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  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Final answer I got was "This is currently intended" and to submit a classlead request next cycle if wanting to see it changed. I'm pretty sure falcons did not work like this in the past, and I don't see any classlead notes on when that was changed. But if that is their answer, guess that's the way they want it.


  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,210 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Incoming massive shop theft as everyone discovers the 100% intended feature of a falcon being able to seek into a locked stockroom, and the necessity to have shimmering orbs now.

  • JiraishinJiraishin skulkingMember Posts: 2,028 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Uh. Most people discovered that a long time ago, I'm afraid. That's why Targ shop security regs require people to have shimmering orbs in their stockrooms.
    ________________________
    The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
    ShirszaeSobriquetFarrah
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I don't know how far back your definition of past goes bu this is nothing new. Has worked like this for at least two to three years at the very least. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Farrah
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 28
    I went as far back as ANNOUNCE NEWS #3158  (March 7, 2010) and no mention of falcons being changed to be able to seek and track indoors. Mentions every other change to Falconry, including using them out at sea, but nothing about being able to go indoors.

    It also doesn't explain how Falcon Track has always said that it will not work against people indoors:

    Syntax:            FALCON TRACK <target>
    Works on/against:  Adventurers
    Details:
    This ability is an improved version of falcon follow. With track, even if the falcon temporarily
    loses its target, because the target went indoors, the falcon will continue to follow the target
    once the target comes back outside.




    Siduri
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's fine. I won't argue its not documented. Just mostly saying this is nothing that was just sprung two days ago on an unsuspecting populace. It's been like that for non literal ages and I find it hard to believe anyone who participates even cursorily in combat or even just delivering stuff to people had not noticed. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,210 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    I don't know how far back your definition of past goes bu this is nothing new. Has worked like this for at least two to three years at the very least. 
    Irrelevant - the vast majority of the game had no clue.

    "It has been this way" is never, ever a legitimate reason for something to remain the same.

    Falcons going through locked, closed doors - including stockrooms, temples, house halls, private housing, etc is game breaking.

    Even assuming that I am 100% wrong - that falcon seek has been able to go inside through locked doors forever, and that shimmering orb was changed to stop retrieve and seek...none of that is listed in any help file, announce/classlead post, or AB file. So at the minimum we have piss poor record keeping that also needs changed.

    I will restate, however: statements made on the forums/discord/issue responses cannot be things players are expected to know. This should ALL be in searchable help files. Announce posts are also terrible for keeping track of changes - not a reasonable expectation for every player to read and remember every announce post ever made, and keep track of the changes that were made to the same items and abilities over time.

    LennYselaCailinSiduri
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,210 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Shirszae said:
    That's fine. I won't argue its not documented. Just mostly saying this is nothing that was just sprung two days ago on an unsuspecting populace. It's been like that for non literal ages and I find it hard to believe anyone who participates even cursorily in combat or even just delivering stuff to people had not noticed. 
    I've been playing for 20 years, and this thread is the first time I'd ever heard of this. It is not recorded in any help file, announce post, or ab file. How are players supposed to know if they have never been robbed by a falcon in a stockroom, or no one has ever directly told them?

    LennYselaTreyMroxyl
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,880 @ - Epic Achaean
    Class switch runie
    Falcon-rob everyone
    Quit class
    Wtf?
    "What, Im not even a knight, duh. Probably a mistake like people getting killed by gold coins. Bug it?"

  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,366 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Shirszae said:
    That's fine. I won't argue its not documented. Just mostly saying this is nothing that was just sprung two days ago on an unsuspecting populace. It's been like that for non literal ages and I find it hard to believe anyone who participates even cursorily in combat or even just delivering stuff to people had not noticed. 
    I've been playing for 20 years, and this thread is the first time I'd ever heard of this. It is not recorded in any help file, announce post, or ab file. How are players supposed to know if they have never been robbed by a falcon in a stockroom, or no one has ever directly told them?
    To be honest, that last sentence could be replaced with pretty much anything. We have so little knowledge from help and ab files about specific things that having to discover or communicate yourself is actively encouraged.

    This is no big deal from a theft perspective  and hasn't been for years, the shimmering orb change recently was directly off the back of an Issue Krizal placed after some testing with myself. If you think a Runie is suddenly going to be a major threat to stock rooms and houses then you are mistaken. I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at in a classlead but this is being blown out of proportion. A shimmering orb prevents it entirely, Falcons can only carry one item at once and those items are limited to things of a certain size. (And not grouped items I seem to recall, but might be hazy on my memory there)

    This is not going to clear out stockrooms and anyone following basic security measures will never get caught out. 
    image
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's not even about the minuscule theft potential for me so much as that it's a nonsensical change. Falcons shouldn't be able to magically fly through any closed door, locked or otherwise. So this now allows people who are in Temples, House estates, and even private homes to be spied on, which I do not think is a good idea.


