Forays: A Review.

Kog

Having thought on it some, I think that forays are a great model of all the things that frustrate people. For example, the Foreman was doing some insane amount of damage, forcing people to yankbash- that turned out to be the result of a bug. Forays increasing in damage across the board in the last few days at least SEEMS more intentional- even if I disagree with it- but there was no announcement or comment made anywhere.

When Psion lost both afflictions through clumsiness, my first bug was dismissed due to us talking past one another- they thought I was talking about messages not displaying, when I was trying to just note that as an ADDITIONAL weird thing that I thought I had found. Had I not come to the forums and done more investigation, it would have likely gone unnoticed for a lot longer than it did.

I don't believe there was a post made in game when it was fixed, or anything to indicate it changed- meaning, unless people read the forums and/or got a message from me, nobody has any clue how it's 'supposed' to work. And in a game that focuses very much on 'figure it out yourself', these sort of situations where something does not work as it's supposed to, or isn't as it should be, make it many times more difficult to 'figure it out'. Solving a puzzle is about knowing the rules, but the rules may change with no notice.

I would like to highly suggest changelogs be made somewhere (preferably in-game so the whole population can view) *when* they go in. If that means things like bugfixes come out in waves, fine. If that means that there's a new newspost every 30 minutes while you guys are hard at work, also fine by me.

It's unpleasant to try to solve something, successfully solve it, start to refine your methodology and really get 'good' at it only to have all the rules changed and the table completely flipped over. I was able to complete Fortress 2s about 90% of the time, and after these changes I am no longer able to complete it at all with the resources I have access to. The numbers don't work, not to do it 'correctly'. And because of that, I'm no longer engaging with the content- why throw experience away when I know I can't beat it? - meaning I won't *notice* if something changes, unless somebody else notices and tells me, and most people aren't going to notice because they're also not engaging with the content, due to the aforementioned difficulty change.

Santar

I can currently still do fortress, so I'll let you know when it gets buffed again to fix the fact that I can still do it. 

Silas

Yeah, the documentation in Achaea has become atrocious in the last few years. I don't know if it was always like this and I was just so immersed that I didn't notice, but since coming back it's been endlessly frustrating to find out what half of the new things are, what they do, how they're supposed to act, etc.

A changelog would help this, but the game would also benefit massively from someone spending a week or a month or however long is necessary going through all of the last x additions and making sure they're CLEARLY documented in HELP files and not just filed away in some news post somewhere.

Iaxus

HELP PROMOITEMS is a big issue currently. It was useful when there were only a handful of promo items. Now it's a disgusting mess.

Silas

HELP [DISCONTINUED] SHOP OF WONDERS and HELP LEGEND DECK are both incredibly unwieldy. Would be nice to just be able to do HELP MATIC/whatever or HELP STARDUST FLASK/etc. Same with all the artie HELPs, really.

At least those things are all actually documented, though. Learning about the new shrines/essence/crusades/etc. has been a nightmare. People coming back in smaller orders would have next to no chance.

Santar

ARTSEARCH FLASK

LDECK SEARCH MATIC

Silas

The fact that's a thing and I had no idea illustrates the problem perfectly.

Big Papa Jomi

ARTSEARCH, sure, but if you do LEGENDDECK, it’ll show up in the syntaxes.

There could definitely be better documentation, but it wasn’t exactly hidden. 

Just sayin. 

Thaisen

Yes....much hidden....very secret....

Adrik

https://ada-young.com/pastebin/U4WE90KY

A good ol rousing game of "Fuck you, fight me with only 15 minutes left on the clock because the trash leading up to me has fucktupled HP and a WSC only does 60% to a bat's HP".

I'd like to not walk into room and get chunked for 50% of my health in one hit, tbh. Even with a 4 person team, that's inane. There's no fighting in any of my lesser forms that'd help.

Also does he still steal items? If he does, Barrows is literally just never going to be done.  No one feels like getting items stolen and having to deal with a supermob.

Phaestus

We've gone ahead and scaled back the AoE damage for mobs that attack more quickly (and the damage on that particular AoE a bit further). And Vulkuz doesn't steal items anymore, no.

