The new houses and their role in the modern day Achaea

Asmodron

I just want to know, whose bright idea was it to give 1 individual the power over forest enemy and unenemy status? I've had an easier time trying to finish a last minute mid-term project than to get that status fixed.


Seriously, at this point, just make forest enemying fade away with time (if you dont harm the forest) like enemy statuses to areas.

Anedhel

I'd be very happy if Houses took on a kind of higher-learning institution role, rather than an everyone-has-to-be-in-one role. If they could be very focused, high-expectations, well-defined set of organizations that are dedicated to very, very specific purposes, that'd be great. This whole has-to-be-easy-for-everyone thing just kind of makes them feel very watered down and farcical.

Kyrra

Anedhel said:

I'd be very happy if Houses took on a kind of higher-learning institution role, rather than an everyone-has-to-be-in-one role. If they could be very focused, high-expectations, well-defined set of organizations that are dedicated to very, very specific purposes, that'd be great. This whole has-to-be-easy-for-everyone thing just kind of makes them feel very watered down and farcical.

There is no reason why they cannot be that way. It's completely up to the players to define what their Houses do. If I'm not mistaken, Aodfionn and Daeir revamped the Harbingers from progression right down to the rank names. 

Ideally, you want people to be able to reach HR3 easily enough but even with the easiest of requirements, there are always a few that just sit on a particular rank for whatever reason. Very few Houses seem to have solid progression past HR5 to work toward something, but that's speculation mostly on my part from the few different Houses that I've checked out with alts.

I prefer having progression and things to work toward, but other people just want to do combat or hunt, or they are the social sort that just want to sit around and RP. 

Anedhel

It isn't up to players to decide what they want their Houses to be.

In Targossas' case, at least, the vision for the Houses was something that was handed down from Divine Patrons and active Leadership, at the time.

Alaskar

I actually started to type something similar last night, but ended up not posting it. I love the idea of Houses becoming prestigious institutions that represent major functions of their faction. The Dawnblade should -be- the army, tasked with security and counsel, etc., with similar roles for other houses. I don't think entry should be mandatory, but that citizens should have to apply for membership in a House, through an application process that stresses RP and knowledge rather than arbitrary checklists and such. Coming from Mhaldor, but recently seen the Light?  Great! But why should the Harbingers entrust you with carrying their titles and representing them to Achaea? How can you serve them? Perhaps more importantly, how will you prove these things to the House? It'd require a major shift in how Houses are structured, but it'd be cool to see Houses actively recruiting cities, attending newbie graduations with little recruiting booths, showing off their uniforms or proclaiming the benefits to earning acceptance into their House.

Really, I love the idea of Houses gaining notoriety through functioning as higher education/prestigious institutions. When someone bears a Dawnblade title, I think it should symbolize to the rest of Achaea that they are warriors, in the same manner that in real life the title Marine symbolizes something other than Soldier, and similar for Operator or Seal. Or a Harvard graduate compared to a community college graduate. Or PhD  vs an assocoates, etc.

Sobriquet

Asmodron said:

I just want to know, whose bright idea was it to give 1 individual the power over forest enemy and unenemy status? I've had an easier time trying to finish a last minute mid-term project than to get that status fixed.


Seriously, at this point, just make forest enemying fade away with time (if you dont harm the forest) like enemy statuses to areas.

Forest enemy status is one of the very annoying. I appreciate I tagged along to an exterm and am enemied to Eleusis, but it's been.. 100 years maybe since I did that

Tibitha

It's great to say Houses shouldn't have checklist requirements but should depends on the "motivation and creativity of the player". But if you're in a situation like Targ where everyone HAS to join a House, they're not necessarily there because they really want to get in, they're there because it was the best of the three options they HAD to take (and honestly most of those that don't really want to be in a House is just going to join the Dawnblades, because we all do combat anyway, so eh). You can't apply Order type reqs to a mandatory institution.

That being said, the Harb requirements are designed around making sure you have the knowledge, above and beyond the the normal citizenry to be a Harb. The "how" you get and show that you have that knowledge has guidelines, but my mentors have pretty free reign to change it up or not, since we're so small.

Atalkez

Getting unenemied to the Forests and Eleusis has been the hardest thing I've had to do since I started playing this game. It was easily the most unpleasant process I had to go through. Not blaming anyone in particular or anything like that, but it was pretty terrible.

