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City destruction changes

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  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,269 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Wynedere said:
    Shirszae said:
    Wynedere said:
    I hate to agree with Silas, but he's completely right on this one. Achaea is a business, not a hobby for the developers. It isn't about what the admin wants - the players' desires should be the priority in every single decision made here. 

    I've seen a few of IRE games' admin refer to their own vision when it comes to features and drawbacks to these games. This isn't an approach IRE should be making simply because it is a -business- that earns a profit from players. You can't treat these games like hobby muds that are free. 
    Business or not, everyone has a vision for the things they create. Its one thing to say they should take into account what players want, other very different to say they should totally give in to all the players' demands just because they pay.


    You're adding to what I posted. I never said that they should give in to all the players' demands. That would ultimately end in less than desirable results. A level of common sense has to be applied, obviously. In saying that, though, you still cannot ignore what players want from these games. 
    I was mostly responding to your comment about how IRE should not have a vision for the game they are making. I find the notion ridiculous, business or not.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • RinzaiRinzai Member Posts: 178 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    My first thought is that the admins are giving in the players demands, the city/war system was not perfect and they have changed/tweaked it to be something they think is better. I have such little experience with this new system to really honestly judge if I think it works or can not work, so far I like it other than (my stupid ass promoted Iocun to 5 and he resigned to get back to 3 and hopefully these errors are tiny)

    I am really interested to see the autopromote in action, but I fear it might favour the kill classes vice support classes, but I still think as Tecton said, that is something as a MoW I can help manage if I know people are constantly helping/pitching in. Or at least that is what I've been trying to do from an RP prospective an autopromote should be rewarded and recognized, thought as Cyrene is so defensive I am curious how this translates to other, offensive cities.

    But as Shirszae said we all have visions and as a player I have one to least help make Cyrenian defense more fun and rewarding.
    Exelethril
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 3,068 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To be fair, admin has been very good at picking up and adapting user suggestions. Of course we don't get 100% what we want, but a fair compromise is often reached so kudos to them for that.


    ShirszaeRinzaiSilas
  • DecanDecan Member Posts: 112 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited November 2013
    Tecton said:
    We're pretty happy with the way the army system currently works. Once we get some more live use data, we may make further tweaks, but for the moment, it meets the requirements we need it to.

    Wish there was more strategy involved than "enter city and farm PK on high value targets". Unless there is an I've missed it? And Im keenly interested in seeing the flow chart or the list of requirements use to decide satisfactory working of the Army system. This way maybe people could suggest better ideas with that information in mind.
    image
  • FlorentinoFlorentino Member Posts: 516
    Military "esteem" or "prestige" would convey that notion better, I think.
    Riley
  • FitzFitz Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 599 @ - Epic Achaean
    Military "esteem" or "prestige" would convey that notion better, I think.
    How many esteems before I can prestige for a gold warp hand.
    Draqoom
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 5,064 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Military "esteem" or "prestige" would convey that notion better, I think.

    Call of Duty much?

    Nah that doesn't resonate with me.

    I think something more along the lines of various stages of involvement have various "levels" associated with them. Much like we have with each level gained in experience.

    Say 1 defense a month is like "Defender"

    Whereas 1 defense, 1 raid, 1 room destroyed a month would be "Harbinger"

    Something along those lines. Granted this would be a rolling average type situation, or maybe even change monthly?

    Like, how many ranks can you gain in a month and make a mini-player-contest out of it.

    That way there isn't the "promote" system and the MoW doesn't have to do the rankings him/herself. Also, it would allow for progression in a manner that shows your aptitude in various situations while not directly affecting your status in Army/City.

    Thoughts?

    Ps please excuse grammar/syntax issues this is on a phone and is super lame.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,269 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I really liked the idea of army ranks as a counterpoint to city ranks. So much possibility there. I hope it'll get developed in that direction someday.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Tecton said:
    The main mechanical goal of the army system is to make it so "high value targets" -are- the priority, otherwise it'd be a case where raiders would just pick off low-level/skill adventurers and easily farm up the power needed to destroy large sections of the city. It is assumed that high-ranked soldiers are the ones who are actively participating in the offensive and defensive sorties, and have achieved their rank by being successful/skilled in these situations. 

