Walk To Command (Petition for Reversal)

Accipiter

Could we get some kind of loose tracking system at least then? Something like if you are in the area with the denizen it gives you a general direction but no distance. Wandering through an area 4 times to try to find a wandering denizen is no fun and if they are dead there is no way to tell that you found the right room but they aren't there. WALKTO denizen was a work around that gave a lot of utility and made the terrible quests in the game just keyword bingo instead of keyword bingo plus find and seek and hoping that the thing is alive.

Thaisen

Incoming...

Basic Walking Stick (1000 credits)

With this makeshift walking stick you may WALKTO denizens in your current area.

Improvised Walking Stick (2000 credits)

With this improved walking stick you may WALKTO denizens within 100 rooms of your current location.

Fancy Walking Stick (3000 credits)

With this fancy walking stick you may WALKTO denizens on the same continent!

Extravagant Walking Portal (100000 credits)

With this super duper fantastic walking portal you can instantly travel to any denizen on any plane of existence instantly!

Thaisen

Shirszae said:

As others have pointed, this will just lead to someone making  a database of denizens for people to walk to client side. If you really actually wanted people to all have the same tools, you'd leave walk to as it is instead of making it so that only people who can code/implement a dB script can have it.

100% this...I've just spent the last few hours coding up a replacement and now I have a dB script that tracks all denizens including wanders, (every room I've seen them in including when and how frequently so I can prioritize when trying to walk to them.)

Not perfect obviously since I can't know if they are alive or exactly where they are, but a mile ahead of where the majority of nexus users are now...

This is a huge step backwards IMO...excited to see serverside curing get axed next...

Adrik

Could honestly probably just make a script with that fancy DB tool for walkto (denizen) that also accounts for how far they usually move. Unfortunately, this doesn't work for certain supermobs that can wander around and wtfpwn people, but. Iunno.

Personally, if WALKTO has to be gutted, I'd like it to remain enabled for city mobs (for citizens only, if need be). Honours/"Fuck you for walking into me" mobs, and Reagent mobs.

Three distinctions that will already be vastly better than what is currently underway.

Also, going out of your way to say "We want everyone to have the same tools available to them!" is literally garbage. The only times when knowing where a denizen is located is even remotely useful?

Events. And Foozle.

You guys already had the ability to turn them off for denizens as a whole (Telaan has had her WALKTO location off for like. an IRL month)... and.. Foozle just disables WALKTO in general.

So, what we're essentially set up with is "Because you don't know where this denizen is, you don't get to know until you learn to walk there."  And I'mma be real honest with you. That's more of a slap in the face to everyone involved.

is WALK TO > AGREE the problem? Easy, let DENIZENS be farseeable with something like... DFARSEE <denizen>. Shows what area they are in, and then if you are in their area, lets you see what specific room.

You can toggle it off and on for a denizen, so when making an event.

Tahquil

I dunno man, knowing where a denizen is located is really fucking useful now you can't WALKTO them. So not just foozles and events.

Rino

Hi. 

@Mizik, I have accepted that I am unable to prevent you from pickpocketing me, but I do appreciate the fact that you still answer my question after taking the coins. I'll just assume as fees for your replies. 

about walkto function, I use "alt + JUIOPL><M?P" for my directions. Previously, even with walkto function, i realise my finger aches after typing all sort of instructions to command Rino, and so are some manual navigation.  Yes, i always dream of playing achaea with joystick, unfortunately i don't own one; and i doubt the anime series of Sword Art Online's  nerve gear exist yet.

As of now, even without WALKTO, I am satisfied that I can still able to cap my renown via seafaring, foray and assisted combat. Should a artifact stick/cane is made for walkto function, you bet i'll buy with the bound credits obtained through daily adventure, and it's funny to see Rino having a walking cane just like I'm using a white cane irl.  

Summing up, Yes, I wish that walkto function can be reversed. However, I also understand that Achaea has its right to make any policy changes, that might benefits or disadvantage players.

