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The new houses and their role in the modern day Achaea
I feel like the new houses are glorified High Clans with a wisp of memory of what Houses used to be.
Sure, it's supposed to be RP and player driven commitment that turns the Houses into something more and something meaningful, but do you really see that happening with every house in every city in todays achaea?
What's your feel with the new houses now that the renaissance is done and over with?
Sure, it's supposed to be RP and player driven commitment that turns the Houses into something more and something meaningful, but do you really see that happening with every house in every city in todays achaea?
What's your feel with the new houses now that the renaissance is done and over with?
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On the one hand, I definitely think new houses were necessary as part of the Renaissance. Some houses had built up a truly staggering amount of inertia over the years (and from what I've heard from speaking with people in other cities/houses, it's not unique to Eleusis). I get the feeling that in some cases, people just wanted to make the new houses into reskinned versions of the old ones, complete with the same leadership, the same rules, the same people (and the same grudges against people), even the same househalls/hangout spots/whatever. Sometimes not even reskinned versions (beyond a name change), which adds up to a lot of pushback. Some players even went dormant because their house vanished.
(As an aside to this, I would support term limits for house/city leader positions. Nobody needs to be a HL for more than maybe thirty or forty IG years at the most.)
Anyway, pushing back too hard defeats the point. There was going to be a shift no matter what. Admin flat-out saying "there is going to be a change" means denying it winds up as the equivalent of putting your hands over your ears, sticking your head in the sand, and shouting "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" until people give up in disgust. And all that will get you is a mouthful of sand.
On the other hand, in that shift from old to new, regardless of whether somebody creates something new or tries to resurrect the old, the old houses also had a staggering amount of history behind them, a weight of lore and tradition that it felt good to be a part of. And a lot of that history will be lost as old players go dormant. Maybe pulling people from the old houses into clans (e.g. the Druids and Sylvans) helps preserve some of it (although the Druids clan doesn't exactly get a lot of traffic, but perhaps that's partly the fault of the players).
I was a rogue for roughly the first forty IG years of my time in Achaea (on Sarathai, anyway - I had a couple of characters before him that are gone now) before I joined Eleusis, and when I came back from dormancy I wasn't a full member of the Druids for very long before the Renaissance (second last person to reach HR5, I think, and had the Renaissance happened a couple of weeks earlier I would have been the last). But I definitely spent a lot of time digging through all the news posts, the HHELP history files, and so on. Reading about what had happened in the past, and I can't do that any more. Well, I can read the history files, because they're saved in the clan we're using now, but the news posts in particular are gone. And although my promotion to HR5 wasn't the ritual the Heartwood Kin have, I still found it a lot more meaningful than I do taking part in the Kin ones. It felt weightier.
From that perspective, I can understand people wanting to try and save some of what they had in the old houses rather than being forced into new ones, even if (I think) it can easily cross the line into cannibalism of the old. In that sense, mourning the loss isn't a bad thing at all. Of course, I don't have the perspective of a new player now either. I'd be interested to know what people who weren't a part of the old houses think of going through their own HR5 promotion.
I also suspect that, over time, this sense will probably fade (for me, at least). Barring some catastrophe or the like, new players will appear and new history/philosophy will develop, and things will become more grounded. The new players will move to the forefront, and so on and so forth.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
then again, being newer, I lack the burden of nostalgia
As with all things there were some success and some failures when it comes down to the new houses post renaissance. Take a look at house influence for example. It is clear that some houses are more active than others, their members doing more over all. Whereas some houses may not be living up to their fullest potential, this could be coming from differing viewpoints within the house, or the house not having a clear direction for itself. One must remember that just because something looks great on paper doesn’t mean that it will actually be great when it comes to it functioning. Tweaks and adjustments must constantly be made in order to ensure that the house is at its optimal levels. When people are slow to, or unwilling to do this it hinders the house even further.
