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Change To Contracts / Marks

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  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,861 Achaean staff
    To clarify, those denizens will only tell you if someone has a contract on you, not who has a contract on you. They'll be more of a "watch your back", not "dodge this person".
    Strata
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Strata said:
    and the supposed denizens with internal connections to the mark system who you can pay to get the identity should be removed. Once those quests are figured out, the anonymity aspect will be completely nullified and it's back to the original mark system where those who get hired on just hop on alt characters or never leave their ships/well protected inside city/only come on game when their assassins aren't around.
    From the announce post, it sounds like the denizens only tell you whether or not you have a contract out on you, not who the mark is or who hired them. So you don't know who to avoid until they actually attack you.
    Strata
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2014
    Makarios said:
    To clarify, those denizens will only tell you if someone has a contract on you, not who has a contract on you. They'll be more of a "watch your back", not "dodge this person".
    @Sena @Strata
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    Strata
  • ValdenValden Member Posts: 544 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I like the idea that the ivory mark have to challenge their target to a duel and if they decline the duel, then you're allowed to track them down and kill them.

    CHALLENGE <TARGET> TO DUEL
    "X has challenged you to a duel as the champion of Y for <contract reason>"

    Or just rely on tells, but this way there's a clear system in place and people can't get confused by badly chosen language, and it's traceable by admins in cases of issues.
    AchimrstStrataXith
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valden said:
    I like the idea that the ivory mark have to challenge their target to a duel and if they decline the duel, then you're allowed to track them down and kill them.

    CHALLENGE <TARGET> TO DUEL
    "X has challenged you to a duel as the champion of Y for <contract reason>"

    Or just rely on tells, but this way there's a clear system in place and people can't get confused by badly chosen language, and it's traceable by admins in cases of issues.
    So, like, an arena match or something? The to-the-death variety, so there's absolute fairness, in a random arena that neither combatant are enemied to?
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Nim @Valden That's identical to how it is now.  You don't need to code in a duel challenge, nor do you need to code in refusing to participate in one.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    Zeon
  • ValdenValden Member Posts: 544 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Nim said:
    Valden said:
    I like the idea that the ivory mark have to challenge their target to a duel and if they decline the duel, then you're allowed to track them down and kill them.

    CHALLENGE <TARGET> TO DUEL
    "X has challenged you to a duel as the champion of Y for <contract reason>"

    Or just rely on tells, but this way there's a clear system in place and people can't get confused by badly chosen language, and it's traceable by admins in cases of issues.
    So, like, an arena match or something? The to-the-death variety, so there's absolute fairness, in a random arena that neither combatant are enemied to?
    All it does is notify the target, then they can respond to the mark and either decline and run, or accept and meet the mark somewhere for a fair duel.
  • ValdenValden Member Posts: 544 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Shecks said:
    @Nim @Valden That's identical to how it is now.  You don't need to code in a duel challenge, nor do you need to code in refusing to participate in one.
    Like I said you can rely on tells like it is now. I only add the code and command so that it's a traceable system to prevent abuse and to prevent confusion. (More than once I've seen A kill B for reason Y, and then have B complain that they were killed for no reason).
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Katzchen said:
    Nim said:
    Also does hiring a champion now cost the same amount of money? If not what incentive do people have for hiring Quisalis if they can't be selective in who gets the contracts?
    I have the reverse question. Aren't champions supposed to potentially do it out of some sense of justice or values (as potentially alien or strange they might be)? If they don't get a reason, and presumably still get less pay, why go ivory?
    The Ivory Mark (HELP CHAMPIONS), whose members uphold honour and the plight of the weak.
    The Quisalis Mark (HELP ASSASSINS), who use any means necessary to eliminate a target.

    How does this system remotely go along with what the Ivory stands for? It's a great mechanical thing to limit hiring, but it completely screws with the flavour of the Ivory Mark. My character has zero reason to want to complete a random contract.
    I'm confused. You're Mhaldorian. The Ivory Mark has always been about Champions upholding the plight of the weak, hasn't it? So why were you ever Ivory (if you're Mhaldorian and their whole grow strong through suffering and oppression thing).

