New trait changes

Sylvance

Iocun said:

Yes, the "multiple people attacking" thing was more something theoretical I added. The main application is to fight pre-damage and fake applying. A limb counter simply can't know the state of someone's limb before you first attacked them.

But even if we were to assume that it is completely replaceable by a limb counter, does that necessarily make it useless? It just makes it useless for some people - but not everyone needs to take it.

Yep, totally with you on both points: Pre-damage has cost me many a duel. And no, 'it's scriptable' has never been a good reason not to implement something!

Tael

If nothing else, testing with the limb counting trait will absolutely be useful for trying to better-approximate the actual formulas involved.

Synbios

Tecton said:

Sena said:

If questions about old traits are okay:

What exactly does Aim to Kill do? Is it something like "x% damage bonus on all criticals"? Can you say how much the damage is increased? This is something that's pretty hard to test, since denizens that can show their damage are immune to criticals.

How does Light Stepper (also Feral Spirit) differ from increased dexterity, since dexterity is mostly just increased dodge chance already?

Aim to kill adds a small bonus to the damage before it is multiplied by the critical modifier, so it gets better the higher your critical strength.

Light Stepper / Feral Spirit are the equivalent to multiple points of dexterity in the calculations for avoidance.

For the number crunchers out there...I mean @Sena: What do you make of this info? Does this make Aim To Kill a bit more attractive to bashers?

Tvistor

I think that's going to depend largely on what the bonus is.

Synbios

In that case, a speculative study on at what bonus level would Aim-to-Kill be better than Lucky should be done.

Trey

I've heard the word 'transparency' thrown around a lot. What I'd like transparency in is being able to see limb health as numbers with Sawbones. I've always been insatiably curious at the actual numbers there.

Greys

It just seems unlikely someone is going to pick up a trait for more information versus the other traits.  The new major ones I might have considered as a minor trait.  Unfortunately, I'm having a devil of a time picking minor traits as so few apply to Greys.  If only the gathering one applied to butchering.

Nim

I personally dislike minor traits in general, since most of them seem to be economic skill bonuses rather than actual character-distinguishing traits. There're a few exceptions, but not nearly enough!

@Trey: The fact Sawbones works otherwise, is a Major trait, and has a penalty attached to it, annoys me to no end. The fact that @Tecton just outright refused to give detailed information about it felt like an insult, given that it's probably viable enough to figure it out yourself through tedious, tedious effort. (You know, what most limb-break scripts are probably built from as it stands!)

ETA: then again, that's mostly just because I've gone insane from trying to figure out the exact formula behind Blademaster breaking.

Talonia

How much is the Rurin discount with Barter?

How much faster do you regenerate willpower while meditating with Master Contemplator? 

Josoul

Talonia said:

How much is the Rurin discount with Barter? 10%

How much faster do you regenerate willpower while meditating with Master Contemplator? 10%

You can always check https://sites.google.com/site/senasharpfang/racial-traits for most of the rest. 

Thanks to Sena ofc!

Iocun

Trey said:

I've heard the word 'transparency' thrown around a lot. What I'd like transparency in is being able to see limb health as numbers with Sawbones. I've always been insatiably curious at the actual numbers there.

It is being thrown around a lot, but not everybody agrees with it. I have no issues with some transparency per se, but I have issues with formulas and mechanical details being pushed to Achaea's foreground. If all mechanical details are just laid bare, people will focus on them even more for their min-maxing and the flavour aspects will become only secondary characteristics.

I do agree that more accuracy for sawbones would be great though. As it is, it helps those with strong-limbdamage attacks (e.g. maul, rend, etc.) a lot, because it's accurate enough to tell them if someone is prepped or not, while it helps those with fast-and-weak attacks much less (e.g. when I'm trying to break limbs with my dirk). But I do understand Tecton's reluctance to provide numbers. Perhaps some middle ground can still be reached that allows people to get by without creating overly complex limb counters, yet still keeps up a certain separation between Achaea's code and its presentation.

Aktillum

Level 20: Nimble                   

Level 30: Marksman                 

Level 40: Knife thrower            

Level 50: Brilliance               

Level 60: Barter                   

Level 70: Decorated                

Level 80: Light stepper            

Level 90: Master angler

I think this will be okay for Jester. I'll reset if the light stepper dodging sucks.