Kafziel

Atalkez said:

Getting unenemied to the Forests and Eleusis has been the hardest thing I've had to do since I started playing this game. It was easily the most unpleasant process I had to go through. Not blaming anyone in particular or anything like that, but it was pretty terrible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
not sure I could agree any harder

Melodie

Edit: Off-topic question I ended up discussing on a clan. Carry on with the House conversation!

Atalkez

Yeah there wasn't much RP to it until the actual unenemy phase, which Rangor does a great job with.

It was basically every single instance of dealing with the hierarchy of Eleusis/Forests prior to that, that made it ridiculous to even deal with. I made a promise so I went through with it, or I would have given up after the first two weeks. It shouldn't take 2 irl months to get unenemied to a faction, regardless of what your fine or whatever is. Especially (in my case) if it was something small like a single instance of being in the same room of someone who was exterm that got me enemied to the Forests. My fine to Eleusis was 20k gold at the time. Why did it take 2 irl months to overcome that? Again, not pointing fingers or blaming anyone.

Just was not fun to deal with in the slightest, until the actual RP that Rangor did. That was pretty fun to see, but after so long of waiting etc it was really watered down to "please just hurry up" which sucked a bunch of the fun out of even that.

Melodie

Atalkez said:

Yeah there wasn't much RP to it until the actual unenemy phase, which Rangor does a great job with.

It was basically every single instance of dealing with the hierarchy of Eleusis/Forests prior to that, that made it ridiculous to even deal with. I made a promise so I went through with it, or I would have given up after the first two weeks. It shouldn't take 2 irl months to get unenemied to a faction, regardless of what your fine or whatever is. Especially (in my case) if it was something small like a single instance of being in the same room of someone who was exterm that got me enemied to the Forests. My fine to Eleusis was 20k gold at the time. Why did it take 2 irl months to overcome that? Again, not pointing fingers or blaming anyone.

Just was not fun to deal with in the slightest, until the actual RP that Rangor did. That was pretty fun to see, but after so long of waiting etc it was really watered down to "please just hurry up" which sucked a bunch of the fun out of even that.

This is basically what I heard in a clan. It's a shame the orgs make it such a pain in the ass to get to the actual interesting parts, but unfortunately that's on the players (and those who are the players' bosses) to see to.

Clearly some people might need a kick in the rear or replacing!

Aodfionn

Team Green has always been hell to get unenemied to. 

Kiet

Eleusis just has an issue with bureaucracy from like the days of oakstone, and it's made worse by the fact oakstone disappeared and now there's like single-person bottlenecks at various points, so you have to wait for specific people to be online.

Aelyn

If you think getting unenemied to Nature is difficult, try being the person that has to deal with every request, record, and ego that goes with resolving each status. I could write an entire essay on the subject of forest enemy status. Everyone's view on what constitutes a long wait in relation to their status is incredibly subjective. Sometimes everyone is taken care of, other times a bunch want their status addressed at the same time. Sometimes I'm stuck sitting on my hands until the powers that be approve my suggestions or answer questions.

I had input on what I thought was fair or not for the current requirements, but the final decision wasn't the High Warden and the Trials pre-date the position. In fact, I have a proposal waiting right now to help reduce wait times and requirements for minor offenders. Quite frankly, I don't want 20 messages from someone who assisted once 20 game years ago either.

I have long argued that extermination is an outdated mechanic that is more grief than entertainment. It should be a very minor thing for flavor and conflict, if it exists at all, and not have near the effect on player time, effort, and emotion that it does. But I've had that same argument for a few game centuries and never seen it change.

This has kind of gone off from the subject of current Houses. But anyone with questions on forest enemy status is free to message me here or in game.

Kafziel

fwiw @Aelyn I don't have any complaints about dealing with you specifically, and I also appreciate that OHs and High Wardens and MoS and stuff have to deal with a lot of people wanting to be unenemied. The part I find worst about Eleusis specifically is that each unenemying is dependent on the previous. You need to get unenemied to Artemis/Gaia, then the forests, then Eleusis (I haven't even asked about the Houses so I hope that's not an extra process). If even one of those steps is held up because somebody is on vacation or something, it throws the rest out until they're back. But it's not that big of a deal, I just get triggered every time some forest wolf jumps out and attacks me when I'm trying to bash

Alrena

I've always been in favour of making being unenemied a lot smoother. Unfortunately, the High Warden position was created specifically to be out of Eleusis' hands, because apparently there was concern Eleusis would slap forest enemy status on every enemy of Eleusis. That said, @Aelyn is doing a good job with it, and it's a hell of a lot of paperwork as she's basically been told "You're Oakstone now, have fun doing what five people did before you!". Still, I think she's doing pretty well, considering she's one person.

