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JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

1. Carmain
2. Ellodin
3. Tirac
4. Mirko
5. Rennyn
6. Jhui
7. Farrah
8. Atalkez
9. Tynil
10. Dumah


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Comments

  • ArchaeonArchaeon Ur mums house lolMember Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    haha mizik u suck
    MizikAstarod
  • IaxusIaxus Member Posts: 85 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    This thread has been attempted multiple times in the past and has been locked for toxicity 100% of the time. 

    Jumpy said:
    The membership is already such a good deal that there is no way we can reduce the cost. 

  • VakvyrVakvyr Member Posts: 174 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Iaxus said:
    This thread has been attempted multiple times in the past and has been locked for toxicity 100% of the time. 
    These two weren't locked but apparently Jovolo really likes this subject.

    https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/6979/the-greatest-achaean-combatants-redux#latest
    https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/3529/the-best/p1
  • AstarodAstarod Member Posts: 630 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    1. Bruyan
    2. Zsarachnor
    3. Oberion
    4. Jeramun
    5. Nicola
    6. Rhinova
    7. Ironbeard
    8. Rurin
    9. Eko, an Aegean Squire
    10. Gnoll Sentinels


    ^^ these guys make your pk count look weak. Change my mind. 
    The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
  • VhaithVhaith Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jovolo said:
    Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

    1. Carmain
    2. Ellodin
    3. Tirac
    4. Mirko
    5. Rennyn
    6. Jhui
    7. Farrah
    8. Atalkez
    9. Tynil
    10. Dumah


    List lacks Tanris.  Bad list.

    We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.


    MizikKriex
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 2,124 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What exactly is the metric you're going by? If it's an "in their prime" sort of deal, why is Jhui not #1? And yeah, why isn't Tanris on the list?

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vhaith said:
    Jovolo said:
    Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

    1. Carmain
    2. Ellodin
    3. Tirac
    4. Mirko
    5. Rennyn
    6. Jhui
    7. Farrah
    8. Atalkez
    9. Tynil
    10. Dumah


    List lacks Tanris.  Bad list.
    It's for dueling. Tanris doesn't deserve a spot.

    If I'm talking raiding then he's unarguably #1 followed by Jhui and then RUKIMOROOOO
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pyori said:
    What exactly is the metric you're going by? If it's an "in their prime" sort of deal, why is Jhui not #1? And yeah, why isn't Tanris on the list?
    My metric is how talented & dominant fighters were compared to their peers at the time.
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iaxus said:
    This thread has been attempted multiple times in the past and has been locked for toxicity 100% of the time. 
    Wrong
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 550 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Jovolo said:
    Pyori said:
    What exactly is the metric you're going by? If it's an "in their prime" sort of deal, why is Jhui not #1? And yeah, why isn't Tanris on the list?
    My metric is how talented & dominant fighters were compared to their peers at the time.
    Then where is Tranquility?
  • LorathLorath Member Posts: 21 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Seriously. The list is missing some very big names. Outside of Astarod's which is just OP.

  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 2,124 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jovolo said:
    Vhaith said:
    Jovolo said:
    Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

    1. Carmain
    2. Ellodin
    3. Tirac
    4. Mirko
    5. Rennyn
    6. Jhui
    7. Farrah
    8. Atalkez
    9. Tynil
    10. Dumah


    List lacks Tanris.  Bad list.
    It's for dueling. Tanris doesn't deserve a spot.

    If I'm talking raiding then he's unarguably #1 followed by Jhui and then RUKIMOROOOO

    Fairly certain Tanris would swamp them in a duel as well. Just because he was predominantly a raider, doesn't mean he never fought solo. Even still, if it's just for dueling, why is Jhui 6th? He was an extremely good 1-on-1 fighter. Where's Penwize?

  • VhaithVhaith Member Posts: 207 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Pyori said:
    Jovolo said:
    Vhaith said:
    Jovolo said:
    Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

    1. Carmain
    2. Ellodin
    3. Tirac
    4. Mirko
    5. Rennyn
    6. Jhui
    7. Farrah
    8. Atalkez
    9. Tynil
    10. Dumah


    List lacks Tanris.  Bad list.
    It's for dueling. Tanris doesn't deserve a spot.

    If I'm talking raiding then he's unarguably #1 followed by Jhui and then RUKIMOROOOO

    Fairly certain Tanris would swamp them in a duel as well. Just because he was predominantly a raider, doesn't mean he never fought solo. Even still, if it's just for dueling, why is Jhui 6th? He was an extremely good 1-on-1 fighter. Where's Penwize?
    I was always pretty sure Tanris duelled often enough to  be considered more than just a raider. I would say he's probably one of the best combatants I've seen in Achaea.

    I refer you to my prior comment of 'Bad list'.

    We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.