Adrik

Phaestus said:

We've gone ahead and scaled back the AoE damage for mobs that attack more quickly (and the damage on that particular AoE a bit further). And Vulkuz doesn't steal items anymore, no.

Wooooooooo.

Okay. Vulkuz is still swinging.. real-hard. But maybe we're just missing something outside of the obvious. Will try a bit more whenever I get interested in dying more.

Veldrin

That was with algiz and blessings and I got level 3 defensive and offensive arties for hunting. With Aim to Kill it requires a WSC to 'one shot' them (I really need trait reset cause that one is such a waste). I can take one, maybe two if I'm lucky with crits. But they roam too much, stun, block movement, yank down flyers and the mages ignore prismatic barrier with at least their ice attack

Phaestus

The ogres were missed in one part of our overhaul and will wander significantly more slowly now, so groups should be easier managed. Otherwise, everything above looks correct, yes. 

Veldrin

I dread for the people that haven't spent 8700+ credits on arties and aren't dragons if that's the case. Cause I for sure can't tank more than 2 ogres

Meriet

Go with less people! I've heard reports of the ogres being much much easier if you go in a pair. Kog completed a run earlier this month doing that.

Veldrin

I went with Yen, we used to be able to do it no problem. This time we ran out of time before we had even killed all 30 magi/brutes because we died that much

And we're both people that's spent 8700+ on arties not to mention talismans and cards, we really shouldn't be finding it overly difficult as long as we're just a tiny bit careful.

Phaestus

Veldrin said:

I dread for the people that haven't spent 8700+ credits on arties and aren't dragons if that's the case. Cause I for sure can't tank more than 2 ogres

It's almost like the foray scales!

Armali

He, unfortunately, could not go in with less.

Veldrin

Phaestus said:

Veldrin said:

I dread for the people that haven't spent 8700+ credits on arties and aren't dragons if that's the case. Cause I for sure can't tank more than 2 ogres

It's almost like the foray scales!

If it scales to the point that my several thousand dollar character with hunting related artefacts/talismans can't even tank two of the bloody mages without having to run on the lowest difficulty setting with just two persons, then what the hell is the point of all my money spent? I should not be finding it this hard, especially not with another person who's spent at least the same as me on hunting related artefacts.

Astarod

Can you check the AoE on Borgron and the Mages @Phaestus? It feels like I got 70% damage at one point from Borgron, then Insta'd. 

Could you tune this down? I thought this wasn't a buff. 

Astarod

Here's a snippet, @Phaestus, because I don't feel like AoE is being fair in this.

03:01:54 (Party): Achilles says, "88%." (100% health of my character)

03:01:56 Sparkles of psi energy cease their distracting dance around Borgron, captain of the fortress's vision.

03:01:59 Borgron, captain of the fortress bellows an incantation and fire sprouts from his palms.

03:01:59 Agony erupts all over your body as your flesh begins to melt away.

03:01:59 You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your torso.

03:01:59 The raging fire about your skin goes out.

03:01:59 You take a drink from an oaken vial.

03:01:59 The elixir heals and soothes you.

03:01:59 You remove 1 potash, bringing the total in the rift to 2091.

03:01:59 You eat a potash crystal.

03:01:59 You feel your health and mana replenished.

03:01:59 Achilles takes some salve from a vial and rubs it on his torso.

03:01:59 Achilles takes a drink from a garnet vial.

03:01:59 Achilles eats some irid moss.

03:02:00 You may apply another salve to yourself.

03:02:03 Borgron, captain of the fortress says, "You will scream before the end, Astarod."

03:02:03 Borgron, captain of the fortress bellows an incantation and fire sprouts from his palms.

03:02:03 Agony erupts all over your body as your flesh begins to melt away.

03:02:03 Achilles has been slain by Borgron, captain of the fortress.

03:02:03 You have been slain by Borgron, captain of the fortress.

03:02:03 Your starburst tattoo flares as the world is momentarily tinted red.

03:02:03 A coruscating stream of sanguine light emanates from a bone ring with a fire rune, surrounding Achilles with a scintillating aura.

03:02:03 You take a drink from an oaken vial.