This should be my final post on this topic. Whatever the outcome of this petition is definitely beyond my control, for i can only control the actions, movements and choices of Rino and my own. After all, prolong discontent is unhealthy for you, me and everyone. 


Cheers everyone.  let's force-learn the new way. XDD

Smashy

This that shit I don't like
*signs petition*

Caelan

Rino said:

about walkto function, I use "alt + JUIOPL><M?P" for my directions.

Well... at least I figured out the problem...

Honestly, I appreciate your levelheaded attitude as everyone is/was raving - and using you as the center of their argument.

Boosteya

I do not care if the buffalo and other reagent-providing npcs can be walked to or not. I knew where some were likely to be before walking to them was possible. I'm lazy and don't do so as often as I can.

I do find it inconvenient that service denizens such as Mydoin in New Thera, aren't able to be walked to. I'm on the fence about unique-wares vendors, such as the nearby-to-Mydoin Nissa, with her glasses.

There's no Achaea rule against helping those who need it, navigate a little. Some might do it for pay, others might do it for recognition by city and/or House, some might do it because it clearly needs doing, and nobody else is doing it.

Alinoe

As a pretty recently returned player who finds the sheer amount of new stuff kinda overwhelming, this change took a lot of fun out of it for me. I don't care about renown or reagent mobs, that's fine if you don't wanna give players a heads up, but stuff like ferrymen not being able to be walkedto anymore has really taken away from my enjoyment.

Archaeon

Burden under the yoke of inconvenience you plebs. Watch as us glorious coders continue to walk to whoever we feel with impunity. 

Cooper

Someone needs to make a simple script and then distribute it publicly - goal is to make it easy for non-coders.

*  makes denizens clickable either on INFO HERE or on QUICKLOCK, allowing you to make a table entry for that denizen that will tie it to a room number and/or area

* a command that brings up all of your saved denizens that is clickable, bonus points if this is sorted by area and alphabetical denizen name

* 'goto x' support that utilizes your database

* publicly distribute script for free

The advanced coders already have something like this anyway, might as well make it as common as the mudlet map itself!

Edit: if you really want to do this and can do it in a timely fashion and without the expectation of having to support the script, post here or DM me. I'll throw you 250 credits if something workable can be released in a week. No, it won't really be worth your time - but you'll be doing good for the community!

Thaisen

But... they have made it clear they want us to have that advantage though 

Archaeon

I refuse, my ability to write things in nonsensical ways to make a computer do my bidding is a power, and I will lord it over the unwashed masses with great glee.  250 credits?  a paltry sum compared to the knowledge that my character on a game can walk to a buffalo, and yours cannot.

Kog

There is also no hell quite like releasing a code package of any significance for free.

Shirszae

I wish I knew enough coding to do it myself. I am willing to throw 50 cr on top of Coppers offer though. 

Colden

Same, I'll contribute. But, it's a damn shame that we even have to. Gating what should be features behind code ability is insane.

Saonji

https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/7491/who-hates-the-new-walkto/p1?new=1

Say no more, fam.

Astarod

Waiting for the script to get removed and Saonji forums banned. 

If only there was something that nexus users could do with the same results. 

Saonji

Astarod said:

Waiting for the script to get removed and Saonji forums banned. 

If only there was something that nexus users could do with the same results. 

Should be easy enough, with Zahan's nexus mapper. Although you can apparently use room ids with Nexus' walkto, so yeah it'll still work in much the same way.

I absolutely refuse to touch Javascript, so I'm not doing it. But it can definitely be done following the same sort of logic.

Marcella

I could wax at some length (as I do enjoy doing) about how walkto has been a major headache for us over the years, and how the latest instance was just the straw that finally got us to talking about it. I don't think an itemised list of the various situations where walkto has been an issue for the game is really conducive to what we are trying to convey here though, so I will talk about something completely different. Bear with me.

