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How fun the Reckoning is as an event

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  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    edited April 2020
    Iocun said:
    Achilles said:
    I didn't even tag the names of both people who screwed up.  I understand they make mistakes and feel bad OOCly for wasting a bunch of people's time.  But we (Targs) saw this coming, we were like I wonder how they will screw it up this time.  We aren't allowed to hold Cyrene's hands for this event even though it would clearly benefit us ICly and OOCly to just tell you all what to do.
    How, exactly, would it benefit you OOC? As far as I can tell, there's no OOC benefit to you if Pryla'ari wins over anyone else. Bragging rights?

    Considering you're calling it "wasting a bunch of people's time", apparently you think that your OOC time is wasted if an IC goal fails, so it seems there's some issue with IC/OOC separation anyways. 
    Well I would never claim Achaea in general is a great use of time (at best it's a medium of escapism during these unusual times).  But mostly we should have 2 more facets in the bag, people didnt need to hunt old Thera for x hours.  It's one thing if we failed, but we succeeded at 99% of it and failed at the easiest part.  Anyways the Reckoning has been a shit show since the first reckoning which was a entire month and it all came down to the last 30 minutes, getting a repeat of that again this time 5 years later, you would think they would learn how to structure this thing better.
    image
  • KeorinKeorin
    Technically we should have four more facets in the bag. Targossas lost the first one to Hashan, and us combined lost the second to Mhaldor (though there it was just them having someone standing on us to pick it up, rather than getting ganked like the others). But yeah, I do get it, it's frustrating. Especially if a bug/bad skill implementation lets a typo have serious results.
  • IocunIocun
    Sure, there may be some problems, but in the end it's still an event meant to be fun with nothing really at stake from an OOC perspective, so I think we need to remind ourselves that it's just a game from time to time. If I don't feel like Reckoning-hunting, I simply don't. If I don't feel like joining a commander-attack group, I don't.

    I realize that for some cities and some forms of character RP, it may feel like you have to constantly take part in it to remain credible, but that's not really the game's fault. If the game starts to annoy you, do yourself a favour and log out for a bit and watch a movie or something.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • SothantosSothantos
    Yeah, no.

    As a leader, you don't get to opt out of these things.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Yeah you do, it's called not logging in. If devs want to make a bland, low stakes event just play other things. When I feel up to going in and raking up some PKs, I'll jump in, otherwise I got better things to dooo!
  • IocunIocun
    Even if you don't opt out entirely I'm sure you can find some way to make the event not feel like "a waste of time". Don't allow a few game mechanics to ruin your RL day.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • KeorinKeorin
    edited April 2020
    Speaking personally, the trouble is that my city's participation in this event largely hinges on having me around to organise and lead. And while I might be slowly having my enjoyment for this game writ large being beat out of me by this event, I know that there are people who -do- want to participate.

    And more broadly, Cyrene's participation in event like this does have effects on the future, because having a city sit out a world event is a pretty big knock to morale and momentum. So both my team's enjoyment of this event and my goals overall depend on my not sitting out.

    I don't know, maybe this is a stupid way of looking at it. But broadly speaking, leaders find themselves in the role of having to look out for the enjoyment of others more than just focusing on their personal experience. It's a gamemaster role, in many senses, and that can make things that otherwise would be totally optional seem much less so.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Keorin said:
    Speaking personally, the trouble is that my city's participation in this event largely hinges on having me around to organise and lead. And while I might be slowly having my enjoyment for this game writ large being beat out of me by this event, I know that there are people who -do- want to participate.

    And more broadly, Cyrene's participation in event like this does have effects on the future, because having a city sit out a world event is a pretty big knock to morale and momentum. So both my team's enjoyment of this event and my goals overall depend on my not sitting out.