03:02:03 You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your torso.

03:02:03 The raging fire about your skin goes out.

03:02:03 You clench your fists, grit your teeth, and banish all possibility of sleep.

03:02:03 Achilles takes a drink from an onyx vial.

03:02:03 You take a drink from an oaken vial.

03:02:03 You feel a momentary dizziness as your resistance to damage by poison increases.

03:02:03 A frigid stream of cerulean light emanates from a bone ring with an ice rune, surrounding Achilles with a frosty aura.

03:02:03 You remove 1 dolomite, bringing the total in the rift to 2453.

03:02:03 You eat a dolomite grain.

03:02:03 You now possess the gift of the third eye.

03:02:03 A crackling stream of argentine light emanates from a bone ring with a lightning rune, surrounding Achilles with a flickering aura.

03:02:03 (Party): You say, "Achilles Bursted!"

03:02:04 You remove 1 quartz, bringing the total in the rift to 2429.

03:02:04 You eat a quartz grain.

03:02:04 An instant feeling of excitement and edginess overcomes you.

03:02:05 You may apply another salve to yourself.

03:02:05 Achilles takes some salve from a vial and rubs it on his skin.

03:02:05 You remove 1 quicksilver, bringing the total in the rift to 2441.

03:02:05 You apply a quicksilver droplet to yourself.

03:02:05 You may drink another health or mana elixir.

03:02:05 [System]: Prepended + to your eqbal queue.

03:02:05 A swirling stream of heliotrope light emanates from a silver ring of meditation, surrounding Achilles with a shimmering aura.

03:02:05 You take a drink from an oaken vial.

03:02:05 Your body begins to feel lighter and you feel that you are floating slightly.

03:02:05 Achilles rips into Borgron, captain of the fortress with his massive, deadly claws.

03:02:05 Your vision sharpens with light as you gain night sight.

03:02:05 Achilles eats a hawthorn berry.

03:02:05 You remove 1 arsenic, bringing the total in the rift to 2418.

03:02:05 You eat an arsenic pellet.

03:02:05 Your eyes dim as you lose your sight.

03:02:05 A coruscating stream of sanguine light emanates from sunless hope, surrounding you with a scintillating aura.

03:02:05 A frigid stream of cerulean light emanates from sunless hope, surrounding you with a frosty aura.

03:02:05 A swirling stream of heliotrope light emanates from sunless hope, surrounding you with a shimmering aura.

03:02:05 Tiny tremours spread through your body as the world seems to slow down.

03:02:05 Borgron, captain of the fortress sinks his blades into your flesh, opening wounds that instantly fester with poison.

03:02:05 You are confused as to the effects of the venom.

03:02:05 You are confused as to the effects of the venom.

03:02:06 A crackling stream of argentine light emanates from sunless hope, surrounding you with a flickering aura.

03:02:06 [Clotted SEVEN TIMES]

03:02:06 [Clotted SEVEN TIMES]

03:02:06 You take a drink from an oaken vial.

03:02:06 The elixir heals and soothes you.

03:02:06 You take a drink from a dark vial of acacia wood and blossoms.

03:02:06 A chill runs over your icy skin.

03:02:06 You may eat another plant or mineral.

03:02:06 You remove 1 arsenic, bringing the total in the rift to 2417.

03:02:06 You eat an arsenic pellet.

03:02:06 Your eyes dim as you lose your sight.

03:02:06 You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your skin.

03:02:06 A feeling of comfortable warmth spreads over you.

03:02:06 Your lightning summoning is complete.

03:02:07 Achilles touches a cloak tattoo.

03:02:07 You may apply another salve to yourself.

03:02:07 You may eat another plant or mineral.

03:02:07 You remove 1 calamine, bringing the total in the rift to 2468.

03:02:07 You eat a calamine crystal.

03:02:07 With a low rumbling from deep within his belly, Achilles utters a guttural chant. His skin ripples as a web of crackling magical energy dances like fire across its surface, settling to solidify into a flexible, translucent shell.

03:02:08 You have recovered balance on all limbs.

03:02:08 [System]: Running queued eqbal command: DIAGNOSE

03:02:08 You are:

03:02:08 afflicted by horrible asthma.

