City destruction changes

Wysteria

That's the odd thing about this army business. During my time there's maybe 5 people across cwho and hwho, so we do a lot of defence over raids. When @Rangor decides to raid half the world anyway, Eleusis spends more of its time acting in support rather than the frontlines. I do a lot of the rezzing if I can, while some of the younger ones do supply chain of fires, fills and harmony etc. When you think about it, the most decorated crew are obviously the ones risking life and limb, but the supporters should get some note too. I don't know if hiking their rank is an idea, but don't forget the squishy novice ones who help out in their own way.

Skye

@Wysteria

I actually think rewards for novices and the like can be handled on an individual case-by-case basis. Even if you don't city or army promote. A yearly or bi-yearly acknowledgement plus small credit bonus would do imo newbies especially are always hankering for credits.

Daslin

So... I'm still quite confused... and it hurts my head... someone, please tell me what the people were saying??

Cyla

Ahem.. I was TRYING to say (but the it wouldn't post my actual comment) was it really necessary to put my death at the top of that, @daslin?

On another note, thank you @cathy and @xli for not leaving me alone in one of my darker moments. My heart goes out to both of you.

Antonius

@Cyla: Were you posting on a phone? The mobile version of the forums seems to be far worse than the desktop version (which is already horrendous) for quoting.

Cyla

@antonius actually it was the desktop version giving me grief. It would let me quote Das, and enter my comment, but when I posted it, my comment would disappear.
I'm posting off my phone now, which seems to be working alright. No idea what happened :-??

Dunn

@Tecton

Do you think that disallowing the activating of the font until the sanction occurs would be a poor change? Currently you can just turn the damage increasing font on and turtle up in a safe spot until the enemies have an adequate number of Proteus stacks before rushing. It's really boring (help). That said, I think six kills is a fine requirement for the sanction to occur and should remain if this change went in.

Tesha

Why would that be a good change? It would only change from turtling until enough stacks to turtling until you go away. If you want to get rushed, don't work so hard to prevent it (tower tarots, massive LOS, maintaining prop, etc). The reason we weren't rushing wasn't the font or anything, it was more we couldn't get to you because you didn't want us to without all of us dying. Which doesn't really seem like a problem. 

Dunn

If you font up now and turtle, there's no risk of a room being destroyed or anything. If it was activated at sanction, then you'd either have to wait for the stacks and risk one room exploding or fight.


So sitting for a half an hour before a sanction even starts to use this new and improved system isn't a problem?

Tesha

If it happened in every single sanction, it would be a problem. However, as I said, the reasoning for the turtling wasn't just for the font, that was a side benefit. We just couldn't really get to your group without getting shredded along the way. Changing the way the font works will not result in us automatically rushing blindly the second people enter the city and feed you dozens of kills for your tanks.

Dunn

It still seems like a sensible change to avoid future standoffs during which I complete an essay. We'll let Tecton decide, though.

Tesha

Eh, I'm not really bothered either way. It just doesn't seem wise to balance around the offensive group not being bored. Standoffs are going to happen sometimes, I'm okay with that.

Jhui

To be completely honest, turning on a font should initiate a sanctioned raid prior to reaching the 6 kill limit.

If you think about it, turning on the font is basically saying "Hey, we're getting ready to fight back"

There should not be a hard-coded 6 kill limit if the defending city has accepted that you are raiding and is planning to fight back with the font.

edit: standoffs are fine yea, but the defending city should not gain an advantage by standing off with the font empowered

Atalkez

Personally, the new system has made it so that raids are extremely boring, and overall you really have no incentive to truly defend. If we dont rush, you get 1 room. Sure, take it you cant do anything else after that. I find myself standing around waiting, letting metawake drain, for 90% of the raid. On the occasions that the fighting is actually started, everyone is so worried about feeding kills they are more worried about getting out than slaying the people attacking. I don't know about the rest of you but a fight to me isn't a standoff where we are yelling petty remarks because we won't move and you won't move.

Just rush clouds. More fun that way.

Dunn

I like you.

Jacen

Why not have their tanks power up at a rate proportional to the number of defending soldiers in the city? Or on the mainland?

