Monk Ridiculousness

Dorn

@Synbios: Most classes are, in some combination or another. Serpents have prep in hypnosis, then momentum in everything else; Knights have prep in setting up limbs, then momentum in chaining the breaks in quick enough succession. Blademasters just seem to have a much more stark duality about it than most - speaking as someone who's only passingly familiar with other class mechanics, and usually from the receiving end.

Valdus

So, seems to me that the problem is with Ashura's Icon.

Make it not stack with Knuckles/Obscene strength but leave AXK so non Ashuran monks have a kill method that doesn't involve BBT.

Nemutaur

Valdus said:

So, seems to me that the problem is with Ashura's Icon.

Make it not stack with Knuckles/Obscene strength but leave AXK so non Ashuran monks have a kill method that doesn't involve BBT.

Raise your own damn icon. It's already been said that icons will get a good looking at soon, probably after the new novice system is in place.

Jovolo

Its not the icon. It's a deep-rooted mechanical problem with Monk being forever tankable or not at all. The Icon just brings that to the extreme and displays it to all.

(Because all classes are affected w/ the icon)

Daklore

Oh look, blunt penetration icons got nerfed. Imagine that.

Penwize

@Dorn

SWK/Arm/Leg really doesn't work unless you're chaining axekicks for a mangle kill, which will rarely actually work.  Otherwise, they'll apply to legs first and stand before you get much of a finisher in.   In dragon stance, SWK combos are about 2.5ish (numbers here are from memory), as are WWK combos, and normal combos are like 2.3ish.  That means if you start with SWK/Arm/Leg, you get one more combo and one finisher to end it before they stand.  A single BBT shouldn't really kill unless you have a mangled torso at that point, which would requite you to fail at curing torso hits prior to the setup. 

As for why we need to break arms, it's necessary to dismount mounted targets, and even more necessary to even consider killing any of the classes with survival abilities while prone that need working arms, like vigour, kai heal, hands, balloons, or even wielding an SoA.  After a WWK/Arm/Arm combo, that's 2.5 seconds the target has to regain balance and run before the SWK. 

Side note: Unartied (and even artied) accuracy also screws the finishing business pretty badly, because if any single hit out of six attacks misses, our prep gets ruined.  Missed a punch in WWK/Arm/Arm? Well, now your target has working arms and will just hands/kai heal/vigour/whatever out of your finisher damage.  Missed WWK?  Target's mounted! Missed SWK? Target's still standing.  Missed a leg punch? Target stands in half the time.

Dorn

@Penwize

Well I learnt something new today! I could've sworn Swk/arm/leg, torso/arm/leg, BBTrololo used to work, though - did something change in the last few months or did curing just get better or am I hallucinating or something?

Penwize

It used to work really well against a lot of people because SVO applied to the arm before the leg on SWK/arm/leg, so doing that actually got you longer prone time rather than shorter.  SVO's priorities got fixed, and that doesn't happen anymore.  Without that longer prone time, sip/moss will negate the sdk/arm/leg combo afterward, leaving you with just one torso-damaged BBT before they stand, which shouldn't kill them.

Iocun

I don't think it has anything to do with Svo priorities, but simply with it learning to wait for entire combos to pass before deciding on what ot apply.

Penwize

Sure, it prioritized waiting over applying asap! That's a priority!

Valdus

Nemutaur said:

Valdus said:

So, seems to me that the problem is with Ashura's Icon.

Make it not stack with Knuckles/Obscene strength but leave AXK so non Ashuran monks have a kill method that doesn't involve BBT.

Raise your own damn icon. It's already been said that icons will get a good looking at soon, probably after the new novice system is in place.

I don't have an icon, bub. Try not to get so angry.

Nemutaur

Valdus said:

Nemutaur said:

Valdus said:

So, seems to me that the problem is with Ashura's Icon.

Make it not stack with Knuckles/Obscene strength but leave AXK so non Ashuran monks have a kill method that doesn't involve BBT.

Raise your own damn icon. It's already been said that icons will get a good looking at soon, probably after the new novice system is in place.

I don't have an icon, bub. Try not to get so angry.

Ashura, home of the angry bird. You'll see.

Terra

Penwize said:

True enough, but that's true of monks and arm breaks as well, except we don't have hamstring.

I'm pretty sure most of the people who complain about monk are the people who die to axk off a single or double leg break. Your problem comprehending this is you assume monks need to arm break to kill!

Imagine someone who doesn't have an artie mount and dies to combo, axk, or combo, enfeeble, axk. Then, BM is much much easier to fight than monk.

I'd never complain about monk if the monk had to arm break me to kill me, tbh. That idea is totally foreign to me.

Iocun

Idea: make mind sense instakill the target if he has a broken arm. Make all other forms of killing unviable.

At least @Terra won't complain then!

Anedhel

I can see it now:

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier at douchebag's left arm.
You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier at douchebag's left arm.
Douchebag applies a salve to his arms.
clan switch <City defence clan>
clt sense douchebag.
Douchebag has been slain by the might of AFKer monk.

Terra

Obviously, no one would whine since it's an affliction kill instead of a damage kill.

Iocun

It would also give veils more purpose, which is important.

Seftin

Let me sum it up. bm I had 6 keys for a win. monk I had 3. Therefore bm harder than monk yet both loleasy. gg have fun go Druid and freeze pound.

Xli

Aktillum

OP doesn't remember Dragon monks touch web + axk

Cooper

Oh god.

I remember the artied Ashura back in the day defending that, saying it was balanced and shouldn't be removed etc.

Santar

Well, it did require that you web them.