Monk Ridiculousness

Jinsun

Niraaeth said:

Cahin said:

Jovolo said:

Niraaeth said:

That's not a particularly accurate title for this topic. I'll post a log later, but my AXK will never do even remotely close to that damage. Heck, I had several people tank 3 BBTs in a row with level 2 torso damage, so don't go generalizing like that.

That's a Monk with Strength arties and blunt Icon, not a simple Monk.

Can you post a log of the people surviving three BBT's in a row with level two torso damage? It's classleads man, don't be complaining until aftet they've been released and Monk is still broken.

Probably only possible as a nonartied, low strength monk against an artied infernal (and no arm breaks). Only situation I could see something like this happening in.

I don't keep logs and my memory is horrible, though I think one of the opponents might have been Jinsun, or some other Occie whose name starts with J.

And this I posted a while back.

Niraaeth said:

Blah, blah... Fight with Rexak.

Long story, short, we fight a couple of minutes, I try deliv, breaks and all kinds of stuff but all fail. At the end I pull out full amo: level 2 torso, arm breaks, leg breaks, enfeeble and somehow even 3 bbts and he just laughs in my face tanking them.

Blah.

Rexak was in Dragon form during the fight. No clue about arties and such.

I admit I'm not too good at combat and that my race will suck forever at it, but I will not renounce on my Atavian RP for the sake of combat, especially not if you will nerf Monk anyway. 

Personally, I don't understand why no one has started a topic asking for the removal of the blunt tuning of the Icons yet. As per the arties... they cost a small fortune and for that they get an advantage in combat, I don't see a problem with that.

AXK may do hilarious damage, but at least it requires some prep, but have you fought an uber artied Magi these day?! Geez, I have over 4k health, but if I don't hit and run upon every single attack, I'm dead. And good luck with their hindering abilities.

Yeah that was me. You know how annoying it is to tank 3 BBTs only to die to kai choke? Haha.

Caoimhaen

I agree with a lot of you here. Just like every other class, a monk needs to manage to get his/her prep right. I don't think Axe kick should be nerfed. Honestly, I have enough trouble as it is managing to kill people with over 4000 health. Granted, I'm still learning. But even so.

Antonius

Of course axekick needs to be nerfed, it just needs to be done properly so it only affects the ridiculous top end (high strength, artefacts and a blunt icon) rather than everybody.

Nemutaur

Antonius said:

Of course axekick needs to be nerfed, it just needs to be done properly so it only affects the ridiculous top end (high strength, artefacts and a blunt icon) rather than everybody.

Yeah, either that or a redesign of how the kick works mechanically.

Jovolo

Penwize said:

I also notice a very weird thing about damage kills that I don't see about affliction kills.  I'm not sure what it is, likely a matter of perception, but I find a lot of people complain about huge damage finishers, but I don't find anywhere near as many complaints about things like getting truelocked from dry in 15 seconds or getting enlightened in about as much time.  There's just something about massive damage finishers that has a perception of being way worse.

Helplessness. You can change the way you cure to survive afflictions without hunting for x amount of weeks/months, and without purchasing a bunch of artefacts. Unlike aforementioned damage.

- Of course damage can be hindered, and fighting a Monk sort of reminds me of fighting a Jester in the fight for x amount of time and suddenly mangle death. Except, as I said before, you don't need to hunt for months and purcgasw artefacts to survive a Jester.

Cooper

Jovolo said:

Penwize said:

I also notice a very weird thing about damage kills that I don't see about affliction kills.  I'm not sure what it is, likely a matter of perception, but I find a lot of people complain about huge damage finishers, but I don't find anywhere near as many complaints about things like getting truelocked from dry in 15 seconds or getting enlightened in about as much time.  There's just something about massive damage finishers that has a perception of being way worse.

Helplessness. You can change the way you cure to survive afflictions without hunting for x amount of weeks/months, and without purchasing a bunch of artefacts. Unlike aforementioned damage.

- Of course damage can be hindered, and fighting a Monk sort of reminds me of fighting a Jester in the fight for x amount of time and suddenly mangle death. Except, as I said before, you don't need to hunt for months and purcgasw artefacts to survive a Jester.

And the affliction class can change their strategy according to how their opponents cure. Monks don't have that luxury.

Daslin

Jovolo said:

 purcgasw artefacts

best part of this entire thread.

purcgasw.

Iocun

Cooper said:

I also notice a very weird thing about damage kills that I don't see about affliction kills.  I'm not sure what it is, likely a matter of perception, but I find a lot of people complain about huge damage finishers, but I don't find anywhere near as many complaints about things like getting truelocked from dry in 15 seconds or getting enlightened in about as much time.  There's just something about massive damage finishers that has a perception of being way worse.

Helplessness. You can change the way you cure to survive afflictions without hunting for x amount of weeks/months, and without purchasing a bunch of artefacts. Unlike aforementioned damage. - Of course damage can be hindered, and fighting a Monk sort of reminds me of fighting a Jester in the fight for x amount of time and suddenly mangle death. Except, as I said before, you don't need to hunt for months and purcgasw artefacts to survive a Jester.

And the affliction class can change their strategy according to how their opponents cure. Monks don't have that luxury.

I don't think the topic here is "who has it easier", but "why do people complain more about burst damage kills". Nobody here is stating that affliction classes are underpowered or that damage classes are overpowered. We're simply stating that the fact that complaints about burst damage kills are more common than complaints about affliction kills probably comes from affliction combat being all-in-all more variable in its outcome.

Trevize

Just make it a timed instakill, which can be blocked by any attacks on the uhm... lower body.

Cathy

Trevize said:

Just make it a timed instakill, which can be blocked by any attacks on the uhm... lower body.