03:02:08 blind.

03:02:08 bleeding for 19 health.

03:02:08 [System]: Running queued eqbal command: DIAGNOSE

03:02:08 You touch the tree of life tattoo.

03:02:08 Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured.

03:02:09 Borgron, captain of the fortress bellows an incantation and fire sprouts from his palms.

03:02:09 Agony erupts all over your body as your flesh begins to melt away.

03:02:09 You have been slain by Borgron, captain of the fortress.

03:02:09 Achilles takes some salve from a vial and rubs it on his torso.

03:02:09 Achilles takes a drink from a garnet vial.

03:02:09 Achilles eats some irid moss.

That is a little less than 30 seconds. I wasn't even the primary target when I died. ( I was at 100% when Achilles said that PT)


@Kog what was your Borgron doing, Damage-wise with the AoE flame attack?

Aegoth

Yea, getting creamed hard by trash mobs, PRC only doing 70% to trash mobs while they're pumping out 30%/second... this isn't "looking pretty solid". I love our admin, and all the hard work they do.. I just wish they would consider erring on the side of "easier". It's far more simple to scale mobs up in difficulty after testing, than it is to tune them down... as evidenced by the rampant slaughterfest still ongoing

Veldrin

With scaling a group of unartied level 70's should find it as challenging as a group of unartied level 99+'s does it. Then artefacts should lower the difficulty further because that's what we paid for

Astarod

For everyone wondering about dragonquest. The Admin found the Foreman guilty of bug abuse, so they truedisfavoured him (which caused him to be very easy for us to kill). However, after he was unrepentant, he was shrubbed. 


That's where the dragonquest foray went. Change my mind.

Saonji

I guess the, "Making challenging mobs that aren't simply ones that do a lot of damage." promise doesn't extend to forays, and is solely for event mobs (which even then the promise wasn't really kept lol).

Crixos

The sky above grows dark as a harrowing thrall of Aegoth calls upon powerful magics. Raising his hands

balefully, he causes lightning bolts, the hammer of the storm, to shoot from his hands and slam into you.

Jomi has been slain by a harrowing thrall of Aegoth.

11081h/100%h 99%m 75e 83w xe M [Thrall].

Nbige has been slain by a harrowing thrall of Aegoth.

534h/4%h 99%m 75e 83w xe M [Thrall] (-10547h, 95.2%).


Icosse trash was a lot more manageable than Margam trash, challenging but manageable.  I think it was pretty well balanced (with 4 dragons, 1 non-dragon). Aside from the no windup one-shots by the Thrall (think something's wrong here).

Crixos

Aegoth said:

Yea, getting creamed hard by trash mobs, PRC only doing 70% to trash mobs while they're pumping out 30%/second... this isn't "looking pretty solid". I love our admin, and all the hard work they do.. I just wish they would consider erring on the side of "easier". It's far more simple to scale mobs up in difficulty after testing, than it is to tune them down... as evidenced by the rampant slaughterfest still ongoing

Hmm, not sure if I agree here. When you design things gaming-wise, there's usually less complaints when an encounter is made easier as opposed to when an easy encounter is buffed to extreme difficulty as evidenced by parts of this thread.


What I don't like is having to live test these changes and receive no feedback or even notice (unless you're in the ACC, know someone that is or want to slog through difficult instances again just to find XYZ).

Public changelogs for mechanic/PVE tuning or other changes that aren't classleads would be amazing and add transparency.

Armali

That thrall hit is amazing. Is it full AoE, or is it psuedo stormhammer and actually only hits three people?

Antonius

Silas said:

The fact that's a thing and I had no idea illustrates the problem perfectly.

Those functions weren't added without telling anybody, they were posted about on the Announce board. If you don't know they exist, it's because you didn't read those posts or you forgot the commands existed after reading about them. Neither of those is a change documentation issue. A more detailed change log would be useful for people actively playing at that time, but for most returning players it's just going to mean even more information that they'll decide not to read through.

In terms of regular documentation, how exactly would you want them to make you aware of these things outside of putting them in the relevant HELP files?