    Shouldn't you just quit Ivory and join Quisalis? Feels like I'm missing something here.

    KyriellaAchimrstArador
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Sena said:
    Ivory could be assigned semi-randomly like this, but with the mark seeing the reason, and being able to refuse a contract (so it's re-assigned to someone else) with no reputation loss.
    Is it really so difficult for Ivory Mark to roleplay that the contracts that come to them are somehow shuffled through the overseers under Atlantia's supervision and the weak whose plights are noted therein are found to be true and in need of champion response? 

    Part of the problem with the old system was that it didn't matter how good of a justification you had for the hire. Contracts were refused based on personal preference or because people in certain organizations didn't want their members fighting on behalf whoever. This removes that problem entirely and makes the Mark system that every players again has access to utilize, as needed. It also creates a neat ranking and reputation system by which Marks can gain acclaim and a small boon for doing their job. Seems win-win.

    Edit: I can't spell.
    ZeonMazothJhui
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It also stops Santar from being able to pay novices to hire him without cause, with complete impunity.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    Strata
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited February 2014

    Also need to block under level 20 from hiring, to prevent massive new account / champion abuse.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    Strata
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Katzchen said:
    @Bluef Maldaathi don't do Quisalis. We're Knights, not assassins. Our sense of what is honour is slightly different to other Knights perhaps, but it's still just as strong.
    Interesting! Thanks for clarifying. 

  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Katzchen said:
    @Bluef Maldaathi don't do Quisalis. We're Knights, not assassins. Our sense of what is honour is slightly different to other Knights perhaps, but it's still just as strong. I has NOTHING to do with helping random weak city enemies.
    Just helping weak mhaldorians?
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
    Xith
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shecks said:
    Katzchen said:
    @Bluef Maldaathi don't do Quisalis. We're Knights, not assassins. Our sense of what is honour is slightly different to other Knights perhaps, but it's still just as strong. I has NOTHING to do with helping random weak city enemies.
    Just helping weak mhaldorians?
    It embodies the evil-related concept of vengeance, involves punishing/subjugating the weak that would proclaim themselves strong (whether that's the Maldaathi or their target). Not to mention finding a way to arrange someone's death is a form of strength, even if there's an underlying sense of weakness in that you were unable to do so with your own hands.

    There are probably more reasons, but these are a few I can think of, and I'm not even Mhaldorian!
    ShirszaeRakon
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bluef said:
    Is it really so difficult for Ivory Mark to roleplay that the contracts that come to them are somehow shuffled through the overseers under Atlantia's supervision and the weak whose plights are noted therein are found to be true and in need of champion response?
    I think it is difficult when reality will often contradict that assumption, even before considering different standards (such as the problems Sothantos mentioned with Targossian marks). It might work for most people if it was entirely anonymous from start to finish, but that's pretty much impossible.
    Bluef said:
    Part of the problem with the old system was that it didn't matter how good of a justification you had for the hire. Contracts were refused based on personal preference or because people in certain organizations didn't want their members fighting on behalf whoever.
    I agree, and I do like the new system. I think this could still be preserved while allowing ivory marks more discretion, though. I think they still shouldn't know who the hirer is even if they can see the reason, for example (although it will sometimes be pretty obvious, if you're watching deathsight or participating in the conflict).
    Nim
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shecks said:
    Katzchen said:
    @Bluef Maldaathi don't do Quisalis. We're Knights, not assassins. Our sense of what is honour is slightly different to other Knights perhaps, but it's still just as strong. I has NOTHING to do with helping random weak city enemies.
    Just helping weak mhaldorians?
    Generally not, no. If it's extreme, like someone griefing a novice, depends on the situation.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



    Arador
  • XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
    edited February 2014

    Agathon begins to convulse, and as his mouth opens in a silent scream, you hear a loud snapping as his back shatters from the sheer force of the spasms.

    You have slain Agathon.

    Golden sovereigns spill onto the ground from Agathon's corpse.

    Your reputation among the ranks of the contract killers rises.

    You are now the Silent Executioner in the Quisalis Mark.

