The new houses and their role in the modern day Achaea

Exelethril

I wouldn't say Mhaldor is the weaker side, they're solid   Having friends/people you like in a city is definitely a must in anyone's books though.

Kiet

Nono, they're not the weaker side now. But when I left them originally (before I joined Eleusis), I left them because they were the stronger side. I had friends to play with on the other side, though!

I joined Mhaldor now because ICly there was like a long line of events leading up to it.

Tahquil

Rangor said:

Don't delete exterm. I haven't joined Mhaldor and tried it yet.

You did do it to whole forests on Anarchaea  though. You said it was a lot of fun on some ooc clan so I took my Eleusian in to try but no one would stop and teach her because she was a nobody. And thus, I made Tahquil to do it (and only ever did 1 room).

Magenta

BTT, from my own point of view and experience, I can honestly say that the Renaissance has been hard for the really old people (age category of @Cooper) who were used to classes and guilds defining their character's way of life and outlook on things. Taking away lore and history, the old guildhalls/House estates and most importantly, the FEELING of the old orgs is something that hurt. For me, it was a lot easier starting fresh with a character in an org, it gave me a feeling of attaching my character much stronger. Still, I have a lot of respect for people who make a hard turn or a switch with their chars to opposing factions (like @Aodfionn did a while ago or @Taraza more recently), and I think it's a rewarding experience, even if it means getting used to a new bunch of people to hang around.

Anaria

Magenta said:

BTT, from my own point of view and experience, I can honestly say that the Renaissance has been hard for the really old people (age category of @Cooper) who were used to classes and guilds defining their character's way of life and outlook on things. Taking away lore and history, the old guildhalls/House estates and most importantly, the FEELING of the old orgs is something that hurt. For me, it was a lot easier starting fresh with a character in an org, it gave me a feeling of attaching my character much stronger. Still, I have a lot of respect for people who make a hard turn or a switch with their chars to opposing factions (like @Aodfionn did a while ago or @Taraza more recently), and I think it's a rewarding experience, even if it means getting used to a new bunch of people to hang around.

I started playing back in 2014, and it has been extremely hard for me as well. 

Let me start out by saying that I LIKE multi-classing. Mostly. I am glad IRE can make more money on credit sales, and I love that people now have the option to branch out and play more things without having to make entirely new characters. I think it was done in a way that is balanced and fair and except for the fact that it has made the credit market into an untenable nightmare for new and old players alike, it is overall a major win for Achaea. That being said, it is extremely difficult to find anchor points for immersion and RP now.

Race has always been a transitory thing... changing race is as easy as reincarnating or activating your gem or hitting level 99 and suddenly having scales. There are no cities or Houses based on race. It is hard, at least for me, to base my character identity around my race when the people I interact with keep changing what they are and I know that sooner or later, I will too. My race has about as much substance as what set of clothing I wear on a given day. There is no culture behind race, although I have seen some people make an effort with varying degrees of success to try to present one.

Class was really where it was at in terms defining roles. The old Houses seemed to draw their substance from class archetypes. A serpent, for example, was special because she had a set of specialized skills that nobody else had. She had a House not only teaching her the trade, but also providing a class based culture and a specific outlet for her skills. An entire bank of lore went along with the class. Now though, everyone can be everything given enough time... Houses are no longer about class. The 'culture' of the classes has to some degree evaporated. While not as transitory as race, I think a lot of the old meaning behind the archetypes has been lost.

The old Houses were themselves reincarnations of the Guilds which were all about class. Now the Houses don't seem to be about anything. I realize that is not a fair blanket statement to make because some Houses are developing an identity better than others are but where the old Houses had foundations, the new Houses have templates. For me to care about a group I first of all need to clearly understand what it is about, second, what I'm doing there, and third, what exactly I'm getting out of it. I need something more than a vague/incomprehensible one word name and a paragraph worth of outline if I'm going to dedicate a character with years worth of work behind it and inherit a Houses checklist tasks and built-in limitations. You expect that sort of thing from a clan or high clan but not a HOUSE.