Shirszae

Jacen said:

Why not have their tanks power up at a rate proportional to the number of defending soldiers in the city? Or on the mainland?

Because that'll just make people log out or journal.

Dunn

Yeah, that was brought up and shot down for that reason.

Makarios

I've been keeping an eye on the raids since it went in. It does seem like we have a lot of standoffs (something we knew might be a problem due to the risks involved with engaging).

One potential idea might be to remove the natural charge limit on tanks from level 1 and put it to level 2, but their are obvious ramifications there.

Is entrenching still a problem? The anti prop font power was meant to open up prism as a potential approach if people barricade themselves in.

Dunn

I haven't seen the anti prop font being used. Tesha's post...

Tesha said:

Why would that be a good change? It would only change from turtling until enough stacks to turtling until you go away. If you want to get rushed, don't work so hard to prevent it (tower tarots, massive LOS, maintaining prop, etc). The reason we weren't rushing wasn't the font or anything, it was more we couldn't get to you because you didn't want us to without all of us dying. Which doesn't really seem like a problem. 

would indicate that either she didn't know it existed or something else. I saw a couple of prisms in the last two sanctions, but none of them ever completed.

Hasar

Prism your whole group into a Magi. Oh lawd.

Dunn

Also decays vibes etc.

Tesha

I don't think I can do anything with the font because of military rank, but decay/quake looks like it would have helped a lot. Honestly the standoffs are the result of crushing numbers, not the system.

Would it be possible to add a rather lengthy way to retrieve tanks once they are placed? Maybe something like a 180 second channeled "retrieve tank" command that must be uninterrupted? Jhui was telling me Hirst put two down, so they had to stay 20v8 for longer than he wanted to. I ended up just going to die to them to feed them kills because they didn't want to leave their tank behind.

Makarios

Probably not. Once you commit we don't really want people getting cold feet and backing out. If you put down a tank its getting used one way or the other.

Carmell

With Ashtan throwing towers up everywhere and major LoS on your side there wasn't even really a way for us to get to you.  You don't want a standoff but you make it near impossible for us to even get close to your room.  I'd also point out that the first two times a font was used between ashtan and Targossas they were both done on Ashtan's side.  We didn't get rushed until we were at 25 eye.

Tesha

I could have figured out a way with quake/decay if I knew about it, honestly. I didn't have access to changing anything though, The "you started it" conversation will lead nowhere beneficial, so lets just not go there. 

That's understandable re: retrieving tanks, looks like people will just need to not be dumb about putting them down. 

Rangor

Doesn't shallam have like deliver, pilgrimage and beckon to close on a room?

I know I use grove gates, track and so on lots of times to close with groups quickly.

Jhui

yea, the only reason we put towers/icewalls/frozen ground everywhere is so the inevitable "hop into LoS and take out target X, then hop back out  doesn't happen" which is a viable tactic however easy it is.  Towers/icewalls etc. are our makeshift mobile totems!

That may be a side effect from fighting Mhaldor, but it's better to eliminate it at the start.

Not sure who activates our fonts or yours, but I don't think i'd ever use anything except the propped totem one.

Totem font is "Fuck you we're coming in"

Damage font is more of a, "we don't want you here, so we'll force you out after the damage stacks unreasonably."

Damage font should increase the speed on the passive tank ticks, so we can get out fast if we can tell you don't want to fight

Anedhel

Rangor said:

Doesn't shallam have like deliver, pilgrimage and beckon to close on a room?

I know I use grove gates, track and so on lots of times to close with groups quickly.

Apart from beckon (so easily stoppable), I don't think those skills do what you think they do, if you're planning to use them to get into the bad guys' rooms.

ETA: Also, Shallam. Rangor so old.

Atalkez

Jhui said:

That may be a side effect from fighting Mhaldor, but it's better to eliminate it at the start.

Have to change tactics based on who you are fighting.

Targossas isn't Naga land, and though most of us have an arte bow, with the nerf it would be a disadvantage to us to stay in your LoS to try to snipe you to death, as we rarely have more than 1 competent serpent at a time.

Targossas is about the melee. You want some come get some, but gotta let us get to you first =p