    The secondary goal is to incentivise having raids occur when there are defenders around, preventing the same situation as the old system: only raid at 4am when there's only a handful of citizens around for an easy room destruction.

    In hindsight, perhaps we should have been a little more clear with what we had intended for the ARMY PROMOTE command - a way to recognise those who may have been assisting "behind the scenes" and may not have necessarily been rewarded via the "official" system (i.e. assisted, but may have not landed a killing blow, or provided support for those who were on the front lines). 

    The ranking system was not designed(*) as a basis for your city's military hierarchy - it is more to convey something like veteran status. We could potentially change the terminology to something other than "rank" if that is helpful. Suggestions?

    (*) That's not to say it can't evolve into that in the future, but this is how it was intended in the formative stages.
    Simpler is better. How about it actually be labelled veteran status?
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  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,938 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    omg I just realized I get like no kills and Sothantos hates me. I am going to be a conscript for life!

     i'm a rebel

  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,352 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Tecton : Just out of curiousity and if it's not too much trouble, what are the army ranks for each city? Eleusis/Ashtan seem to have the coolest sounding ranks so far.

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  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Tecton : Just out of curiousity and if it's not too much trouble, what are the army ranks for each city? Eleusis/Ashtan seem to have the coolest sounding ranks so far.
    It's true.  Join Eleusis, become a Reaper. You know you all want to.
  • SidoniaSidonia Member Posts: 408 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Penwize said:
    @Tecton : Just out of curiousity and if it's not too much trouble, what are the army ranks for each city? Eleusis/Ashtan seem to have the coolest sounding ranks so far.
    It's true.  Join Eleusis, become a Reaper. You know you all want to.
    Reaper sounds cool. Reaper of the Chaff sounds like a piece of farm equipment.
    RomKyrraWysteria
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, well, you know what they say about farm equipment. ;)
  • LiancaLianca Fire and SpiceMember Posts: 428
    edited November 2013
    You don't reap chaff, you reap the crop, and then shake the chaff from the cut crop on a barn floor, or in a giant machine before bundling.

    If anything, you might collect the chaff, or sweep it away, but not reap,
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  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What's that? Sorry, I can't hear you over all this REAPING I'm doing.  You know, as a REAPER.
    ExelethrilZeon
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Penwize and his Eleusian army.


    image
    image
    ArianisSherazadJosoulMaccabeus
  • SeftinSeftin Member Posts: 923 @ - Epic Achaean
    About group xp. Why not have group xp enabled for kills inside sanctioned raids so there wont be 5 v 1 ganks at thera for xp reasons. Also have it only affect members of thr cities army.

  • DecanDecan Member Posts: 112 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Tecton said:
    The main mechanical goal of the army system is to make it so "high value targets" -are- the priority, otherwise it'd be a case where raiders would just pick off low-level/skill adventurers and easily farm up the power needed to destroy large sections of the city. It is assumed that high-ranked soldiers are the ones who are actively participating in the offensive and defensive sorties, and have achieved their rank by being successful/skilled in these situations. 

    The secondary goal is to incentivise having raids occur when there are defenders around, preventing the same situation as the old system: only raid at 4am when there's only a handful of citizens around for an easy room destruction.

    In hindsight, perhaps we should have been a little more clear with what we had intended for the ARMY PROMOTE command - a way to recognise those who may have been assisting "behind the scenes" and may not have necessarily been rewarded via the "official" system (i.e. assisted, but may have not landed a killing blow, or provided support for those who were on the front lines). 

    The ranking system was not designed(*) as a basis for your city's military hierarchy - it is more to convey something like veteran status. We could potentially change the terminology to something other than "rank" if that is helpful. Suggestions?