    I don't know, maybe this is a stupid way of looking at it. But broadly speaking, leaders find themselves in the role of having to look out for the enjoyment of others more than just focusing on their personal experience. It's a gamemaster role, in many senses, and that can make things that otherwise would be totally optional seem much less so.
    A leader needs to have those underneath them, or somewhat equal, to carry that burden. If your Senators/Ministers are not doing that, why are they there?
  • KogKog
    Cooper said:
    Ygia said:
    We actually literally are not allowed to work with Cyrenians in any way whatsoever. If you're in the same place at the same time that's something different, but Aurora has made clear firmly and plainly that partying, conspiring, etc will result in being smote and disfavoured at a minimum. So we couldn't let you have a say in it even if we wanted.
    Keorin said:

    In this instance, Auria attempted to veildeliver to Vinzent
    Sentry Auria Manda (female Blue Dragon).
    She is ranked 312th in Achaea.
    She is an extremely credible character.
    She is not known for acts of infamy.
    She is a Duchess in Cyrene.
    Vinzent Obuun (male Tash'la).
    He is ranked 69th in Achaea.
    He is an extremely credible character.
    He is not known for acts of infamy.
    He is a Devout in Targossas.

    They can't call back, their phones are still in the river out of service.
  • KeorinKeorin
    I don't get to pick the Senate (they pick me, as a matter of fact, and at least one would prefer to do away with me), and it's very hard to fill ministries that you don't have candidates for, as it turns out.

    And you wanna know what -doesn't- encourage more energetic people to take part in your city government? Non-participation in events.

    To be clear, I do have some good help, but none of that has changed that I don't feel I have a ton of choice in whether or not I do this.
  • YgiaYgia
    Cooper said:
    Ygia said:
    We actually literally are not allowed to work with Cyrenians in any way whatsoever. If you're in the same place at the same time that's something different, but Aurora has made clear firmly and plainly that partying, conspiring, etc will result in being smote and disfavoured at a minimum. So we couldn't let you have a say in it even if we wanted.
    Keorin said:

    In this instance, Auria attempted to veildeliver to Vinzent
    Sentry Auria Manda (female Blue Dragon).
    She is ranked 312th in Achaea.
    She is an extremely credible character.
    She is not known for acts of infamy.
    She is a Duchess in Cyrene.
    Vinzent Obuun (male Tash'la).
    He is ranked 69th in Achaea.
    He is an extremely credible character.
    He is not known for acts of infamy.
    He is a Devout in Targossas.
    And I said above, that's sketch and I didn't know about it.
    I don't know why this is being portrayed as a "gotcha" moment. What I said is still true - Aurora told us "stop that" and killed some of us just because we were in the same party as Cyrenians, not even directly assisting. And none of us that I have seen other than Vinzent just now on the forums even are. I told Cyrenians to buzz off when they told me to purify gravehands the other day even when OOC and IC (to Ygia, not on a city level) it made sense for me to help.
    I get it. You're burnt out and things suck. But I already responded to that point. "Gotcha" moments aren't helping. They just make the people you target feel sour. Especially when they're already trying to help folk understand the position.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Time to get potential good people to run for the senate and back them to oust the useless, then. Part of Democracy is that, politically, it has the highest potential for a lot of politicking - dirty dealings, underhanded citizenry manipulation, cheating etc. Dictatorships can run more efficiently, since we basically go, "You, that spot, now" and the God can oversee it specifically, but usually ends up costing you players as disagreements lead to leaving/dormancies. 

    So time to be a puppetmaster and make those marionettes dance, instead of worrying about an event that will probably not affect anyone after the second day it ends.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    I really don't see why the Mhaldorians continue to try and be so obtuse when it has been stated that basically we just can't plan together. We can react to each other, however. 

     It's funny because you all gladly accepted the help you decry in others. Would be easier to take all your arguments seriously if you had gone WE DON'T NEED YOUR FILTHY HELP and returned the facet. But that would require you all to not be arguing from self convenience, same as everyone else

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • MinifieMinifie
    Shirszae said:
    I really don't see why the Mhaldorians continue to try and be so obtuse when it has been stated that basically we just can't plan together. We can react to each other, however. 

     It's funny because you all gladly accepted the help you decry in others. Would be easier to take all your arguments seriously if you had gone WE DON'T NEED YOUR FILTHY HELP and returned the facet. But that would require you all to not be arguing from self convenience, same as everyone else

    We actually literally are not allowed to work with Cyrenians in any way whatsoever.

  • YgiaYgia
    Reacting being being in the same room and seeing someone dying and being like "oh that means its time to get out", not "Hey Cyrenian, they're about to use an instakill" "Thanks Targossians!" or whatever.