Actually @Makarios I think everyone who is upset about this decision is actually dying to know what are all the monumeeeental efforts that you have to make to maintain this feature, seriously. Even if there are issues I mean it should be REALLY REALLY harder than than adding new classes with completely new mechanics and afflictions, professions, areas with obnoxious syntaxes all over and features that no one have ever seen before in Achaea that definitely should have been hard for you guys to implement, why upkeeping a massive quality of life feature that so many users love and as a plus provides accessibility is a bigger headache than those things? There wasn't a word about the administration on any of this for all the years it has been available and you guys decided to toss a massively useful feature in what? Just one single conversation? Are you serious? That really shows how much of "commitment" you have to the players, instead of thoroughly talking it about and think of solutions, you just strip it away without as second thought.

I mean yeah, in a character's perspective it is really impossible for the character to know every denizen in the area. But also in a character's perspective it is really impossible to actually make anything happen with illusions and emotes, but that is still how everyone RPs things out since... forever. There's something called 'suspension of disbelief', and that is a good thing to have, specially for useful features like WALKTO.

Now, you can completely remove certain denizens like renown denizens for example or mark event denizens as 'unwalkable' as you guys can already completely do on other events, there is no need whatsoever to gut this down like you guys did.

But alas, people will keep giving you $$$ no matter what so why care right?

Kaios

Marcella said:

But alas, people will keep giving you $$$ no matter what so why care right?

Exactly, he doesn't. Which is why he gave a half assed response and then went immediately back to working on and responding to questions/comments from people who get all excited about a new class and garbage promotions.

Sobriquet

What do you expect when IRE is a business like any other? I would in no way suggest the team don't care about their players, because I know first hand that they do, and certainly with Mak, Nicola and Itchy you can see the passion in which they DO care, but when a totally unneeded class is released and the spending goes through the roof (Shecks said he alone spent $400 in one sitting for it, due to mutliclass) so can see where the development lies. WALK TO change might upset people, but it's never going to be enough to drive people away and they know that. This should be totally expected

The promotions aren't garbage, they are actually pretty good depending which you decide to spend money on. Seeing what Amranu and the guys earnt during the Stocking promo was insane

Archaeon

Yeah I don't think anyone is being fair whatsoever. You guys are just talking out your hurt feelings. Should really chill the fuck out before you decide to post a bunch of text diarrhoea. 

Peak

Marcella said:

I could wax at some length (as I do enjoy doing) about how walkto has been a major headache for us over the years, and how the latest instance was just the straw that finally got us to talking about it. I don't think an itemised list of the various situations where walkto has been an issue for the game is really conducive to what we are trying to convey here though, so I will talk about something completely different. Bear with me.

Actually @Makarios I think everyone who is upset about this decision is actually dying to know what are all the monumeeeental efforts that you have to make to maintain this feature, seriously. Even if there are issues I mean it should be REALLY REALLY harder than than adding new classes with completely new mechanics and afflictions, professions, areas with obnoxious syntaxes all over and features that no one have ever seen before in Achaea that definitely should have been hard for you guys to implement, why upkeeping a massive quality of life feature that so many users love and as a plus provides accessibility is a bigger headache than those things? There wasn't a word about the administration on any of this for all the years it has been available and you guys decided to toss a massively useful feature in what? Just one single conversation? Are you serious? That really shows how much of "commitment" you have to the players, instead of thoroughly talking it about and think of solutions, you just strip it away without as second thought.

I mean yeah, in a character's perspective it is really impossible for the character to know every denizen in the area. But also in a character's perspective it is really impossible to actually make anything happen with illusions and emotes, but that is still how everyone RPs things out since... forever. There's something called 'suspension of disbelief', and that is a good thing to have, specially for useful features like WALKTO.

Now, you can completely remove certain denizens like renown denizens for example or mark event denizens as 'unwalkable' as you guys can already completely do on other events, there is no need whatsoever to gut this down like you guys did.

But alas, people will keep giving you $$$ no matter what so why care right?