The main difference between now and then seems to be a focus on the city in general. Whereas before all the Houses were sort of doing their own thing, the new purpose for those organizations is to be part of a greater whole. Now the choice of House has more to do with how you prefer to spend your time during day-to-day activities rather than reflecting your overall values and philosophical outlook. Granted, Ashtan may be an abnormal example, since we've received a radical (and awesome[/forumrp]) new direction, but this does seem to be the case for our new Houses, at the very least.
I think that few of the houses seem to have come close to living up to their potential, let alone filling the role of those that came before. Part of this is probably due to the very inorganic way that they were founded, I suspect. While most really stellar organizations have evolved somewhat organically, the renaissance required the creation of several brand-new organizations just cut from whole cloth, as it were, and I think that's often left it hard for them to grow beyond their mechanical foundings.
The Outriders (my house) is a prime example of this, where the house was founded with a very interesting hr1-5 structure, but in the almost year and a half that it's been around has undeniably failed to grow beyond that. It was founded by bureaucrats rather then visionaries, and it shows. This sort of thing is a matter of time, of course, but after being in the house for nearly a year and a half it's hard not to be a little discouraged, at times, that it usually just feels like a second CT, with virtually nothing in the way of activities or the like to define us (we still don't have a single ceremony or graduation and have yet to have any real sort of contest or the like). Due largely to how the house was founded, I think rp has never taken the forefront, and that's making it incredibly hard to grow into an engaging environment. (though in the outrider's case, perhaps this is no surprise. Did anyone think that sticking the Mojushai and the Kindred together and trying to make something new out of it would result in a thriving, active house?)
This problem has felt mirrored to some degree in every house I've heard a lot about or been a part of (though most seem to have done better). Most often feel like usually well-designed sets of requirements, when they've been filled with awesome people, it's seemed difficult for them to develop into a cohesive unit beyond the mechanical superstructure. I too am hopeful that a new rp focus could really help with this, but it sometimes feels like we have as much inertia as the old Mojushai had, and that it's going to take some big changes in house structure/leadership paradigms/house focus before things will ever really get going. And I worry seeing some of the other houses that they're going in the same direction, and that we may have replaced the old slow houses with new slow houses.
I love the Harbs for what it is, because it's a small tiny group of really awesome people, but mechanically, like I said, I don't actually see much purpose to Houses, other than dividing people in yet another way (two Orders being the first divider).
I will say though that, whatever else you might think of them, recent changes in Achaea (I'm thinking roughly from the destruction of Shallam up to the House Renaissance era) have created a disconnect between the game's lore and its current structure. Achaea's backstory is interesting if you care about, you know, why there are Serpentlords in Hashan, or why Shallam and Ashtan are ancient enemies, or how the Church came to be, or why the Occultists are secretive, or where the Sentaari come from, or how Agatheis was on the wrong side of the War of Humanity. These new Houses by comparison, just invented arbitrarily and tossed into the world, don't have any comparable relevance to the story of Achaea. Maybe they will start to feel more substantial as time goes by, but I don't really see an easy way to deal with that basic problem.
That said, the Shield does, at times, feel like it's lacking a soul, and to a degree, it's true that in order to appeal to ALL of the combat/defense/fighter RP-interested Cyrenians, we can't develop too much of a focused identity, and that might cause a wave of nostalgia for the niche identities like the Wardens' Knighthood or the Mojushai's dedicated monk aesthetic. But as has been said, you can't replace 15 real years of org history and development in 1 year, so it just takes time. Anyone feeling that the new Houses don't have the same depth of RP and tradition as the old houses should realize that none of the original houses sprang into being fully functional, either. The Wardens, for example, didn't actually start "Knighting" people until 330 AF, 1.5 RL years after its founding, and didn't have a formal process or requirements to reach it until 364 or 382. (3 RL years) It just takes time to build that stuff, and even the old Houses had long periods where they were light on content.
My sympathies do go out to the Targossian Houses, it does seem like 3 is a strain on the population, and that a merger of the Luminai and Harbingers could really breathe the best of both those Houses into one super House that could really capture the essence and imagination of its namesake. From the outside, Mhaldor's houses also seem so similar as to be indistinct other than some basic tropes, but I hear conflicting stories on whether they're doing well or struggling to take off, so I don't know.