Trey

Iocun said:

Trey said:

I've heard the word 'transparency' thrown around a lot. What I'd like transparency in is being able to see limb health as numbers with Sawbones. I've always been insatiably curious at the actual numbers there.

It is being thrown around a lot, but not everybody agrees with it. I have no issues with some transparency per se, but I have issues with formulas and mechanical details being pushed to Achaea's foreground. If all mechanical details are just laid bare, people will focus on them even more for their min-maxing and the flavour aspects will become only secondary characteristics.

I do agree that more accuracy for sawbones would be great though. As it is, it helps those with strong-limbdamage attacks (e.g. maul, rend, etc.) a lot, because it's accurate enough to tell them if someone is prepped or not, while it helps those with fast-and-weak attacks much less (e.g. when I'm trying to break limbs with my dirk). But I do understand Tecton's reluctance to provide numbers. Perhaps some middle ground can still be reached that allows people to get by without creating overly complex limb counters, yet still keeps up a certain separation between Achaea's code and its presentation.

I'd still like hard numbers, but you raise good points regarding compromise.

Sidonia

Sylvance said:

Honestly, I can't think of a single use for that trait, because I have a limbcounter. It's great for folks who don't have one... but I'm wondering how useful it is for anybody who actually needs one. I can't think of a situation where I would need to know if a single limb was damaged.

Bolded most relevant part of your post. There are still uses for it even if you have a limb counter.

Whether they're worth a major trait slot and being beheaded every time you restore is another question.

Sohl

Aktillum said:

Level 20: Nimble                   

Level 30: Marksman                 

Level 40: Knife thrower            

Level 50: Brilliance               

Level 60: Barter                   

Level 70: Decorated                

Level 80: Light stepper            

Level 90: Master angler

I think this will be okay for Jester. I'll reset if the light stepper dodging sucks.

Why would you want +int as a jester?

Aktillum

Star + Throttle damage.

I already have 16 Con as Human + lvl 2 sip + lvl 1 health regen. I figured going for more con would just make me hit the wall of taking massive damage from attacks that scale with maxpool and not having enough sip/regen to cover for it. Figured I'd have a smaller health pool with more Int. I might actually go Dwarf and drop to 15 con but get 15 Int.

Iocun

Star tarot for group combat, probably.

Or in combination with bleed/throttle against not-so-tanky opponents, I guess.

Sohl

Fair enough, though I think receptive body would benefit you more than the increased star damage.

Aktillum

Yeah if I'm not tanky enough I'll trade brilliance for receptive body, but I'm really hoping Light Stepper does something worthwhile.

Aktillum

Light Stepper: Equivelant to "several points of dex" according to Tecton.

Goggo: Trans Weaponry, prof Handaxes, to-hits ranging from 160 - 190.

Me: 11 dex, acrobatics on, riding legendary hippogriff, Light Stepper

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Paralysis!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

You twist your body out of harm's way.

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Asthma!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Paralysis!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Absorbed!]: Shield Absorbed!!

[Afflicted]: Paralysis!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Paralysis!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Asthma!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Afflicted]: Asthma!

Goggo cocks back his arm and throws a throwing axe at you.

[Absorbed!]: Shield Absorbed!!

[Afflicted]: Asthma!

Dodged: 3/12

Aktillum

Davio: trans tekura

Me: 11 dex, acrobatics on, riding legendary hippogriff, Light Stepper

Davio pumps out at you with a powerful side kick.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

5460h, 5460m, 20616e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio unleashes a powerful hook towards you.

You dodge nimbly out of the way.

5460h, 5460m, 20616e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio unleashes a powerful hook towards you.

He connects to the torso!

Davio hurls himself towards you with a lightning-fast moon kick.

He connects to the right arm!

4787h, 5460m, 20592e, 24900w excdbk 31<-(sip health)(-339 Health) 

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

You twist your body out of harm's way.

4787h, 5460m, 20592e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

5460h, 5460m, 20562e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

Davio lets fly at you with a snap kick.

You dodge nimbly out of the way.