    You have fulfilled the contract on Agathon on behalf of (Sartan, the Malevolent), and have received 1 gold.


    Drawing on the power of undeath, you wreathe your hand in black, crackling energy. With a diabolical laugh, you stiffen your hand and slowly run it down Edris's chest, splitting it open as you do so. With an expert touch, you rip apart his innards, causing a maximum of horrifying pain, and, enjoying the spectacle of Edris writhing and screaming in agony, you rip out his sternum and drive it through his splayed body, pinning him to the ground to die.

    You have slain Edris.

    Your reputation among the ranks of the contract killers rises.

    You have fulfilled the contract on Edris on behalf of Drekk, and have received 1546 gold.


    I'm curious to see how this works for order hiring - I think hiring for writs on shrines, or other such order related stuff might need to be worked differently. Also, on the second contract, all I knew was that when I checked contracts, I saw that I had one on Edris, with no reason or hirer. My buffer ran out so I don't know if the fee listed was the same as the gold I got (I vaguely remember seeing that the fee was 1, and not 1546, but I could be wrong and I can't check anymore). Overall, I like the change, though I do think that differences involving reason and/or hirer would be reasonable for the Ivory mark.

    EDIT: Hopefully I can see the Silent Executioner deathsight next time I kill someone for a contract (it only shows up for contracts, and not normal kills) since this time was bugged - didn't show up even though I killed Edris for the contract, the vivisect deathsight showed up instead T_T Haha

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
    Bluef
  • KinilanKinilan Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 1,255 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Xer said:

    You have fulfilled the contract on Agathon on behalf of (Sartan, the Malevolent), and have received 1 gold.

    Only one gold? Did he blow it all on the orderhall expansion?
    :D
    Achimrst
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    When I saw what appeared to be yet another Shecks idea thread I was apprehensive. But this sounds appreciably cloak-and-dagger.
    image
    ShirszaeMathonwy
  • DjiDji Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sounds interesting, but with the contracts handed out at random, what's to stop a mark getting a contract on a friend and then just not bothering to try to complete it?

    It's not like no one in Achaea is friends with someone in a different city.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dji said:
    Sounds interesting, but with the contracts handed out at random, what's to stop a mark getting a contract on a friend and then just not bothering to try to complete it?

    It's not like no one in Achaea is friends with someone in a different city.
    That was already possible before, you just had to be proactive about it and not be well known to the hirer.

    As it is, it looks like the only real deterrent is the reputation loss. I'm not sure how significant that is.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I like this system the old system was completely.. useless..

    Only problem I see is people who don't leave cities/ships ..ever and the new limit/based upon how many contracts you currently have..

    Also right now I have two contracts one has 59 days the other has 71 days.. I've had these contracts for at least 4-5 irl months. there serpentlolalts and I can't cancel them..

    Should've done a contract wipe before new system was added in.

  • JarrodJarrod Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,060 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you make a habit of ignoring contracts, you'll lose reputation and get progressively fewer contracts.

    Contrarily, if you're exceptionally proactive about contracts, you can get a high rank and will get more contracts. This means that you could potentially have a higher chance of getting a friends' contract, and effectively use your reputation to pardon them. You'll still be penalized, but we don't know how weighty that is.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

    Bluef
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,160 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Having never been a Mark, I can't really say, but I've always seen the underlying motive of Marks (if not Ivory then certainly Quisalis) as the thrill of the hunt and the payment resulting in completion. I think 5k gold should be the minimum required to hire, but that the person hiring could offer more if the target is high profile or they really want the job done (maybe that's what that was already saying, if so, disregard). Also, do Marks get paid before or after completion of a contract? RP wise, it would make sense either way, or on a half now, half upon completion basis. Additionally, does this apply to current contracts as well, or only from this point on?

    *if some of this has already been explained forgive me, just got home from work and am browsing while I wolf down some dinner.



  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 434 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Maybe make it so that Assassins can reject if the price is too low, and Ivory can see who took out the contract and can reject on that.
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It's kinda pointless to put a high price on a contract if you don't know who's going to get it.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
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