Combat Logs

Naliah

Exelethril said:

@Naliah - if you have the option of doing envenom curare/smash x instead of doing envenom x/smash mid, it does more damage btw

Also, I challenge you to be a best of 5  

Edit : Will also give myself a self-rune handicap if you promise not to piety the entire area and run around for an hour like in the Eleusian rampage that Rangor was in.

Seems to be misconceptions about that. That wasn't until the last 10-15 minutes or so when I lost track of his legs because he wouldn't stop applying to them and he messed me up. (Rip not taking sawbones) So I ran until his legs reset, but at that point he asked the Hashani for help and -that's- when I started throwing piety all over the place. 
And sure, but not sure at 3500 HP I would be able to tank you very well, you're far more optimized than me with your automation, but I'm always up for spars and duels. Just poke me whenever you see me online.

Mizik

Farrah said:

The classlead about piety ignores the fact that nairat and noose do the same thing.

It also seems to misunderstand that the defensive aspect of piety/gravehands goes hand in hand with its weakness of immobility. You can't chase those classes well if they run, but they can't effectively chase you if you run either, unlike Occultist and Alchemist which have mobile hinder.

So, there is a trade-off, and it can't just be made so it doesn't prevent chasing as suggested without making it worse than tentacles in every way. Similarly, you can't really attack paladin/infernal's hinder without also changing runie's nairat, which allows the exact same style.

They can chase as well as any other class within the 3 minute limb timer and just re-Piety, continue slow prep. No misunderstanding there. The mechanic is stupid.

And yeah, my nairat nerf was shot down several classleads ago. That thing is crazy.

Farrah

Priest and apostate aren't prep class. And no they cannot chase as well as classes with tentacles/wildgrowth/homunculus. If you get out of the room and keep running, you're gone because no more hinder. This is fine currently because it's a trade-off and there are other advantages to piety/ghands.

But Piety can't require priest + rite in room while tentacles requires only the Occultist. It throws off the balance and makes one better in every way. You're looking through a pretty biased lens.

Exelethril

Naliah said:

Exelethril said:

@Naliah - if you have the option of doing envenom curare/smash x instead of doing envenom x/smash mid, it does more damage btw

Also, I challenge you to be a best of 5  

Edit : Will also give myself a self-rune handicap if you promise not to piety the entire area and run around for an hour like in the Eleusian rampage that Rangor was in.

Seems to be misconceptions about that. That wasn't until the last 10-15 minutes or so when I lost track of his legs because he wouldn't stop applying to them and he messed me up. (Rip not taking sawbones) So I ran until his legs reset, but at that point he asked the Hashani for help and -that's- when I started throwing piety all over the place. 
And sure, but not sure at 3500 HP I would be able to tank you very well, you're far more optimized than me with your automation, but I'm always up for spars and duels. Just poke me whenever you see me online.

You won't have to worry about that. I'll take off all my tanking arties, go full manual and won't use self-runes/wunjo/nairat. As long as you don't drop a single piety/icewall.

Should be faster prep for you given how easy damnation is with head option + vernalius change.

Kiet

Why only the tanking arties

Farrah

Naliah does get a lot of shit for how she fights when she only has 3500 health. The combat landscape has changed so much over the years. Pretty much no one fights with that low of health anymore, and tumble out of piety is lame? RIP unartied low level scrubs.

Sobriquet

Retirement has drastically changed the combat landscape

Farrah

Retirement is just artefacts being moved around. I don't see how it changed combat, other than some artefacted players now having less artefacts and less levels, but still artefacted.

People moved from game to game, but that went both ways too. It altered group combat because of the reshuffling, if that's what you mean. I wouldn't say it affected 1v1 though.

Kiet

Traits/race spec and the slow accretion of credits/arties as people play for 10+ years is what's changed the combat landscape so much. These scenarios still happened back then, though, there were just less people with so much escrow.

If you don't want an unartied person with 3.5k hp to run from you, take off your arties, simple enough. If all's fair on your side, why's it not fair on theirs?

Dunn

Or don't fight people that play in a manner that you dislike. Tirac has always been on my shit list because of his style and it angers me to fight him so I don't. Simple stuff. 

Kiet

I mean Tirac has like 6-7k hp in lesserform and has prolly 15k+ escrow so it's a bit unfair to compare him to an unartied 3500 health person.

But yes, just don't fight people that play that way. The problem is more that Achaea mechanics (limb prep specifically) encourage this kind of fighting, and the only thing that stops everyone from doing it is it's kind of boring and (sometimes) because people see it as cheap. If the only deterrent to optimized play is just the person's personal honor/boredom tolerance then that's an issue with the ruleset/gameplay more than the person imo.

Zamora

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5cd3f992

I'm -really- struggling. Can't get hits in as either paralysed or he dodges. I either get locked or die to Darkshade. 

ANY tips at all gratefully appreciated. Highlights, gagging, counters, combos. anything?  I managed to get him prone once i think in three spars

Kiet

Bigger problem there was you kept hitting parry/rebound.

Aerek

Yeah, DWB vs Serpents' para/clumsy is rough, but you should make more use of EX left arm's parry bypass. No reason you should be hitting parry like that. Try to manage rebounding a little better, perhaps make your shield/rebound highlights more obnoxious, but granted Serpents spamming rebound/shield illusions make it difficult to be efficient with that. Consider curing clumsiness before lethargy; since DWB isn't stacking afflictions like other classes, I find clumsiness more damaging than lethargy as DWB. Better to take a 25% balance penalty but get the hit and reset the momentum timer, than to miss entirely and lose that time/damage pressure/momentum.