  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,150 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tanris and Jhui are the two best fighters I've ever seen. There's no one in the game who could consistently beat them. Granted, I have a slanted exposure, having played alongside them for years and years. I'm sure each faction has their own heroes whom they've not seen lose often.

    But watching Tanris reach #1 PK in every MUD we've played off a god damned reader really gives the impression that the only limitations that man has are pure class mechanic matchup advantage/disadvantage. Brainstorming the next game breaking mechanic or combination with him and Sabiru and eventually Dunn for hours and hours every night really changed the way we all played the game.  
    image
    Austere
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 2,124 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mizik said:
    But watching Tanris reach #1 PK in every MUD we've played off a god damned reader really gives the impression that the only limitations that man has are pure class mechanic matchup advantage/disadvantage.

    Never got to play alongside him in Achaea, but in both Imperian and Aetolia he's a damn machine. His defence is just as good as his offence, and it's kinda scary. Take off his artifacts and nothing really changes, other than he might take 1 or 2 more balances to kill you.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Pyori said:
    Jovolo said:
    Vhaith said:
    Jovolo said:
    Who are the top ten fighters of all time and why aren't they Mizik? Make your case below and please be aware that you will be judged for your answers

    1. Carmain
    2. Ellodin
    3. Tirac
    4. Mirko
    5. Rennyn
    6. Jhui
    7. Farrah
    8. Atalkez
    9. Tynil
    10. Dumah


    List lacks Tanris.  Bad list.
    It's for dueling. Tanris doesn't deserve a spot.

    If I'm talking raiding then he's unarguably #1 followed by Jhui and then RUKIMOROOOO

    Fairly certain Tanris would swamp them in a duel as well. Just because he was predominantly a raider, doesn't mean he never fought solo. Even still, if it's just for dueling, why is Jhui 6th? He was an extremely good 1-on-1 fighter. Where's Penwize?
    I know Tanris would duel, of course I know that. He was predominantly a raider yes, the most prolific in the game's history. That doesn't mean I'd put him in a top-10 based on my criteria. He was never the dominant duellist, and that is what I'm ranking. 

    And again this is based on my years of playing. I didn't get to see Penwize become this dominant duellist that you're referring to. That's why he doesn't make my list. You're welcome to make your own, that's what the thread is about.

    Tranq was a few years before my time and doesn't make the list for the same reason.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,597 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The lists are always going to vary based on your perspective and play time I think. I never saw most of the people on your list dominate at 1v1. That is, I'm not denying that they were good, but dominating implies they're fighting and beating all the other "bests" and I don't really remember seeing that.

    When I think about who has "dominated" across various time periods I've played in, the people who come first to mind are Tanris, Jhui, Iakimen, and Santar, probably, in no particular order.

    That is, those are the people I would see killing everyone, not just fighting in select settings. Tynil, for example, always seemed like an arena warrior to me, and thus mostly just fought people in Cyrene or people who joined rampages. A lot of people don't join rampages so I don't feel like I personally observed him fighting "the best" regularly. But it's entirely possible -I- didn't see things, too. Hence perspective and play time mattering.
    AstarodJovoloUtianima
  • KogKog Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Tanris takes it hands-down for me. He gave me fits on two games, and I know he rolled the other two IRE games too. I don't know of anyone else who managed anything close to that.

    Ellodin takes second. Those other fighters are good, but Ellodin had this way of winning when it didn't make any sense. "Aconite/curare until they were locked" levels of bizarre. Where did slickness/anorexia/asthma come from? How did a Runewarden give me impatience? I was a lot younger and far worse at pk, so I recognize a grain of salt is needed, but Ellodin fights were always like watching a magic show, back when.
    Jovolo
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,187 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I’d back myself against anyone on this list these days. From my perspective though:

    1. Jhui
    2. Tanris
    3. Ellodin
    4. Farrah
    5. Myself
    6. Mizik
    7. Dunn
    8. Penwize
    9. Santar
    10. Seragorn

    I agree though, these types of things are difficult. I’m much better today than I was when Jhui played, so the things I thought were insane are more commonplace. Tanris griefed me under the table when I was a noob, would love to have been able to fight him along the way.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Dalran
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's more like it, appreciate the lists
  • ExelethrilExelethril Member Posts: 3,360 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1. Farrah - strongest focus on offensive momentum and later down the line, defense 
    2. Iakimen - most solid track record and doesn't rely on automation like most on the list, volatile performance depending on class
    3. Armali - clever and very underrated, the best "if he/she had arties" case
    4. Atalkez - never used automation like most on the list and for that he gets bumped up
    5. Tynil - stable/strong performance as runewarden (I primarily use his auto system)
    6. Jhui - aggressive with a win at all costs mindset, lots of artefacts but loses a lot of points for being an automation pioneer 
    7. Seragorn - lots of artefacts and strong offense but only entered the pvp scene after developing personal auto-system 
    8. Penwize - clever, lots of artefacts and automated
    9. Rom - creative and doesn't rely on automation, I stole some of his bard strats 
    10. Cooper/Rangor - old school players with a long history
    I haven't played for 2 to 3 years-ish but I've fought everyone on this list 1v1 multiple times over the years and these were the impressions they left on me. 