    Please, please shut up.
  • CooperCooper
    Ygia said:
    Cooper said:
    Ygia said:
    We actually literally are not allowed to work with Cyrenians in any way whatsoever. If you're in the same place at the same time that's something different, but Aurora has made clear firmly and plainly that partying, conspiring, etc will result in being smote and disfavoured at a minimum. So we couldn't let you have a say in it even if we wanted.
    Keorin said:

    In this instance, Auria attempted to veildeliver to Vinzent
    Sentry Auria Manda (female Blue Dragon).
    She is ranked 312th in Achaea.
    She is an extremely credible character.
    She is not known for acts of infamy.
    She is a Duchess in Cyrene.
    Vinzent Obuun (male Tash'la).
    He is ranked 69th in Achaea.
    He is an extremely credible character.
    He is not known for acts of infamy.
    He is a Devout in Targossas.
    And I said above, that's sketch and I didn't know about it.
    I don't know why this is being portrayed as a "gotcha" moment. What I said is still true - Aurora told us "stop that" and killed some of us just because we were in the same party as Cyrenians, not even directly assisting. And none of us that I have seen other than Vinzent just now on the forums even are. I told Cyrenians to buzz off when they told me to purify gravehands the other day even when OOC and IC (to Ygia, not on a city level) it made sense for me to help.
    I get it. You're burnt out and things suck. But I already responded to that point. "Gotcha" moments aren't helping. They just make the people you target feel sour. Especially when they're already trying to help folk understand the position.
    I'm not arguing that what Aurora said isn't true, it's pretty clear that happened.

    Some people are just ignoring the direction given ICly, and I'm calling them out. If they don't want called out for doing something dumb, they are free to not do that dumb thing in the first place.

    I'm definitely not burned out, I would love to be logged in 10 hours a day right now I just can't do it right now. That's why I play the forums.

  • YgiaYgia
    Then target those people, and not me by quoting me and insinuating I'm bullshitting or whatever.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Ygia said:
    Cooper said:
    Ygia said:
    We actually literally are not allowed to work with Cyrenians in any way whatsoever. If you're in the same place at the same time that's something different, but Aurora has made clear firmly and plainly that partying, conspiring, etc will result in being smote and disfavoured at a minimum. So we couldn't let you have a say in it even if we wanted.
    Keorin said:

    In this instance, Auria attempted to veildeliver to Vinzent
    Sentry Auria Manda (female Blue Dragon).
    She is ranked 312th in Achaea.
    She is an extremely credible character.
    She is not known for acts of infamy.
    She is a Duchess in Cyrene.
    Vinzent Obuun (male Tash'la).
    He is ranked 69th in Achaea.
    He is an extremely credible character.
    He is not known for acts of infamy.
    He is a Devout in Targossas.
    And I said above, that's sketch and I didn't know about it.
    I don't know why this is being portrayed as a "gotcha" moment. What I said is still true - Aurora told us "stop that" and killed some of us just because we were in the same party as Cyrenians, not even directly assisting. And none of us that I have seen other than Vinzent just now on the forums even are. I told Cyrenians to buzz off when they told me to purify gravehands the other day even when OOC and IC (to Ygia, not on a city level) it made sense for me to help.
    I get it. You're burnt out and things suck. But I already responded to that point. "Gotcha" moments aren't helping. They just make the people you target feel sour. Especially when they're already trying to help folk understand the position.
    Ah shit you feel sour? Damn, that must suck, sorry, I didn't realise just how imperative to your gameplay everyone else was. I'll remember to convene with you about every future decision to make sure no one is upset, okay?
  • YgiaYgia
    Holy fuck. I wasn't even implying that.
  • MinifieMinifie
    Ygia said:
    Holy fuck. I wasn't even implying that.
    Please, please shut up.


  • KeorinKeorin
    I find it funny how often people give advice that I should be doing more with politics, as if I somehow wouldn't have any idea how it works.

    But that's a bit beside the point. None of this changes the fact that events like these fall hardest on the people who have to lead during them, especially when they're dropped right in the leadup to other big events. It makes what might otherwise be enjoyable into a sucky slog.
  • KinilanKinilan
    God damn you bitch a lot
  • KeorinKeorin
    edited April 2020
    Gotta stay upbeat in game, so my OOC frustrations have to go somewhere! This event has had me in a perpetually bad mood with lots of windows while I'm dead to write, too. You'll notice my posting spikes up during Lacharhad fights.