Overall, I would just remember that the nostalgia we feel for the old Houses likely stems from the fact that they were already fully functional, rooted in tradition, and filled with invested players when we joined them as novices. I understand that seeing the new Houses in their fledgling states isn't as immersive, (especially if you had hopes or expectations that don't seem to be panning out) but if you want the new Houses to become just as strong, you have to help build them so that when NEW players join, they will be dropped into the same fully-functional orgs with strong traditions and invested players that made you fall in love all those years ago.
It's the small stuff that adds up too. Start a weekly hangout session for your House, where you meet and just RP hanging out. If you're in a combat House, start a tournament or establish an in-House rankings system for bounty-hunting or duelists. Lore Houses can go out and try to dig into some of the aforementioned deep lore, coordinate events and expeditions. Even something simple like taking newer people on history walks, where an older player leads a group to a site and explains the history with some kind of presentation is good for not just the org, but the game.
My tl;dr is that if your House feels like it's pointless, figure out a point for it and drag others along with you for it. I know I'm not doing jack to contribute to the atmosphere of my House, and that's something I ought to be fixing. A 'point' to an org isn't some inherent property, it's something players have to imbue an organization with.
I totally feel the people who are bummed/bitter about losing those organizations; hell, I'm still salty about the Diaspora getting rocked, and that was only around for an RL year or so. I can't imagine what it must be like for the people who put so many thousands of words worth of writing into their respective orgs, only to see them get blanket-replaced when the admins decided to shoehorn in new houses. But at the end of the day, it's just giving us - as players - a chance to make something new and awesome that we really just couldn't have done before, given how ridiculous some of the old houses wound up being.
I'm also in a minority, in that I think the Targ houses are mostly fine given what's transpired, and I wouldn't have given that assessment two months ago. All you need is a dedicated, half-way competent HL and a core group of people willing to roll with it, and you can see improvement immediately. Luminai in the last few weeks have done more than the Luminai did in my first RL year of playing in Targ. Ditto with the Dawnblade. Targ's houses suffered for a long time, but it seems that having all of the houses with leaders who are willing to work is making all the difference.
tl;dr - Much of the talk about how new houses are terrible is just whining and whinging coming from people who either lack drive or creativity. If you want your house to suck less, be the person who makes it suck less. Waiting for the next Wulfen/Amunet/Balynne to come save you and make your org interesting makes you a part of the problem.
I highly recommend working with the other houses in your city to help one another build their brand. Put in novice requirements that make them need to interview someone from X house about X topic or meet with Y house in order to train in the art of Y. Build up the other houses, speak highly of them, look for ways to help them. By focusing not on yourself and making your own house the "best house" in your city you go a long way in developing your own brand and reputation.
Also, giving people responsibilities is a great way to get them invested in the house. You can't do everything yourself, you need people to help you. You need a house item designed? Put out a call asking for someone to take over the project. Need a program developed? Create a position where that responsibility falls under. Someone isn't doing their job? Don't let them stay in that position for 20 IG years before replacing them just because they are your friend and you want to give them time to "settle in". They either need to come out of the gate going a million miles an hour trying to do the duties of their position or they need to let someone else take over. And don't be stingy with HFs. Reward people for accomplishments, be observant and give praise where praise is due.
And lastly, deal intentionally with the drama in your house. There is always someone who complains about everything, who cries about other people getting HFs and makes accusations about nepotism and bribery and what not. Every house I've been in has had them. They'll either end up working very hard for the house in order to get recognition like everyone else or they'll do nothing and call it unfair that they aren't getting promotions or favors. If the former, use their skills and reward them, if the latter, ignore them and hope they leave. You don't need to defend yourself to them or "prove" that they are wrong, just focus on your own duty and let them cry themselves to sleep.
But I honestly can't say how important it is for the leaders to set the tone. Being consistent and of one mind with all the leaders in your house is extremely important. Get your own leader's clan and post post post everything, whatever you're working on, post it and ask for advice/suggestions, get everyone involved, keep everyone informed, and hold everyone accountable. Communication is extremely important, especially if you're still trying to figure out the whole purpose of your house.