You are a bad person. These people don't exist to please you. If it's a big enough deal to turn you into this big of a poisonous bitch, go play a different game. 

Sobriquet

I get that people are annoyed at this, but the overall response has been blown so much out of proportion I'm expecting Monica Lewinski to show up with a new dress. 

Archaeon

Define 'is'

Stefana

@Peak everything in your post was more hateful and less constructive than everything in Marcella’s. She is criticizing the decisions of the developers of a game. You are just calling her names.

Veldrin

Cooper said:

Someone needs to make a simple script and then distribute it publicly - goal is to make it easy for non-coders.

*  makes denizens clickable either on INFO HERE or on QUICKLOCK, allowing you to make a table entry for that denizen that will tie it to a room number and/or area

* a command that brings up all of your saved denizens that is clickable, bonus points if this is sorted by area and alphabetical denizen name

* 'goto x' support that utilizes your database

* publicly distribute script for free

The advanced coders already have something like this anyway, might as well make it as common as the mudlet map itself!

Edit: if you really want to do this and can do it in a timely fashion and without the expectation of having to support the script, post here or DM me. I'll throw you 250 credits if something workable can be released in a week. No, it won't really be worth your time - but you'll be doing good for the community!

disclaimer. I just stripped my own down to the bones and haven't really tested it after

It requires gmcp, mudlet mapper and is for mudlet

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7j434f09qu14kl/DenizenSystem.xml?dl=0

it should give you two tables
DenizenRoom
Room

the DenizenRoom one is the core of the search system, the room one is just current room inventory (ie what's on IH)

then there's some aliases
drs 'search term'
ie drs death knight will make it show all death knights in the system (if you've ventured through and found em!)
drsave
saves the table
drload
loads the saved table
drfixit
this one is for some reason there's something you want to remove from the table, you'll have to manually edit this
dri 'uniqueID'
shows you the info you've saved about a specific denizen


That's it, just walk around and it should automatically add anything with an 'm' or 'mx' attribute to it. Those two attributes are mobiles or pets in gmcp

It should give you an output like this

with 123 in in the 'room' being clickable and triggers mudlet's goto function

Astarod

So, as most of you know, there was a poll available at https://forums.achaea.com/discussion/7482/walkto-thread#latest. 

The purpose of this poll was to have some solid opinion sharing and a few categories to allow for players to select which option they believed was the best course of action, to help the administration see where the playerbase stood on this change. Whether or not that is relevant to their decision making on QoL endeavors, will remain to be seen. 

I posted a chart showing the vote below.





I weighted everyone's vote equally. There is a split on how the playerbase (represented by this chart) would like to be re-introduced into the system, but approximately 88% of the playerbase that voted would like some form of walk to so that we don't have to require on individual coders to provide free DLC to make the game more playable and fun. 

The counts are as follows: 

39 players for the full reversal of what still appears to be a knee jerk reaction (respectfully). 

37 players for a partial reversal, such as the alterations of features or messages so that people can still use the command, but that still want there to be some admin sanctioned/coded counterpart to goto, and other functions that the mudlet community have provided for the playerbase. 

10 players are for the continued deletion of this function for what appears to be immersion related reasons. 


As I said before, I would appreciate it if people didn't insult the admins or players themselves, or even their arguments. There's a clear majority, and what I feel is reasonable doubt in the intentions/solution that the administration decided, which continues to be a source of discussion for how much it affected the playerbase. I don't think the criticizing of administrator decisions is a direct insult to them. They are human, and can make mistakes, and as players who fund the development of Achaea and have continued access to the forums, it is clear that they 1.) allow users to complain/suggest solutions via forums, 2.) have corrected some errors via forum post submission. 

Whether the Admin would continue to partake in that discussion is up to them, but I would rather this discussion stay in NONT instead of the sewers, so lets work on keeping this less of a mudslinging contest and more of a point by point debate/solution center (as Pyori and Veldrin posted coded solutions for free [for most of the playerbase- thanks cooper]).