    Caelan
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Requiring a shimmering orb just like you require other sigils for safety is super game breaking yes. :unamused:

    Temples already have super sigils, could extend that to prevent falcons off they wanted. The rest is perfectly fine. Stop living beneath a rock. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 28
    You shouldn't need a shimmering orb on the floor of every indoor location you don't want a falcon to be able to glance. That's just ridiculous.

    Shimmering orbs were designed specifically prevent use of the Appraise skill when trying to look into someone's inventory.

    What about when you could falcon seek and track anyone on a ship, regardless of where they were? Nothing broken about that, I guess? Should it be changed back then?


  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,465 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 28

    Falcons can't listen in on conversations so I'm not sure what you think they are doing (spying-wise) that is game-breaking. Falcon glance is no different than veilglance, which also requires a shimmering orb to stop, so if you don't want people looking in your room, yes, you do always need an orb on the ground.

    Falcon stockroom theft has been a thing for a long time, as well. I was surprised (as a non-shopkeeper) when I discovered it a while back, but asked Mak and he said the counter is shimmering orb, which all the shopkeepers in my city seemed to already know.

    ShirszaeKrizal
  • RhivonaRhivona Member, Moderator Posts: 139 Moderator
    Farrah said:

    Falcons can't listen in on conversations so I'm not sure what you think they are doing (spying-wise) that is game-breaking. Falcon glance is no different than veilglance, which also requires a shimmering orb to stop, so if you don't want people looking in your room, yes, you do always need an orb on the ground.

    Falcon stockroom theft has been a thing for a long time, as well. I was surprised (as a non-shopkeeper) when I discovered it a while back, but asked Mak and he said the counter is shimmering orb, which all the shopkeepers in my city seemed to already know.

    Falcon stockroom theft hasn't been possible for a few months now
    Siduri
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Then at the very least it would be good to have the relevant skill descriptions updated to reflect these changes, which a lot of people still seem unaware of. Falcon Track still specifically says falcons can't track indoors (but they can). Orb of Concealment in Conjuration still specifically states the orb will conceal most of your inventory from others (nothing about being needed to stop non-Vision based skills). So it's easy to see how confusing that can be.


  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,465 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rhivona said:
    Farrah said:

    Falcons can't listen in on conversations so I'm not sure what you think they are doing (spying-wise) that is game-breaking. Falcon glance is no different than veilglance, which also requires a shimmering orb to stop, so if you don't want people looking in your room, yes, you do always need an orb on the ground.

    Falcon stockroom theft has been a thing for a long time, as well. I was surprised (as a non-shopkeeper) when I discovered it a while back, but asked Mak and he said the counter is shimmering orb, which all the shopkeepers in my city seemed to already know.

    Falcon stockroom theft hasn't been possible for a few months now

    That should be announced too!
    Siduri
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,210 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 28
    Rhivona said:
    Farrah said:

    Falcons can't listen in on conversations so I'm not sure what you think they are doing (spying-wise) that is game-breaking. Falcon glance is no different than veilglance, which also requires a shimmering orb to stop, so if you don't want people looking in your room, yes, you do always need an orb on the ground.

    Falcon stockroom theft has been a thing for a long time, as well. I was surprised (as a non-shopkeeper) when I discovered it a while back, but asked Mak and he said the counter is shimmering orb, which all the shopkeepers in my city seemed to already know.

    Falcon stockroom theft hasn't been possible for a few months now
    Where is this announce or information located?

    Kresslack just had an issue converted to a bug with a response of "working as intended" when he reported you can falcon seek and retrieve in stockrooms. Nicola also posted a non-response instead of clarifying. But according to your response it was not intended and changed. How can players possible wade through all this misinformation when it's coming from admin and issue responses?

    I do not understand why admin responses are intentionally uninformative (and straight up wrong too frequently).

    I love you guys, but your record keeping and change announcing had not been at an acceptable level.

    tl;dr I called being able to falcon seek & retrieve in stockrooms a bug when it was talked about here, people freaked out and said it is intended to be able to be done and has always been this way...only for falcon retrieve in stockrooms to be a bug and have been fixed months ago.

    YselaMroxyl
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 1,880 @ - Epic Achaean
           

    Shirszae
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,366 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 29
    Rhivona said:
    Farrah said:

    Falcons can't listen in on conversations so I'm not sure what you think they are doing (spying-wise) that is game-breaking. Falcon glance is no different than veilglance, which also requires a shimmering orb to stop, so if you don't want people looking in your room, yes, you do always need an orb on the ground.