    (*) That's not to say it can't evolve into that in the future, but this is how it was intended in the formative stages.
    Thank you. I am curious though, is there any incentive currently for a city's defenders to actually participate in a raid defense? The way it looks now is that the only incentive to defend is to not have a single room destroyed. However, if the defense is not successful there is a higher chance many more rooms would be destroyed. Looks to me like there is more incentive to not participate than there is to participate. (not participate = 1 room destroyed, participation means 1-10 rooms potentially destroyed)

    Is it that Tanks can be captured and can be turned in to the city for use/Gold? Is it assumed that most times the defense party will be able to beat the invaders before they can get a tank up? I feel like this is a large loophole in the system which renders it pointless and the assumption is the raiding force will match up evenly with the defense force which is actually pretty rare.
    image
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you don't want to capture a tank, dismantling it gives as much xp as room destruction is (which is a very big chunk), so that's a pretty good incentive.

    You don't have to just rush headlong into a defense either.  It's quite viable to empower the font, wait for it to stack up, and THEN rush in.  If you succeed in that defense rush, you get a tank to dismantle for a biiig chunk of sweet, sweet xp.
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cooper said:
    Because defending is fun, and pk is the reason a lot of us play the game?

    And because it's good rp to defend your city.
    I interpreted his question as "is there a reason for Hashani defenders to participate in a raid defense," which sort of rules those reasons out.  :D
    GoggoSkyeSothantosAntidas
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,623 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Penwize said:
    What's that? Sorry, I can't hear you over all this REAPING I'm doing.  You know, as a REAPER.

    Jacen said:
    Penwize and his Eleusian army.


    image



    Ah yes, "Eleusians". The mortal race of sentient treehuggers allegedly waiting in dark shrubberies. We have dismissed that claim.

  • DecanDecan Member Posts: 112 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Penwize said:
    If you don't want to capture a tank, dismantling it gives as much xp as room destruction is (which is a very big chunk), so that's a pretty good incentive.

    You don't have to just rush headlong into a defense either.  It's quite viable to empower the font, wait for it to stack up, and THEN rush in.  If you succeed in that defense rush, you get a tank to dismantle for a biiig chunk of sweet, sweet xp.
    What happens if you do not succeed after that?


    Penwize said:
    Cooper said:
    Because defending is fun, and pk is the reason a lot of us play the game?

    And because it's good rp to defend your city.
    I interpreted his question as "is there a reason for Hashani defenders to participate in a raid defense," which sort of rules those reasons out.  :D
    Correct interpretation. However, one crazy day Hashani could be the super power and some other city realizes to not have their city destroyed they should not compete. It could happen anywhere but the current example is in fact, Hashan.
    image
  • VayneVayne Rhode IslandMember Posts: 1,897 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2013
    Decan said:
    Penwize said:
    If you don't want to capture a tank, dismantling it gives as much xp as room destruction is (which is a very big chunk), so that's a pretty good incentive.

    You don't have to just rush headlong into a defense either.  It's quite viable to empower the font, wait for it to stack up, and THEN rush in.  If you succeed in that defense rush, you get a tank to dismantle for a biiig chunk of sweet, sweet xp.
    What happens if you do not succeed after that?
    Then you lose the battle...this system is an attempt to balance the rewards for both sides, not so much balance the odds of either side winning.
    image
  • CylaCyla YggdrasilMember Posts: 207 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Daslin said:
    Seems like Cyrene's figured it out!

    - 2013/11/24 07:47:29 - Cyla has been slain by the might of a pirate with an eye-patch.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:26 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Xer and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:27 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Hasar and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:30 - Cutting him down to size, an imperial guardsman has calmly dispatched Xer.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:32 - Cutting her down to size, an imperial guardsman has calmly dispatched Adison.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:34 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Cahin and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:35 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Aetous and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:39 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Saibel and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:41 - His countenance serene, a venerable Mojushai monk steps lightly over the 
    remains of Saibel and silently returns to his post.
    - 2013/11/24 07:48:44 - Defending the Heart of the Vashnars, a mountain archer has fatally pierced 
    Khalaz with a volley of diamond-tipped arrows.

    (ex)(cdbk) 4431h|100% 2823m|100% || XP:98.7% 02:49:12.037-
    In defence of Lady Melodie Le'Murzen, Arcthyos, a guardian angel has torn Khalaz's soul from his 
    body.


    let the guards do the work!


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