Right now everything feels disconnected from everything else. Like a bunch of individual puzzle pieces that don't fit together to form a picture anymore. The lore and history of the world is disconnected from what now exists. The classes are disconnected. The races are disconnected. The sub orgs (clans and high clans) are both numerous and disconnected. We have maximum creative freedom, which is good, but nothing seems to support or compliment anything else. There is no depth. And it is in this environment that we are told to build Houses from scratch with virtually nothing to base them on other than the memory of how things USED to work and the overall mission statement of the city that hosts the House. I ask again, why join one at all unless you are forced to? And if you are forced... you didn't really chose it and you probably don't really care enough to invest more than the minimum in it.

You can't build any structure without having a solid foundation first. This is fundamentally where I feel the Renaissance went wrong and what most needs to be corrected about the game itself.

Vansittart

Huh, this is a really interesting read.  It doesn't surprise me that people feel this way.  The problems with Houses were always structural.  Sweeping them away and replacing them with something that was structurally identical was only ever going to achieve something in the organisations where relationships were completely and utterly broken (cf Hashan).  All you've done (IMO) is replicate the problems and got rid of a lot of the depth that the old Houses had accumulated through their long history.

Aerek

That is what half the thread feels, yes.

Sylvaria

I like this better than houses after auto class, though, that was a hot mess. I still PREFER guilds, but that has a lot to do with RP, and even though some of the guilds gave you such a stupid mess of requirements (looking at you, occies and knights!) I guess it'll always be a struggle with mass change. Honestly this is my favourite system so far of the three when I consider the cons and pros of it all, but it'll definitely take time, and time I'm willing to give them.

Tahquil

Guilds were a bit of a hot mess themselves. I wasn't druidy enough for the druids so after I failed my exam I was kicked from the class. I wasn't merchanty enough for the merchants so I had magi cut out of my life as well.

Sylvaria

Tahquil said:

Guilds were a bit of a hot mess themselves. I wasn't druidy enough for the druids so after I failed my exam I was kicked from the class. I wasn't merchanty enough for the merchants so I had magi cut out of my life as well.

Not saying they weren't, and I do agree Autoclass was a great boon (having forestalls dominate the concoctions market was brutal), I guess from a perspective of just respecting RP I liked guilds, but houses felt like were guilds but a lot less intrinsic. I think this will be the best system but needs time.

Kakotas

I think I can sum up the idea here... Hitting delete on history just to solve structural problems wasn't the best move. But now there is a need to legitimize through establishing historical events (Involvement on all levels) for all the new things that have been created. It used to be that newer things were tied to older establishments so there was a since of continuity or at least that a puzzle piece should fit properly in a certain area (even if it didn't always work there that ideally it would fit there). Since what is lacking for many of the newer orgs is a relation to anything historical or legitimizing beyond "we said so tldr" What is needed is new stories and places that can give the epic feel of being tied back in to each of these new areas.

I'm not exactly sure how to do that with each org because I almost feel like your asking the Gods to custom make an entire story for each org (something that wont happen they don't have that kind of time). But I do understand the feelings and some of it might be a bit justified. The hard part is everything is so individual now it's a struggle to find consensus things that make a big enough difference to create these pieces of defining culture. #IhopeIjustmadesenseifnotsomeonetellme

Kaden

Kakotas said:

I think I can sum up the idea here... Hitting delete on history just to solve structural problems wasn't the best move. But now there is a need to legitimize through establishing historical events (Involvement on all levels) for all the new things that have been created. It used to be that newer things were tied to older establishments so there was a since of continuity or at least that a puzzle piece should fit properly in a certain area (even if it didn't always work there that ideally it would fit there). Since what is lacking for many of the newer orgs is a relation to anything historical or legitimizing beyond "we said so tldr" What is needed is new stories and places that can give the epic feel of being tied back in to each of these new areas.

I'm not exactly sure how to do that with each org because I almost feel like your asking the Gods to custom make an entire story for each org (something that wont happen they don't have that kind of time). But I do understand the feelings and some of it might be a bit justified. The hard part is everything is so individual now it's a struggle to find consensus things that make a big enough difference to create these pieces of defining culture. #IhopeIjustmadesenseifnotsomeonetellme

Nothing stops people from custom-making their own story for the org (with a little godly assistance). We can't just ask for everything handed in a silver platter. I'm not sure how successful I was but I did try to anchor the Shield to the past and Cyrene's history in some way. That's where the thing with the Shield's House Hall already being a former barracks/ruin until Ainghael came to nom on everything came from. Hoping they take it and run away with it, really.

