    edit: this post was vague
    StrataXith
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sothantos said:
    "Then quit Mark."

    Okay, but then no Targossians can be Mark. We're not supposed to randomly kill people.

    Also, I actually meant this is unfortunate for the hiree, not the hirer. I mean, you could get a Mark that doesn't complete it on purpose. 
    If someone doesn't complete contracts, ideally they'd suffer high reputation losses for letting it decay, meaning they will get less and less.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • SothantosSothantos Member Posts: 446 @ - Epic Achaean
    I just realized I can't count.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sothantos said:
    1. People could hire excessively/without a reason on you and if you're involved in combat a lot, you might not even notice a difference.
    If you don't notice a difference, is there really a problem with that?

    2. You could get a contract on a friend who's in another city then intentionally not complete it.
    I'm fine with this, actually. In terms of RP, it makes sense, and it's not like it's a huge problem if the contract is never completed.

    And going back to Katzchen's point: I think it works for certain unattached factions, but as a Targ mark, it's kind of a disaster. RP-wise, there's no reason I'd want to just randomly kill people as accomplishments for reasons unaware to me, especially if some Ashtani or Hashani hires me on an Eleusian or something.
    This is what I think the Ivory Mark should be for. I'd like if the Quisalis are stealthy and anonymous assassins (this new system), while Ivory are upfront champions (more "fighting in another person's place" than assassinating someone) and care about the reasons (something closer to the old system, with all sides being fully aware of the details of the contract).

  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2014

    90% of the Ivory mark didn't give a crap about the "reason", and maybe 9% of the remaining 10% only pretended to.  Marks are marks to boast, and to get cause on people.  The people who do it for RP are such a tiny minority that I don't think it's even worth worrying about.  Also, if I understand right, one of the primary purposes of this change was to get away from the "everyone in Ashtan hires Jhui", "everyone in Targossas hires Santar" crap, which makes being a mark pretty lame, and pointless.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    BluefSarapis
  • SothantosSothantos Member Posts: 446 @ - Epic Achaean
    The primary reason of the Mark being to do it for RP or not has nothing to do it, because in certain organizations, RP rules are enforced whether or not you care about RP. As a Targossian, we're not allowed to hire enemies to do things for us, and we're also not allowed to kill people who haven't really done anything to us roleplay-wise. For instance, if I went out and killed some Eleusians because I felt like it, I would probably get in trouble. This means that Targossians would have some problems both hiring and accepting contracts -- the new Mark system would be unusable to us unless there were changes to how Ivory Marks work.
    ShirszaeWynedereHavynDavio
  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sothantos said:
    The primary reason of the Mark being to do it for RP or not has nothing to do it, because in certain organizations, RP rules are enforced whether or not you care about RP. As a Targossian, we're not allowed to hire enemies to do things for us, and we're also not allowed to kill people who haven't really done anything to us roleplay-wise. For instance, if I went out and killed some Eleusians because I felt like it, I would probably get in trouble. This means that Targossians would have some problems both hiring and accepting contracts -- the new Mark system would be unusable to us unless there were changes to how Ivory Marks work.
    You're not hiring an enemy. You're hiring the Quisalis or Ivory Mark group. They are in turn assigning one of their members to do the job.

    On the other side, you could see it two ways. 1) You're doing your job as a Mark member by killing X person, not killing randomly. or 2) Hopefully Ivory gets something like Sena mentioned, and then being Ivory will be the standard in Targossas, where you can use your judgement on the contracts.

    If some pass were to be put in though, perhaps add something where if all Ivory Marks pass on a contract, they're all penalized some amount of gold and the contract is sent to the Quisalis after X days? I doubt this situation will ever arise (Jhui is Ivory, he'll take anything ;) ), it's good to have contingencies.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    Trevize
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    The hiring should be completely anonymous. For everyone. The mark member should not know the identity of the one who hired, and the one who is hired on shouldn't even know they've been hired on UNTIL they are attacked by the mark member. Once they're attacked, they should be notified so they know why - otherwise... issues.

    Opening it back up to the old way would be pointless. I am really glad for this overhaul because people have become way too pro at dodging contracts.

    Regarding Ivory Mark - it should be converted into an entirely separate organization with completely different mechanics and rules. For example, hiring an Ivory Mark member makes every person involved aware of the contract, the contracts last much shorter periods of time than Quisalis contracts, and they MUST be completed via duel to the death (to prevent the usual nullification teaming bullshit). If the target refuses to duel for the contract, they get attacked by a denizen champion shortly after the contract expires. The denizen should be powerful enough that most don't stand much of a chance against it, the contract is completed and then only 1/2 of the experience is given to the person who hired and the mark member gets nothing. This should not affect the Ivory Mark's status as a good/bad mark either - since 9/10 people will refuse the duels.

    For Quisalis, everything aspect should be anonymous - and the supposed denizens with internal connections to the mark system who you can pay to get the identity should be removed. Once those quests are figured out, the anonymity aspect will be completely nullified and it's back to the original mark system where those who get hired on just hop on alt characters or never leave their ships/well protected inside city/only come on game when their assassins aren't around.


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