Strata

Ashuran monk damage only needs to be scaled better so we can all stop debating about it and get on to more important topics like tremolo and force remove armour.

Nemutaur

Strata said:

Ashuran monk damage only needs to be scaled better so we can all stop debating about it and get on to more important topics like tremolo and force remove armour.

I know, I cannot kill dragons off a single axk yet so the tuning is definately off. Another 20% blunt penetration might do the trick though.

Asmodron

Mizik

@Kross
...but the reality of how difficult an axe kick is to pull off ...
Lol'd

Santar

they have to be prone, bro.

Echald

And puppet obliterate needed a firecracker, man.

Santar

Echald said:

And puppet obliterate needed a firecracker, man.

You think I'm joking, but someone actually used this argument way back to defend obliterate.

Naisar

I went into dormancy largely because of artied monks, and it's the main reason I haven't returned.  I could deal with every other class by adjusting my playstyle, curing priorities, etc, but when it came to good monks I had to bank on them screwing up.  Against well-artied monks with consistent execution I pretty much ran out of options.  I was unable to survive as a 5.4k health Runewarden with a mount, good blunt armor, sitting on an area boundary with ground runes on the other side of a stonewall.  In between numb/kai heal/transmute my disembowels could be reliably tanked, and they could execute their setup 2-4 times before I had the chance to go for mine once.

Achaea's an awesome game, but its combat system is inherently imbalanced by trade skills, asymmetrical (and not gracefully so) because of  the different relationships classes have with momentum, and a giant balance clusterf--k because of paid combat bonuses.  I appreciate the recent drive to take a look at a lot of these problems, but some of them are so deeply rooted I doubt they'll ever be properly addressed.  All games have lifespans; Achaea's just happens to be much longer than most.  Personally I'd love to see a MUD built for the modern era.  The industry's learned an incredible amount about game design and MMO structure in the last decade, and the first group to apply that knowledge to a MUD is going to experience small but very intense success.  Welp, that got pretty far afield.

Jhui

Mizik said:

@Kross ...but the reality of how difficult an axe kick is to pull off ... Lol'd

to be fair, a stanced AXK is decently hard to pull off on a smart, mounted, defensive opponent.  Assuming the opponent you're fighting has some sort of walls/hinder up to eliminate any sort of JPK break and is mounted, they can do a lot of shit to keep you from proning them while breaking a leg (Earionduil).

Icon + JPK being a viable kill method is what makes Ashuran monks a nightmare.  no need for that stanced AXK to finish off.  However, some untanky classes vs non-icon monks can still die to jpk/double break, stance, enfeeble, axk.

Mounted vs unmounted makes all the difference!

Caladbolg

http://pastebin.com/ujdiv7gA

@Nemutaur Don't know how any monk fights with out an icon after seeing that

Kafziel

Putting money on regen there

Caladbolg

On a serious note though

(2676h|66%)(3287m|99%)(18950e|99%|15208w|98%)(6S)(mir)(false)(Nemutaur)
Nemutaur kicks his leg high and scythes downwards at you.
He connects to the head!
Your mind feels suddenly dulled and slow.
Nemutaur launches a powerful uppercut at you.
He connects to the head!
Nemutaur launches a powerful uppercut at you.
He connects to the head!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
| AFFLICTED W/ MILDCONCUSSION | AFFLICTED W/ MILDCONCUSSION |
-------------------------------------------------------------------
(6h|0%)(3287m|99%)(18970e|99%|15208w|98%)(6S)(mir)(false)(Nemutaur)(focus)(-2670h, 66.3%)

With out icon. and just strength

Kafziel

I am betting you had a regeneration tick on the second punch (probably 5%) and the punch actually did 7% rather than 2%.

edit: doesn't make sense since you edited your post

Caladbolg

Kafziel said:

I am betting you had a regeneration tick on the second punch (probably 5%) and the punch actually did 7% rather than 2%.

Yeah Kafziel the log was for the lols

edit:I don't like to double post so I took out the picture and replaced it with what I wanted to post making it more relevent without taking up to much fourm space Sorries

Iocun

Jhui said:

Mizik said:

@Kross ...but the reality of how difficult an axe kick is to pull off ... Lol'd

to be fair, a stanced AXK is decently hard to pull off on a smart, mounted, defensive opponent.  Assuming the opponent you're fighting has some sort of walls/hinder up to eliminate any sort of JPK break and is mounted, they can do a lot of shit to keep you from proning them while breaking a leg (Earionduil).

Icon + JPK being a viable kill method is what makes Ashuran monks a nightmare.  no need for that stanced AXK to finish off.  However, some untanky classes vs non-icon monks can still die to jpk/double break, stance, enfeeble, axk.

Mounted vs unmounted makes all the difference!

Unless you can stonewall, you can't really expect to keep walls up against a monk.

Jhui

was just an example, I was including flood, sentinel traps, wunjo/nairat, etc. But yea, outside of JPK, it's harder than most people think to prone people while double breaking them

Iocun

Banish lasts, like, forever though, doesn't it?

Anedhel

Doesn't matter. Two combos and your mount's done for, unless you have an unkillable thing.

Penwize

As long a the target has more than one mount, banish is terrible, since using it to prevent mounts will cost more than just using cripple and hoping you don't need an enfeeble.  Even if the target doesn't have  multiple mounts, if you use banish to avoid the mount you'll never regain that kai needed to actually finish someone (can't banish and enfeeble, generally).  Honestly, banish is terrible in its current incarnation.  Maybe if it costed way less kai, it'd be somewhat usable, but as it stands you have to decide between banishing a mount or actually killing your target.

Anedhel

Low cost/lower time the mount is gone would be pretty neat. That way you can use it for your finishers reliably, and the other person's not screwed out of a mount for ages.