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  • So says the Targossian who raids 8 v 4 and moves guards the moment someone enters the city. 
  • In today's episode of 'every city sucks except mine'... Realistically you need to accept that at some point, where it looks like the other side could or should defend, they wont. They may have a real reason for it, the reason may be 'I'm not feeling it right now', which given that it's a game, is probably a real enough reason. It's fine to talk shit and vent in private about it, but bitching on the forums about something everyone does at some point or another is just stupid.

    Dunn tells you, "I hate you."
    (Party): You say, "Bad plan coming right up."
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    Only raids I've seen from Mhaldor versus Targossas in recent memory have been off hour/retal raids with 8 raiders versus 3 defenders.  Heck you guys moved guards against us yesterday.

    That said, the current raid system is easily gamed, it's much better to be a counter-puncher letting another faction raid, use guards and disarm then retal raid off hours (will be exceedingly boring waiting an hour to detonate though).
    image
  • Achilles said:
    It's Mhaldor, they worldburned us yesterday when it was 6 of us versus 11.  They need the wins however they can get them.
    One person's decision to type in a shrine power and hit enter does not the entire city make, generalizing doesn't help anyone out.
  • There were a lot of things IC and OOC working against Ashtan and why we didn't engage.

    1) No Sartai online.
    2) We just finished raiding Cyrene, Hashan, and Targossas, plus a defense against Targossas and Eleusis earlier in the day
    3) It was 2:40 AM

    I've already said to like..everyone and their mother, mostly Ashtan's raid leaders, I have a shut-off time. It's 2:30am EST so I can be in bed by 3am EST, if I'm not already gone before then. You come knocking around that time or after, which is 100% Ashtan and sometimes Hashan, the likelihood of me engaging is pretty nill. Other's also leave around this time.

    We can go in circles about how much so-and-so sucks, but in the end it's a game, and I don't play the game to entertain other people. Do I get annoyed when someone comes to the forum and makes an issue about it? Sure, but that's life. Everyone (should) have their IC personas to wear. Why that same attitude gets brought OOC to the forums, one never knows.

    Ashtan would probably have a lot more fun if they engaged the other cities - Eleusis, Cyrene - instead of sticking to just Hashan and Mhaldor. ICly it makes sense for them to engage the whole world, but they don't because 'shopping'. I'm enemied to every city, and if I need something from Cyrene, I find a way to get it. It's not too hard.

    Embrace evil, kill everyone. It's good times.
  • Syndra said:
    Ashtan would probably have a lot more fun if they engaged the other cities - Eleusis, Cyrene - instead of sticking to just Hashan and Mhaldor. ICly it makes sense for them to engage the whole world, but they don't because 'shopping'. I'm enemied to every city, and if I need something from Cyrene, I find a way to get it. It's not too hard.

    To be fair, by the point in the day/night/whatever you're talking about, the only fights you'll reliably get are Hashan and Mhaldor. It's less about fighting you guys specifically, and more about who fights when Austere is around. 

    Dunn tells you, "I hate you."
    (Party): You say, "Bad plan coming right up."
  • It sounds like you need more combat leaders to spread it around during the other hours. We have a couple, and I love waking up to find one of them led a raid and detonated. Austere gets rowdy when I'm going to bed. Riell is already gone by that point. If Minifie is around, sometimes she'll lead. Most of the other leader's were awake last night, but see above about just ending a slew of raids. Tired was thy name.
  • Raids 8v4? We literally just raided 6v6 + guards yesterday. Every raid I've seen by Mhaldor against Targossas, on the other hand, Targossas has been outnumbered. Really, every fight I'm in with Mhaldor is either even or we are outnumbered. Your comment about guards is just weird, too. You guard every time we raid. I don't mind, but using it as an attack on others when you never don't do it yourself just makes you sound nonsensical. Same with the weird numbers arguments.
  • edited March 2019
    Not really. When you aren't around, and we try to raid, no matter if it's 3 of us versus a ton of you, we get immediate guard calling or no engagement. I've had reports of you raiding 8/6 versus only 4 defenders, and I see that in the logs. So that's not ingenious to say you never skew the numbers like that in your favour. Every city does it. You only see the POV of when you are there, which is a drastically different response when you're not. If you're not there, but Vinzent, Issam, Icraa, Achille etc etc are, they don't engage or, they will move guards, and then rush the first engagement with guards. Which makes it so there's no fighting, it's just guard death. 