You need to keep everything in line with the "theme" of your house. If you are the combatant house of your city, then everything needs to be centered around that, so don't try to buy shops in other cities to raise gold for your house, don't try to get into marketing or ritualism or scholarly endeavors as a house, let those things fall on the shoulders of the other houses in your city and rely on them for those things, don't attempt to be self-sufficient and master of all things. If your house is the scholarly/ritual house of the city, don't develop a combat training school for your members, request the combat house to do that for you. Pick an identity and role and stick to it religiously in everything your house does. Sure, your house won't be all things to all people but you don't want that.
The problem will be solved if the people in these Houses work hard to make them worthwhile, and to do that they will need the time to do so. Remember that the old Houses had several RL years to build up that lore, and it will possibly take some years for these Houses to build up a good base for themselves as well.
It will also be on the cities to not treat Houses like High Clans. That is just as important to the cities as it is to the Houses.
Making awesome Houses takes time and seriously active and interested people. I have faith, and the Luminai are really full of awesome, interested, and active people.
I'm looking at @Magenta @Kellonius @Siduri @Halos @Lavakhi @Ivis @Anke and a strong handful of others that I can't put an @ in front of their names because they stay far away from the forums, and probably more I am just forgetting because I am so tired.
But that's a big list! And that's a lot of potential. :awesome:
Personally, I have two major qualms with how the renaissance ended up going down:
The first is that it feels like an almost incalculable amount of history was largely just taken out of the game. One of the best parts about Achaea has always been the mutability of the world and the massive player shaped history. In losing the old houses, most of this was simply deleted, dissolving a vast amount of effort and built-up richness that the game world had to offer. While I do think that the new houses have all sorts of potential, the loss of everything that came before seems like a tragic blow to a player-shaped world, one only compounded by most of the renaissance events themselves being incredibly underwhelming given how much was being changed. I can more then understand the people who just dropped from the game after losing their orgs, and even if the renaissance was necessary, I wonder if these massive losses really were.
Second, and probably more importantly, I think the new houses often serve a fundamentally different purpose then the old. Many people have already commented on this in one form or another, but it seems that while the new houses were very much what your character "was," generally centered around a central achetype and ideals your character represented, the new houses are very much what you "do" and are centered around playstyles or broad themes. In a lot of ways this was probably what made the renaissance so necessary. People being around people interested in doing the same stuff is an important part of keeping players engaged, which the new houses ideally capture. The Shield is a really good example of this, where a single house for combat-interested people has done way more for creating a combat culture in Cyrene then four separate combat paths in different houses ever did.
On the other hand, this focus on including all archetypes that fit within a certain playstyle requires trying to fit a huge number of different characters within each house, and that's in some ways antithetical to the old focus. Houses used to be a primary way in which a character was defined, and the new houses will probably never be able to be as defining as the old ones were, as they're simply not trying to. Take the Shield again. While from what I've seen they've got some amazing people pushing for some very interesting ways to frame their house's position in the world, the house is so combat-centric in activities that it seems to also force it to be pretty general. Defining why one fights is important, of course, but it's hardly the same as what the Wardens or the Mojushai tried to do with it, which was the creation of a more specific culture that included combat. Combat itself will always be the most central aspect of the Shield, and I wouldn't be surprised if that always keeps it general. This frustrates me, somewhat, since it feels as if we traded in the old houses for something that didn't even try and replace them.
In my ideal renaissance, perhaps, more work would have been done to preserve the old houses in some form, be they as High clans or something new. I often feel like many of the old archetype-centered houses, free from needing to worry about being the first stop for newbies and everyone of a certain class, could have been free to act as small organizations dedicated to really defining the archetypes important to them. In some ways this was already done with the Wardens, Maldaathi, and Naga at the very least have already done this, but I'd have loved to see that sort of thing more supported by the admin and done with more houses. The new and old houses really did serve different roles, I think, and we already have evidence that they were hardly exclusive to each other.