Combat Logs

Cynlael

"Dumb enough"- if it works, then it's not really dumb of him to do it.

Jinsun

Cynlael said:

"Dumb enough"- if it works, then it's not really dumb of him to do it.

Did you look at the end of the log? It didn't work.

Cynlael

Got you complaining about it. Sounds like the ole' Proficy trick worked.

Addama

Jinsun said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/1713b041

Being able to one-hit kill ents kind of makes orbs or dameron a useless mechanic. When you're dumb enough to just fight the ent and not the attacker, do.

Might not have worked in that particular circumstance but obviously this isn't your first rodeo.  Probably worked wonders against some other Occultist at some point.  Like forcing an opponent's mending into their pack and then going to town with epseth/epteth.

Jinsun

Addama said:

Jinsun said:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/1713b041

Being able to one-hit kill ents kind of makes orbs or dameron a useless mechanic. When you're dumb enough to just fight the ent and not the attacker, do.

Might not have worked in that particular circumstance but obviously this isn't your first rodeo.  Probably worked wonders against some other Occultist at some point.  Like forcing an opponent's mending into their pack and then going to town with epseth/epteth.

Only real reason is annoying is that we have multiple entities to prevent something small killing entities, when Dameron is still active and you can just one hit our main affliction ent, it's kinda dumb. Don't even need orb sigils now.

Addama

Not everybody can one-shot your entities, though.  I probably couldn't, so orbs would be the better approach for me.

If that's your point, I mean.  I can't tell if you're complaining about orbs being pointless or just shitting on Proficy for trying something different.

Jinsun

Addama said:

Not everybody can one-shot your entities, though.  I probably couldn't, so orbs would be the better approach for me.

If that's your point, I mean.  I can't tell if you're complaining about orbs being pointless or just shitting on Proficy for trying something different.

Saying that it's a bit silly as a mechanic. It'd be like if I could just destroy a knights sword and he had to waste a balance summoning a new one each time.

Addama

Jinsun said:

Addama said:

Not everybody can one-shot your entities, though.  I probably couldn't, so orbs would be the better approach for me.

If that's your point, I mean.  I can't tell if you're complaining about orbs being pointless or just shitting on Proficy for trying something different.

Saying that it's a bit silly as a mechanic. It'd be like if I could just destroy a knights sword and he had to waste a balance summoning a new one each time.

Isn't this called, erm, hindrance?

Jinsun

Addama said:

Jinsun said:

Addama said:

Not everybody can one-shot your entities, though.  I probably couldn't, so orbs would be the better approach for me.

If that's your point, I mean.  I can't tell if you're complaining about orbs being pointless or just shitting on Proficy for trying something different.

Saying that it's a bit silly as a mechanic. It'd be like if I could just destroy a knights sword and he had to waste a balance summoning a new one each time.

Isn't this called, erm, hindrance?

hindrance is paralysis, stupidity, blocking, homonculus, etc, killing your weapon, is a bit further because it takes a full balance to even get it back, not like epteth/epseth where you just have to rewield.

Addama

Hindrance is anything that forces your opponent to do something besides attacking.  It's what gives you time to cure against affliction classes or evade a kill sequence. 

In this case, I'd say what was done to you was even more minor than Web because at least you had the option of attacking in other ways.  You don't like it because he was targeting the denizen you wanted to use, which means he was being effective at hindering your offense.

Obviously it didn't work because he still died, but you can see the intent.

Cynlael

Afflictions aren't the only method of hindering, broski.

Running like a little bitch is hinderance, for example. It's stopping your offence from having an effect, AKA hindering your ability to kill them.

Jinsun

-sigh- how hard would a knight rage if it required a full balance to rewield swords? 

The other reason is that it makes little since when there are entities whose whole purpose is to keep others from being destroyed/banished.

Addama

Jinsun said:

-sigh- how hard would a knight rage if it required a full balance to rewield swords? 

The other reason is that it makes little since when there are entities whose whole purpose is to keep others from being destroyed/banished.

I don't think the point of Dameron is to make your entities invincible, nor should it be.  Unlike Vibes/Harmonics/Rites, your ents move with you freely which is a significant advantage.  If I don't want to fight a Magi in their Vibes, I have to force them out of a room.  If I don't want to fight an Occultist with their ents, I kill the ents.

This whole sword analogy is also dumb because web tattoo/hangedman/transfix effectively forces me to use a full balance just to writhe, so that already exists and people use it against me all the time.  I don't come here whining that it takes balance to writhe.

Dalran

You can't really compare entities to vibes/harmonics/rites though. No priest/paladin/magi/bard has to absolutely have those to even compete, an occultist literally can not compete without a few essential entities. Bloodleech is one of those must have ents. Sure perhaps killing it should be fair hindrance, but I disagree that one hit from anything should  kill it, just way to fast to kill. Dameron/Golgotha shouldn't make it invincible, but it should make it take more hits to kill it, at least. It's weird to, because the worm, which is pretty irrelevant in a lot of 1v1 fights, takes like 10 warps or so to kill, where bloodleech takes two warps from me (unartied). Seems a bit backwards.