    'sides, I'm not one of the ones who put a super factional candidate forward and then decided to complain nonstop about how other factions actually used strategy, so I'm not feeling too bad about it.
  • EllrynEllryn
    edited April 2020
    Going to say as a Mhaldorian that was in the fight, I had no clue how we got the facet at the time. It was just a new plan, go! And seeing what happened.  As far as I knew, we didn't have "help" at the time. Though I was more just trying not to die to the horde of people that amassed. Wasn't really time to ask how.

    Guess I'm with Achilles. Never saw the last Reckoning, but have the feeling this is just killing time with a predirected goal. Will fight when I can without entrances being camped, and bail when I just can't be bothered, and have fun against/with people that show. Then go find shit to do with people that don't find it fun.
  • VhaithVhaith
    Minifie said:
    Time to get potential good people to run for the senate and back them to oust the useless, then. Part of Democracy is that, politically, it has the highest potential for a lot of politicking - dirty dealings, underhanded citizenry manipulation, cheating etc. Dictatorships can run more efficiently, since we basically go, "You, that spot, now" and the God can oversee it specifically, but usually ends up costing you players as disagreements lead to leaving/dormancies. 

    So time to be a puppetmaster and make those marionettes dance, instead of worrying about an event that will probably not affect anyone after the second day it ends.
    This is hard to do in a City like Cyrene, where people tend to vote based upon who they like/know, as opposed to who would be better for the City as a whole. People will deny it, of course, but if it had been down to platform over history in at least 2 of the previous Elections in Cyrene, 2 people wouldn't currently be Senators.
    The same goes for Ministries. It's about who has the experience (re is older), as opposed to who is actually going to do work. That's why some people settle for helping any way they can, even if it's not their particular area of expertise.

    Cyrene would definitely benefit from a sterner political stance, but it's never going to happen.


    As to the Reckoning and the essay event, maybe Ashtan just wrote a better essay? It's kinda disrespectful of the work the people writing the essays went to, to just say 'Oh they only won cause the staff wanted them to have a chance.'

    Good job to whomever in Ashtan wrote their essay.

    We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.


  • MinifieMinifie
    edited April 2020
    Good on Ashtan for winning. Who cares if the admin only did it to make a more even race to win, Or if Ashtan’s entry was a clear winner. stop focusing on the results. I had fun discussing our entry internally, and I still back it as being worth doing just for that.
  • KeorinKeorin
    edited April 2020
    I mean, I'm not about to use that logic IC, it's entirely an OOC argument. And I'm also not trying to dismiss the work that went into Ashtan's post, or it's quality, I'm sure it was very good, and could easily have been far and away the best.

    But as someone who's done their share of competitive argumentation, any judgment between argumentitive pieces in a contest with no predefined standards is basically impossible to keep objective. Even -if- you're trying your hardest to let absolutely no outside factors colour your judgment, it's inherently a question of "which of these do I personally like best".

    And when the alternative to an Ashtan/Eleusis victory was to render the entire rest of the event meaningless (by jumping any of the other factions up so far that not even winning both remaining events would've helped), it's hard for me to believe that there wasn't some definite imperative to picking one of the factions that were behind. Even -if- the admin really wanted to be impartial (and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they didn't, for the sake of a more interesting event) they aren't exactly in an unbiased position.

    Maybe Ashtan made by far the best, giving the Admin a super easy way to go with an outcome they probably desired. Maybe in a complete vacuum, Ashtan still would've won. Nothing I've said is to say that couldn't be more than possible. I just don't think that it was realistic from the outset that any of the factions that weren't behind would've been given the win, so long as it was justifiable that they not.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    I honestly had no idea how we got the facet. I was killing Cyrenian's with Proficy when Dalran started yelling that I had the facet. I figured I'd grabbed it off one of the bodies since I missed the deliver message due to the bombs being thrown in. So I hightailed it to Mhaldor, and we hatched a scheme to fuse it. Only after did Proficy tell me what happened. 
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