    My preference, and this is what Hashan also does is this. We engage you a few times before moving guards, which is usually my MO. Get a few skirmishes in, see how it goes, then guard. It's more fun that way.
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited March 2019
    Syndra said:

    My preference, and this is what Hashan also does is this. We engage you a few times before moving guards, which is usually my MO. Get a few skirmishes in, see how it goes, then guard. It's more fun that way.
    That's... pretty much what I've seen us do, even if Farrah isn't around, if we do move guards.

    I used to have much stronger feelings about guarding when I came back from dormancy. Then I realized that sometime in the 4 years I was gone it became essentially an expected part of warfare, and tactics adjusted. So you guard, you don't guard, whatever. But claiming Targ guards more unfairly than you do somehow is just wrong.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • Syndra said:
    Not really. When you aren't around, and we try to raid, no matter if it's 3 of us versus a ton of you, we get immediate guard calling or no engagement. I've had reports of you raiding 8/6 versus only 4 defenders, and I see that in the logs. So that's not ingenious to say you never skew the numbers like that in your favour. Every city does it. You only see the POV of when you are there, which is a drastically different response when you're not. If you're not there, but Vinzent, Issam, Icraa, Achille etc etc are, they don't engage or, they will move guards, and then rush the first engagement with guards. Which makes it so there's no fighting, it's just guard death. 

    My preference, and this is what Hashan also does is this. We engage you a few times before moving guards, which is usually my MO. Get a few skirmishes in, see how it goes, then guard. It's more fun that way.
    K
    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."

    Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
  • And on my end, there have been a ton of raids that don't even get to a skirmish. Instant guard moving, no skirmishing. 
  • I don't think you understand my point. I never said Targossas doesn't guard. But Mhaldor guards us every day. So why are you, one of the people frequently using guards, saying this like it's some kind of terrible thing Targossians are doing?

    You don't ever do an engagement without guards that I can see before attempting to move them, unless you mean the sanction-gaining engagement. That doesn't really count though. Once the tank is down, you move them, and that is all that really matters since before then raiders can just move.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    Syndra said:
    Not really. When you aren't around, and we try to raid, no matter if it's 3 of us versus a ton of you, we get immediate guard calling or no engagement. I've had reports of you raiding 8/6 versus only 4 defenders, and I see that in the logs. So that's not ingenious to say you never skew the numbers like that in your favour. Every city does it. You only see the POV of when you are there, which is a drastically different response when you're not. If you're not there, but Vinzent, Issam, Icraa, Achille etc etc are, they don't engage or, they will move guards, and then rush the first engagement with guards. Which makes it so there's no fighting, it's just guard death. 

    My preference, and this is what Hashan also does is this. We engage you a few times before moving guards, which is usually my MO. Get a few skirmishes in, see how it goes, then guard. It's more fun that way.
    Reading this only makes me certain that there are multi-verses, how else can Syndra be so delusional.  I 100% prefer to just kill raiders and disarm (or kill defilers versus worldburn) but will guard if it's obvious a lol raid.  But like I said it's not a big deal but don't pretend you have some high moral standards that only you meet (when it's arguably the opposite).
    image
  • Achilles said:
    Syndra said:
    Not really. When you aren't around, and we try to raid, no matter if it's 3 of us versus a ton of you, we get immediate guard calling or no engagement. I've had reports of you raiding 8/6 versus only 4 defenders, and I see that in the logs. So that's not ingenious to say you never skew the numbers like that in your favour. Every city does it. You only see the POV of when you are there, which is a drastically different response when you're not. If you're not there, but Vinzent, Issam, Icraa, Achille etc etc are, they don't engage or, they will move guards, and then rush the first engagement with guards. Which makes it so there's no fighting, it's just guard death. 