Kakotas

Kaden said:

Kakotas said:

I think I can sum up the idea here... Hitting delete on history just to solve structural problems wasn't the best move. But now there is a need to legitimize through establishing historical events (Involvement on all levels) for all the new things that have been created. It used to be that newer things were tied to older establishments so there was a since of continuity or at least that a puzzle piece should fit properly in a certain area (even if it didn't always work there that ideally it would fit there). Since what is lacking for many of the newer orgs is a relation to anything historical or legitimizing beyond "we said so tldr" What is needed is new stories and places that can give the epic feel of being tied back in to each of these new areas.

I'm not exactly sure how to do that with each org because I almost feel like your asking the Gods to custom make an entire story for each org (something that wont happen they don't have that kind of time). But I do understand the feelings and some of it might be a bit justified. The hard part is everything is so individual now it's a struggle to find consensus things that make a big enough difference to create these pieces of defining culture. #IhopeIjustmadesenseifnotsomeonetellme

Nothing stops people from custom-making their own story for the org (with a little godly assistance). We can't just ask for everything handed in a silver platter. I'm not sure how successful I was but I did try to anchor the Shield to the past and Cyrene's history in some way. That's where the thing with the Shield's House Hall already being a former barracks/ruin until Ainghael came to nom on everything came from. Hoping they take it and run away with it, really.

I love the shield... It's one of the ones that makes sense. I'm referring to a lot of the other houses that dont not necessarily a cyrenian problem but game wide.

Krypton

Tahquil said:

Guilds were a bit of a hot mess themselves. I wasn't druidy enough for the druids so after I failed my exam I was kicked from the class.

Some guilds were "ganged up," too. Like if you didn't make it as a Sylvan, the Druids guild wouldn't accept you either. And vice versa.

I don't remember wtf that was all about anymore, it was so long ago -- but boy, was that some major suckage.

Halos

Kaden said:

Kakotas said:

I think I can sum up the idea here... Hitting delete on history just to solve structural problems wasn't the best move. But now there is a need to legitimize through establishing historical events (Involvement on all levels) for all the new things that have been created. It used to be that newer things were tied to older establishments so there was a since of continuity or at least that a puzzle piece should fit properly in a certain area (even if it didn't always work there that ideally it would fit there). Since what is lacking for many of the newer orgs is a relation to anything historical or legitimizing beyond "we said so tldr" What is needed is new stories and places that can give the epic feel of being tied back in to each of these new areas.

I'm not exactly sure how to do that with each org because I almost feel like your asking the Gods to custom make an entire story for each org (something that wont happen they don't have that kind of time). But I do understand the feelings and some of it might be a bit justified. The hard part is everything is so individual now it's a struggle to find consensus things that make a big enough difference to create these pieces of defining culture. #IhopeIjustmadesenseifnotsomeonetellme

Nothing stops people from custom-making their own story for the org (with a little godly assistance). We can't just ask for everything handed in a silver platter. I'm not sure how successful I was but I did try to anchor the Shield to the past and Cyrene's history in some way. That's where the thing with the Shield's House Hall already being a former barracks/ruin until Ainghael came to nom on everything came from. Hoping they take it and run away with it, really.

So much this (and a brilliant example @Kaden).

Nostalgia and structural worries aside, if Renaissance Houses fail or succeed, it will be (almost) entirely due to creativity (or lack thereof) of the players with characters in them, not because of admin. The guilds and greater of the old Houses didn't start off awesome. They became awesome and fun and engaging exactly because of the stories, time, and effort that many generations of characters put into them (with patron help).

If a lot of it feels disconnected from history, it is. It's your job to connect it. It's your job to make history. We're all getting blank canvases to build brand new orgs from the ground up with very loose guidelines from city patrons. This is an opportunity of a text lifetime. A fast (or slow) track to iconic character status. Do not fail. Anyone who comes after will remember you or forget you based on the contributions you make in these early days.