    [ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]

    [ Runewarden Sparring Videos | Link ]
    AtalkezUtianimaCooperKuz
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,435 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    These lists are always hard, but my list would be really damn close to Jovolo's from the time I was most active and actually a good fighter. Some of the people that killed a lot of people weren't actually good, and just relied on broken combinations or artefacts.

    I'll throw you guys a 1999-2005ish best list just for fun:

    1. Nimos - serpent who could lock you before you even realized he was attacking
    2. Mausolous (spelled wrong probably)) - Occy that couldn't die
    3. Mordyval - occie that could kill you while he was afk
    4. Gijan - here comes the BOOM!
    5. Element - monk that could actually intentionally break your leg WITHOUT spamming JPK
    6. Khejian - absolute beast of an Infernal that would frequently fight multiple people at the same time and come out ahead
    7. Valor (this might be a wrong name, it was Jumpy's Achaean character) - could tank city defenses while bending you over with no lube
    8. Napoloen - tanky Occy that knew the maps like the back of his hand and was unable to run away from
    9. Dalamar - kill anyone as any class
    10. Galdrion - this dude just straight mauled people to death

    Jovolo
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,435 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Farrah said:
    The lists are always going to vary based on your perspective and play time I think. I never saw most of the people on your list dominate at 1v1. That is, I'm not denying that they were good, but dominating implies they're fighting and beating all the other "bests" and I don't really remember seeing that.

    When I think about who has "dominated" across various time periods I've played in, the people who come first to mind are Tanris, Jhui, Iakimen, and Santar, probably, in no particular order.

    That is, those are the people I would see killing everyone, not just fighting in select settings. Tynil, for example, always seemed like an arena warrior to me, and thus mostly just fought people in Cyrene or people who joined rampages. A lot of people don't join rampages so I don't feel like I personally observed him fighting "the best" regularly. But it's entirely possible -I- didn't see things, too. Hence perspective and play time mattering.
    Agreed on all points!

    Tynil definitely did most of his fighting in arena, but man was he good. Tirac/Carmain level and similar fighting style. Very careful and deliberate, and will come up with 52 ways to kill you while making your life miserable offensively. I absolutely loved fighting him because I was always going to learn a new way to die.

    I kinda hate how often these threads come up, but love the nostalgia. And this one didn't turn into a circle jerk 1 post in so that's kind of cool. 

    Jovolo
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 6
    Appreciate your input Cooper. I agree with the Carmain, Tirac & Tynil assessment although of those three I would rank them in exactly that order over my time of playing.

    Tynil was a brilliant fighter and flew under the radar more than he might have if he had participated in a more combat-active city. Labelling him as someone who only fought Cyrenian midbies is highly unfair because he would still beat the best of the best at the time. Were they arena duels? Yes. That doesn't mean that both parties weren't going all out. 

    Would you not list Manu, Rameus or Rennyn in the pre-2005 list @Cooper?
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,175 @ - Epic Achaean
    I wouldn't put Rameus up there only because I beat him in a duel and used no arties (literally was to settle a forums argument).   Rennyn was good.  Manu used to piss me off to no end. I only beat him once.  

    I don't like these lists for just that reason... everyone has a different perspective and it tends to lead to arguments.  But Cooper's list "back in the day" is pretty spot on.

  • ArmaliArmali Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Iakimen.
    Farrah.

    These are the two that immediately come to mind to me. I'd need to think long and hard to add anyone else to the list.
    Rom
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'd agree that Iakimen would deserve a spot from everything that I've heard, he just rose to the top after I stopped playing properly and thus I haven't been here to witness it. Credit to Iakimen 
  • KatalystKatalyst Member Posts: 29 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just making mention from my golden years when I fell in love with Achaea;

    Ryukishi
    Rennyn
    Deridius
    Ranzou
    Rangor
    Tranquility

    No argument against the rest here, these were just my own personal pains in the ass.

    Jovolo
  • PyoriPyori Member Posts: 2,124 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not sure I can do a top 10, personally.
    Top 5 though:
    Jhui / Tanris
    Iakimen
    Mizik
    Penwize

    Not rating purely on their ability to win against all the top people all the time, but also how quickly they learn new things, learn to adapt to whatever killed them (or adapt what didn't work offensively), etc. All of them were incredibly helpful with people who wanted to learn, as well. Tanris especially, if it meant there were more people for him to fight. I couldn't care less about the automation argument, either.

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