If there is a way that would make things smoother, it's probably looking at the term of "5 years without an offense", which is mostly an issue if you exterm/assist just before you ask to be unenemied. That said, I'm all for deleting exterminations and forest enemy status. Eleusis doesn't need that mechanic anymore to be relevant, and there's far better and more entertaining ways to pick a fight with us! 

Saeva

I just wish we'd get rid of exterminations and forest defs all together. I hate them both. /tangent

Rangor

Don't delete exterm. I haven't joined Mhaldor and tried it yet.

Aesi

This may sound dnot my but would anyone mind explaining the exterm thing? I don't know what it is

Aquil

Apostate and Infernal (Necromancers) get access to a channeled ability that induces the highest level of grief against Team Green because ignoring an extermination literally goes against every value an Eleusian has sworn oath too. It's not just a taunt, it's literally killing Nature and taking its essence. Which would be great for RP if it had some form of balance, but insteaaaad it goes like someone Ayoxele or some newbie Necromancers running around and exterminating then running away back to Mhaldor and boasting they did Evil. We had a lot of newbie Mhaldorians who had tasks to do some feat of Evil apparently so they decided to exterminate then run as fast as they could back home.

On the flip side if Mhaldor is trying to borderraid they have to sit in Forest Defs which are not only annoying but can actually kill people if they sit still long enough due to bleed, damage, and so on and forth. You also can't swing up into the trees as an enemy to Nature and so on, so the solution to Border Raid is to exterminate to remove the Forest Defs.

So really, both shouldn't even exist anymore honestly and it's been pleaded by so many people that forest defs should be gotten rid of along with the same amount of people (including Mhaldor as you can see) that they'd be just as happy with exterminate gone. It doesn't bring RP, it doesn't bring any fun, and it's so annoying to have to try and stop a group of people out dedicated to exterminating every room in a forest. Because as an Eleusian we can't just 'ignore' an extermination. (You technically can, no one is putting a gun to your head) So it's more than just some Mhaldorian/Nihilist running out at Targ and shouting baits, this is literally a form of killing off Nature and the ultimate form of goading Eleusian warriors out. In a lot of ways Eleusis is more likely to respond to an extermination than they are to a shrine defilement.

@Aesi

Aesi

Thanks!

Kazu

To add on to the above posts, it's also really easy to abuse timezones and just kill people's motivation to log in. I remember logging in to 100+ rooms exterm'd by Tiamat and co at offpeak hours. It used to be really bad when exterms in offplane areas didn't repair themselves. Xenomorph and Tiamat would sail out to islands and exterminate them. When we'd get there, they'd usually hole up on a ship and start slinging insults at us while we waited or tried to fix it. Eventually, we'd go back and like 4-5 hours later they'd just repeat the process since they could shipreturn.

Kiet

Rangor said:

Don't delete exterm. I haven't joined Mhaldor and tried it yet.

Now's the perfect time to join M-town, bud

Austere

Kiet said:

Rangor said:

Don't delete exterm. I haven't joined Mhaldor and tried it yet.

Now's the perfect time to join M-town, bud

Don't join Mhaldor.  Their crew is tough enough. Targ needing more around your time zone.  Priest op, Deliver, two awesome divine that doesn't scared of nothing, and you get to raid with me once every few months when I have a free day to play in your timezone?  Mmmm, Targ

Bonus: already decided on your nickname,  Rang-Rang

Kiet

Bro Rangor's already had to deal with trying to lead non-coms and hesitant-coms for like 10 RL years. It's time he moved on to the elite.

Anedhel

Nickname will always be Rangroar.

Melodie

Anedhel said:

Nickname will always be Rangroar.

I endorse this message.

Exelethril

Silly @Kiet, games are only fun when you play for the "weaker" side to test your mettle Unless you have none of your own and rely on other people. 

Kiet

I ditched Mhaldor originally because I was moving to the weaker side! It's just not as fun without friends, especially when combat isn't the only thing I focus on anymore.