5460h, 5460m, 20458e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

You dodge nimbly out of the way.

5460h, 5460m, 20458e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

5460h, 5460m, 20458e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio lets fly at you with a snap kick.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

5460h, 5460m, 20434e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

You dodge nimbly out of the way.

5460h, 5460m, 20434e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

He connects to the right leg!

5126h, 5460m, 20434e, 24900w excdbk 31<-(-334 Health) 

Davio hurls himself towards you with a lightning-fast moon kick.

You quickly jump back, avoiding the attack.

5126h, 5460m, 20404e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

You twist your body out of harm's way.

5126h, 5460m, 20404e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio forms a spear hand and stabs out at you.

He connects to the left arm!

Davio lets fly at you with a snap kick.

He connects to the right leg!

4848h, 5460m, 19970e, 24900w excdbk 31<-(-612 Health) 

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

He connects to the right leg!

[Absorbed!]: Shield Absorbed!!

4848h, 5460m, 19970e, 24900w excdbk 31<-

Davio balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

He connects to the right leg!

Acrobatics + Mounted >>> Light Stepper

Eld

Testing with acrobatics+mounted+light stepper tells you nothing about the relative bonuses from each. And ~10 hits is probably way too small a sample size to get numbers accurate enough to base a decision on. IIRC, legendary mount+acrobatics is the equivalent of around 12 points of dex, so naturally they're going to be a significantly larger effect than light stepper.

Solayne

My only issue is the majority of minor traits are based on a certain class, sailing, crafting and of course let's not forget that drunks needed THREE traits.. Bladies got left out. :-/

Aktillum

Eld said:

Testing with acrobatics+mounted+light stepper tells you nothing about the relative bonuses from each. And ~10 hits is probably way too small a sample size to get numbers accurate enough to base a decision on. IIRC, legendary mount+acrobatics is the equivalent of around 12 points of dex, so naturally they're going to be a significantly larger effect than light stepper.

I tested unmounted / acrobatics off. Light Stepper alone with 11 Dex he was hitting nearly every combo, missing maybe one punch out of every few combos.

I traded in Brilliance for Receptive Body though, but kept Light Stepper incase it does a very small something.

Darklyre

Solayne said:

My only issue is the majority of minor traits are based on a certain class, sailing, crafting and of course let's not forget that drunks needed THREE traits.. Bladies got left out. :-/

You can now web/impale much more easily, and if you take the Cheap Shot trait you can actually speed up the bleeding a bit depending on who you fight.

Silvarien

Nellaundra said:

They didn't put in the anti-hug trait

Alright, alright, I won't hug you anymore. You can stab me to death if I do.

Solayne

Darklyre said:

Solayne said:

My only issue is the majority of minor traits are based on a certain class, sailing, crafting and of course let's not forget that drunks needed THREE traits.. Bladies got left out. :-/

You can now web/impale much more easily, and if you take the Cheap Shot trait you can actually speed up the bleeding a bit depending on who you fight.

You're talking about the major traits, I assume. I'm talking about the minor ones.

Aerek

Silvarien said:

Nellaundra said:

They didn't put in the anti-hug trait

Alright, alright, I won't hug you anymore. You can stab me to death if I do.

You're a Priest. No one can stab you to death.

Silvarien

Aerek said:

Silvarien said:

Nellaundra said:

They didn't put in the anti-hug trait

Alright, alright, I won't hug you anymore. You can stab me to death if I do.

You're a Priest. No one can stab you to death.

I am sure she'll find a way somehow. Or she'll get really creative and slash or bludgeon instead.

Goodbye cruel world, how I loved thee, but now I must go and EMBRACE DEATH because a woman I EMBRACED hit my head repeatedly with a blunt object.

Berenene

Yeah, I've found it hard to pick minor traits now as most don't really apply to me.  In the end This is what I went for:

Death's Boon

Master Enchanter

Master Gatherer

Eclectic

With 1 empty minor slot left for when I get to 90.  I'm thinking of picking In Service, mainly because nothing else I can really use.  I originally was going to go for Master Contemplator, being magi, but I'm also Tsol'aa and get natural willpower regen, and I've never been that low on willpower.