With flails' slow speed, you need to make sure each hit counts, as a single missed/parried/rebounded hit means you lose momentum and they have time to catch up on health curing. Alternatively, carry a pair of morningstars to use against high-hinder classes; if you can afford Mutilators, you can afford 100 lessons for stars. You'll have to study more complex setups for star prep or Pulp, but with stars you can react faster and not lose so much time/momentum on missed/rebounded hits, and you still have the option of switching to flails post-break for damage options.

As for defense, locks vs Knights are really strong right now. Fitness is stopped by weariness, which is buried in the same kelp stack that hides asthma in the first place. I really dislike that, as it forces Knights to prio extremely defensively to stop from getting locked quickly. Changing that was rejected citing Knights high hindrance capability, but we can see not all 4 styles have S&B hindrance on their side. Any time you have weari/asthma at the same time, you kinda have to deal with that, since Serpents can deliver imp/ano/sli together if they're good. Prio weariness when you have asthma, and use Fitness proactively if you ever have asthma and impatience or slickness together. For darkshade, you just have to recognize when it's catching up with you, (you can count the "ticks") and move it to the top of your prios and run/shield until you cure it.

Overall, I don't find fighting artefacted Serpent as DWB/2H enjoyable at all, sad to say. You have to stop your offense often to swap prios and stay alive, but that's just how it is. In this specific case, Gero doesn't have a lot of health, so once you can play the defense game and avoid the quick locks and darkshade deaths, you can probably get him with a single or double leg break, given Engage and flail damage.

Kiet

It's a fair price to pay to find serpents annoying given dwb can just smash them in a few hits

Aerek

Until you start fighting real Serpents who aren't fragile, sure. DWB/2H vs Kiba/Cresil/Dochitha/etc is an exercise in futility.

Zamora

Massive thanks to @Tolan who's just helped me start scripting a shield / rebounding tracker off the back of this

Kiet

Aerek said:

Until you start fighting real Serpents who aren't fragile, sure. DWB/2H vs Kiba/Cresil/Dochitha/etc is an exercise in futility.

I wasn't aware having 20k in escrow was the only way to be a 'real' version of a class but sure. Assuming you're equally artied though...

Farrah

Zamora said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/5cd3f992

I'm -really- struggling. Can't get hits in as either paralysed or he dodges. I either get locked or die to Darkshade. 

ANY tips at all gratefully appreciated. Highlights, gagging, counters, combos. anything?  I managed to get him prone once i think in three spars

Leave the room or spam shield if the afflictions are getting rough. The absolute worst thing you can do as a class that doesn't even really hinder is keep attacking when you're pretty loaded with afflictions. If you can get enough hits fast, you might be able to prep fast. If you keep missing and getting dodged, parried, rebounded, etc., you aren't going to beat their setup with your prep. So, you have to go defensive, cure up, then continue prepping.

Mizik

   Mutilator flail             140     168     168                                                 350 credits

 morningstar183364 a savage, Ashtani morning star                  1    3150gp Priceless

                    Dmg:  70;  To-hit: 188;  Spd: 207

@Zamora ????

Antonius

Morningstars seem to have far vastly more to-hit than all the other Knight weapons for some reason. Seems odd since every other weapon type - including flails - has at most 180 when using level three weapons. I've sent Makarios a message asking if that's intentional.

Mizik

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/44cedee6

Good thing I didn't attack back! #bedevil

Though why would I? #priest #immunity

Szanthax

Omg I read until @Hirst said "you God?" And then you just walked away... I thought you were true locked lol

Cynlael

Said truelocked cause he had focus disabled (I think), and no tree balance.

Dochitha

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/087e3af6

- I prio earth disrupt
- I disable focus IF I have spirit disrupt, else I focus.
- I finished hyp, and evading trying to get a clean start, but failed.

Died horribly. Looking for suggestion.

Rangor

Dochitha said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/087e3af6

- I prio earth disrupt
- I disable focus IF I have spirit disrupt, else I focus.
- I finished hyp, and evading trying to get a clean start, but failed.

Died horribly. Looking for suggestion.

The first mistake you made was to fight a priest I think.
The second mistake was to let the priest hit you more than two times in a row.
The third mistake was to afflict the priest, because everyone knows this to be pointless.

(queue up more evades so it's harder for them to chase)

Cynlael

Rangor said:

Dochitha said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/087e3af6

- I prio earth disrupt
- I disable focus IF I have spirit disrupt, else I focus.
- I finished hyp, and evading trying to get a clean start, but failed.

Died horribly. Looking for suggestion.

The first mistake you made was to fight a priest I think.

Yep. Always the biggest mistake people tend to make, when fighting against a Priest.

Dochitha

@Rangor @Cynlael Hahaha I like that!

From Mizik's and my log, I am seeing that all the affs are buried under earth disrupt cos if you don't cure that you die quicker, but if you prio that you get buried into asthma and hellsight, and curing asthma let earth sticks and damn demon and angel are afflicting passively there's no way to slow down.

Thing is, how are we keep eating eating earthdisrupt every herb balance...I thought Priest's balance is 2.2s?

If we shield, what is the balance for a priest to break the shield, and if they can still chasten and disrupt in one single action while breaking the shield? Does chasten or disrupt goes through shield?

Rangor

You can't really prio the disrupts because there's like 4-5 of them and they are all cured by eating the same plant. So you could be eating (which plant was it again?) 3-5 times without ever curing the earth disrupt. In the meantime you died.

Cynlael

Dw tho, priest is balanced