    My preference, and this is what Hashan also does is this. We engage you a few times before moving guards, which is usually my MO. Get a few skirmishes in, see how it goes, then guard. It's more fun that way.
    Reading this only makes me certain that there are multi-verses, how else can Syndra be so delusional.  I 100% prefer to just kill raiders and disarm (or kill defilers versus worldburn) but will guard if it's obvious a lol raid.  But like I said it's not a big deal but don't pretend you have some high moral standards that only you meet (when it's arguably the opposite).
    Hmmmmmm. I’ll take you up on that
    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."

    Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
  • I hate guards in general, but I'm very much the 'if you do this to me, I'll do that to you' mind-set. You use guards on us all the time. In response, I use guards on you all the time. I would /love/ if there was a way to only engage one - guard moving or font - during a raid. I prefer the fight, not sitting on silence because people are moving guards. 

    My point is this: Moving guards before a sanction-gaining engagement sucks. Achilles does that, it's why I called him out on it. To me, that's a 'bad' thing, and I mentioned him doing it. And here Targossas is, trying to tell me that you don't do that. Except, he does, and when you aren't awake to lead, and he is, that's what happens.

    It was less a slight against Targossas, and more a pointed response to Achilles. 

  • NeraeosNeraeos The Garden
    Alright, we all know where this stuff belongs. Move along.
  • I find that really interesting, Achilles. When we go to raid, if Farrah isn't around and it's just you we go "Not worth it because he'll just instant-move guards". That's your reputation in Mhaldor, and not only to me. 
  • edited March 2019
    Okay, well, I think the vast majority of players won't agree with you on "guarding immediately after tank is placed is 'more fun' than guarding pre-sanction."

    So, you can think that, but we'll all see you as a hypocrite.

    We say the same on our parties about you. "Expect guards." Doesn't stop us from raiding, but we do always have to contend with them. You really have no ground to stand on about this. Achilles doesn't do anything you don't do, and I've seen him participate in a lot more "difficult" fights than I've seen you attempt.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    Syndra said:
    I find that really interesting, Achilles. When we go to raid, if Farrah isn't around and it's just you we go "Not worth it because he'll just instant-move guards". That's your reputation in Mhaldor, and not only to me. 
    That's fine, I don't really care what my rep is with another faction, anyone who's ever played with me knows I'm all about fun fights with coin flip outcomes.  You want a fight then bring reasonable numbers respective to what we have on CWHO then we can throw down.  Moving guards pre-sanction is just a tactic to make you guys leave or move anyways, I gain nothing from it anyways (I could always just go on a ship or journal like others).  
    image
  • Taryius said:
    Remember when everyone on the forums got up in arms because numbers aren't an exact science, Pepperidge Farm remembers. 

    Regarding last nights raid, we would've gotten stomped without guards, do we need to not get stomped? Nah, we could've pulled our sleeves up and kept trying our best but our first rush went horribly horrible. We managed to get 1 starburst on our focused target before wiping. Let alone trying to true-kill everyone. Targossas' small raid teams are much stronger, and experienced than our small teams, the sentiment has beens expressed before that it feels like fighting a self-repairing brick wall when trying to actually wipe Targossas :D 

    Syndra, Taryius, Davok, Tasus, Elly and Iloisee vs Achilles, Vinzent, Icraa, Farrah, Mezghar, Issam.

    Lots of gems, lots of flasks, lots of DW revives and olive branches and priest revives and earrings and urn mounts to get out and ink more starbursts. If anything its an impressive sign on how effective Targ's combat teams can be. And more than likely I'm also weighing that advantage too much, and Targ weighs that advantage too little. That biased perspective will always exist.

    Mhaldor defends a lot of losing shrine fights up to multiple times per day, feels like both Mhaldor and Targ are looking through the bias-goggles when it comes to in-city raids, and its best that people keep such conflict IG where it can be used productively. People just weight negative experience much heavier than positive ones, its often referenced that people only start weighing good and bad when they are experiencing positive results 66% of the time.


    None of us are complaining about the guarding at all, though, Tary. Just pointing out it happens. I guarantee you all the times Targ guards, they feel the same way about the combat disparity. Mhaldor has big guns who don't die too. Targ has relative non-coms who die easily. 