    Falcon stockroom theft has been a thing for a long time, as well. I was surprised (as a non-shopkeeper) when I discovered it a while back, but asked Mak and he said the counter is shimmering orb, which all the shopkeepers in my city seemed to already know.

    Falcon stockroom theft hasn't been possible for a few months now
    You might want to double check that, given Keesslack had a falcon in the shop that was stopped by a shimmering orb. 

    I also agree with Cooper about consistency. We are all acutely aware that a majority of the Admin and volunteers and we appreciate that immensley and with that comes an understanding that things might not always be perfect. But this js 2019, the number of collabaritve sharing / tracking tools are numerous. For this to be issued numerous times by numerous people in different places and have nothing other than announce posts for.us to track it seems counter productive. 
    image
    CaelanRyxMroxylZbaco
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,366 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kresslack said:
    You shouldn't need a shimmering orb on the floor of every indoor location you don't want a falcon to be able to glance. That's just ridiculous.

    Shimmering orbs were designed specifically prevent use of the Appraise skill when trying to look into someone's inventory.

    What about when you could falcon seek and track anyone on a ship, regardless of where they were? Nothing broken about that, I guess? Should it be changed back then?
    You shouldn't need a monolith in every room if you don't want people.to break in, that just ridiculous.

    See how daft that sounds? You have a perfectly good counter to.your problem, you're just annoyed with yourself for not knowing about it. Nice of you to bug this one though....

    Also, orbs are being used more in raids now to stop XGlance seeing who is grouped up. There is more than one use for these, not just appraising 
    image
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,248 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    Kresslack said:
    You shouldn't need a shimmering orb on the floor of every indoor location you don't want a falcon to be able to glance. That's just ridiculous.

    Shimmering orbs were designed specifically prevent use of the Appraise skill when trying to look into someone's inventory.

    What about when you could falcon seek and track anyone on a ship, regardless of where they were? Nothing broken about that, I guess? Should it be changed back then?
    You shouldn't need a monolith in every room if you don't want people.to break in, that just ridiculous.

    See how daft that sounds? You have a perfectly good counter to.your problem, you're just annoyed with yourself for not knowing about it. Nice of you to bug this one though....

    Also, orbs are being used more in raids now to stop XGlance seeing who is grouped up. There is more than one use for these, not just appraising 
    Unlike shimmering orbs, monolith sigils have always had that distinct purpose, as made clear by HELP SIGILS. I've also never seen a shimmering orb used in a raid. The only thing I'm annoyed about is the misinformation and lack of clarity regarding things like this. It's whatever though. I can agree to disagree because it's not about being "right" for me and having to resort to petty comments to get my point across. I was just trying to get clarification on what definitely seemed like a bug to me. Got that confirmation. Cheers. 


    Cailin
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,408 @ - Epic Achaean
    Shimmering orb was used with crucible and miasma and my client blue screened. 
  • DavokDavok Member Posts: 55 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I wonder how many people think I've tried to steal from them when I forget to falcon recall for hours on end.
  • NumiraNumira Member Posts: 101 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Davok said:
    I wonder how many people think I've tried to steal from them when I forget to falcon recall for hours on end.
    Uhhhhggg. Now I just remembered I forgot to falcon sanctuary before quiting again.
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,264 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Numira said:
    Davok said:
    I wonder how many people think I've tried to steal from them when I forget to falcon recall for hours on end.
    Uhhhhggg. Now I just remembered I forgot to falcon sanctuary before quiting again.
    Pro tip: trigger qq to falcon hunt. 
    CailinNumira
  • NumiraNumira Member Posts: 101 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Every time, I’m like “ I should do that” and then I don’t. There is at least 8.36 triggers/aliases/Messing with SVO type things that seem to go like that.
  • RyxRyx North of NorthreachMember Posts: 96 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I don't care about mechanics of falcon theft, I just want to know the lore here. Are falcons master lockpickers, who then also kindly lock doors behind them? Do they squeeze beneath door cracks like sneaky rats, making sure to never lose so much as one feather? Do they ghost through the door? Create a wormhole through the door? Trick the stockroom owner to summon them because they're cute pets? Teleport behind them? Or maybe they become air elementals and turn into air? Lightning through the door, maybe? Or maybe they have giant magnets and slip everything underneath the door crack? Or hey, maybe the exact technique depends on the class or city of the falcon's owner.

    The mystery continues. I would like to see people roleplay the exact falcon storeroom theft methods.
    Deziny
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,236 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    They do it the same way 10 dragons can fit into a one-room building.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Zbaco
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