Jinsun

Addama said:

Jinsun said:

-sigh- how hard would a knight rage if it required a full balance to rewield swords? 

The other reason is that it makes little since when there are entities whose whole purpose is to keep others from being destroyed/banished.

I don't think the point of Dameron is to make your entities invincible, nor should it be.  Unlike Vibes/Harmonics/Rites, your ents move with you freely which is a significant advantage.  If I don't want to fight a Magi in their Vibes, I have to force them out of a room.  If I don't want to fight an Occultist with their ents, I kill the ents.

This whole sword analogy is also dumb because web tattoo/hangedman/transfix effectively forces me to use a full balance just to writhe, so that already exists and people use it against me all the time.  I don't come here whining that it takes balance to writhe.

The point of dameron is not to make them invincible no one is arguing that . It's to require you to orb dameron before you can kill the others. So in this case dameron is pretty useless except in rites. The fight after the one I posted he ran me out of pacts. Having to go to a whole other plane just to fight back is a pretty annoying cost if they're not using orbs .

Addama

I said something to that effect earlier - somebody like me can't kill the bloodleech in one attack, and so it's not really hindering if it takes me two balances to stop something you can have back up in one balance.  Not to mention I lose any momentum I've got going on you.

If artied damage is stupidly effective against ents, then I'm not sure if that says more about artied damage or ent hitpoints.

Jinsun

Pathfinder got lowered to be within easier range. I'm not sure why asking for. 3-4 balances to kill the other ents with arties is such an unreasonable thing to ask considering most class ents have that much health anyway

Addama

Jinsun said:

The fight after the one I posted he ran me out of pacts. Having to go to a whole other plane just to fight back is a pretty annoying cost if they're not using orbs .

So you're saying it would be less annoying to run out of pacts if I were doing it a different way?

Also I'm still pretty sure the problem isn't so much ent hitpoints as it is Proficy doing stupid high damage being an artied Alchemist.

(though I agree that collecting karma to go to the Chaos Plane to buy ents to be killed in combat is a pretty frustrating/repetitive mechanic if you're anything more than a casual combatant)

Jinsun

Addama said:

Jinsun said:

The fight after the one I posted he ran me out of pacts. Having to go to a whole other plane just to fight back is a pretty annoying cost if they're not using orbs .

So you're saying it would be less annoying to run out of pacts if I were doing it a different way?

Also I'm still pretty sure the problem isn't so much ent hitpoints as it is Proficy doing stupid high damage being an artied Alchemist.

(though I agree that collecting karma to go to the Chaos Plane to buy ents to be killed in combat is a pretty frustrating/repetitive mechanic if you're anything more than a casual combatant)

No I'm saying that destroying half of my pacts with an entity thirty seconds into a fight is overkill. If it took more than one balance it'd at least be more worth your time to focus on offense than hoping to keep me still long enough without a blood leech to kill me.

Xith

So nice to hear that occies have problems too. They're almost just like people.

Jovolo

The point of the occie upgrade to minion(?) definitely was to make ents immune to the one-shot drop that they were susceptivle to prior to the change. See: orb/banishment.

That it exists in a different incarnation doesn't make that incrnation okay. You just shouldn't be able to drop ents in one (or even two) hits 

Xinna

When entities were passive attacks, killing them was necessary in some instances. Now that they're active attacks, though, it's a bit strange that they're even killable at all, imo.

Either combat is balanced around the entities being killed, and that is basically required to survive against occultist, or it is balanced around the entities being there, and players being able to kill them in addition to other methods of surviving seems somewhat unnecessary. I'd prefer the latter.

Though, isn't there another physical affliction entity other than bloodleech that the occultist can use? I can't remember.

Dalran

There were 2 mental aff ents, but that was changed a bit, humbug gives mental affs and storm only gives 1 aff (vertigo) might be what you're thinking @Xinna‌

Xinna

Ahhh. Guess so.

Mishgul

yes

Jinsun

@Jovolo, @Xinna and I agreed on something. Pack it in, folks

Jovolo

Well where's my fucking reaction then you prick

Jinsun

Geez, there calm your tits, and have a log

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/23df8c38

As much as I piss and moan about blademasters having evade. It makes death tarot tricks soooooo satisfying.

Atalkez

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/39a7e9ec

Pretty sure the "rekt" argument ends after the third person joins in. You were at 11 at that point...

Ernam

Time to fix that pre-cache, wow.  You should have survived that.  Alleviate, stand, evade, then commence the "lol, as if" tells.  Potash would have probably bought more than enough time as well, not to mention health trans.  Also, you should wield SoA while prone if you are able (you were).

Also, elemental/magic resists (and buckawns) are worth every penny.

Its refreshing to to see a BM actually dying to something, but even 3v1, you shouldn't have. (Thanks to Antidas not using pinshot).