    It's just silly to talk shit about one team/person over it and take some "high ground" when the "high ground" isn't there.
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited March 2019
    As I said before, I expect guards at this point when raiding. Sooner or later, they're going to come. If they come at the very start, I just assume it's meant as a "go home, we don't feel like playing right now." 

    That said, I've never heard anyone go "We should raid X city, it's pretty empty so they won't put up a fight." We -want- a fight, and actively try to avoid making people not want to defend. If we end up overpowering the defenders, it's not because we're trying to curbstomp.


    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • Farrah said:
    Taryius said:
    Remember when everyone on the forums got up in arms because numbers aren't an exact science, Pepperidge Farm remembers. 

    Regarding last nights raid, we would've gotten stomped without guards, do we need to not get stomped? Nah, we could've pulled our sleeves up and kept trying our best but our first rush went horribly horrible. We managed to get 1 starburst on our focused target before wiping. Let alone trying to true-kill everyone. Targossas' small raid teams are much stronger, and experienced than our small teams, the sentiment has beens expressed before that it feels like fighting a self-repairing brick wall when trying to actually wipe Targossas :D 

    Syndra, Taryius, Davok, Tasus, Elly and Iloisee vs Achilles, Vinzent, Icraa, Farrah, Mezghar, Issam.

    Lots of gems, lots of flasks, lots of DW revives and olive branches and priest revives and earrings and urn mounts to get out and ink more starbursts. If anything its an impressive sign on how effective Targ's combat teams can be. And more than likely I'm also weighing that advantage too much, and Targ weighs that advantage too little. That biased perspective will always exist.

    Mhaldor defends a lot of losing shrine fights up to multiple times per day, feels like both Mhaldor and Targ are looking through the bias-goggles when it comes to in-city raids, and its best that people keep such conflict IG where it can be used productively. People just weight negative experience much heavier than positive ones, its often referenced that people only start weighing good and bad when they are experiencing positive results 66% of the time.


    None of us are complaining about the guarding at all, though, Tary. Just pointing out it happens. I guarantee you all the times Targ guards, they feel the same way about the combat disparity. Mhaldor has big guns who don't die too. Targ has relative non-coms who die easily. 

    It's just silly to talk shit about one team/person over it and take some "high ground" when the "high ground" isn't there.
    If it wasn't clear, I 100% agree, none of us are still pearly white, we all play in the mud sometimes.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    Taryius said:


    Regarding last nights raid, we would've gotten stomped without guards, do we need to not get stomped? Nah, we could've pulled our sleeves up and kept trying our best but our first rush went horribly horrible. We managed to get 1 starburst on our focused target before wiping. Let alone trying to true-kill everyone. Targossas' small raid teams are much stronger, and experienced than our small teams, the sentiment has beens expressed before that it feels like fighting a self-repairing brick wall when trying to actually wipe Targossas :D 

    Syndra, Taryius, Davok, Tasus, Elly and Iloisee vs Achilles, Vinzent, Icraa, Farrah, Mezghar, Issam.

    This is a fair assessment, we didn't mind the guards honestly, we had a plan to stop you from moving guards but got a little sloppy and then things went sideways fast.  

    Small detail, you had a 7th though I can't recall who it was.
    image
  • edited March 2019
    I feel like Mhaldor gets drug through the dirt a lot, even though the vast majority of us try to be respectful (even when it's hard because, you know, we're the "bad guys" in Achaea).
  • JiraishinJiraishin skulking
    edited March 2019
    Riell said:
    I feel like Mhaldor gets drug through the dirt a lot, even though the vast majority of us try to be respectful (even when it's hard because, you know, we're the "bad guys" in Achaea).
    Honestly, I think -everyone- gets drug through the dirt a lot on forums and in various other ooc channels. It certainly feels like Targ does. I think it's just harder to take the barbs when they're directed at yourself, or at least that's been my experience both in Mhaldor (when I was Mhaldorian) and now in Targ.

    Try not to let it get you down though.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."

    (Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
  • First thread to make 1 million views :open_mouth:

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