How fun the Reckoning is as an event

Minifie

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Archaeon said:

Minifie said:

Of all the people to judge prof for his dickish behaviour, you should probably be the last.

Me?

Nah, vinzent in this case. You are one of the much fairer people IMO, never had an issue when it came to Archaeon and reason for pk.

You can claim I'm in the wrong all you want, but that does not make it true. The number of times I have been attacked or killed without cause by anyone, but especially those in Mhaldor, has been innumerable for a long time.

Errant cases of pk are one thing, but rezzing the dead on city guards, charging/having them charged for trespassing so they get bounties, rezzing people on outer islands to force them to heartstop if they have no way back, beckoning people whom have not engaged/even have a sanction, summon/beckoning from outside the city onto guards during shrine skirmishes, defending citymates from legitimate attacks and complaining about being jumped/contracted later. 

Be a dick all you want, but playing innocent when you know what you are is a bigger sign of one’s character than just being, you know, a dick.

Iocun

Minifie said:

The rules have been clarified: if you are in the area, you are open PK, if you aren’t, normal pk rules apply. Killing for each tick is too much, but if you drop ret and leave the area, you are open to retribution per normal RP reasoning, same if you chase and attack someone who leaves.

I've been chased/attacked out of the Darkenwood today by Mhaldorians, but I most certainly won't "seek retribution", as that would be just silly, IMHO. People still talk about "pk rules" as if we still had the concepts of the old pk ruleset, when in reality, it has been reduced to "just be reasonable" for a very long time now.

If I fight someone in the commander area and then jump over an area border, it would be unreasonable to expect them to just stop attacking me. When it becomes clear I'm truly leaving the fight though (e.g. going back to my city, going fishing, or hell, even just telling them "all right, I'm done"), they should leave me alone. The same goes for things like runes, vibes, etc. If you're being a dick and just run in, drop a retardation, then run back to your city to be a pest, that's clearly not ok and you should expect adequate retribution. If one of your room effects just lingers on after you were fighting, that's just a side-effect of combat that should be expected.

Vinzent

Minifie said:

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Archaeon said:

Minifie said:

Of all the people to judge prof for his dickish behaviour, you should probably be the last.

Me?

Nah, vinzent in this case. You are one of the much fairer people IMO, never had an issue when it came to Archaeon and reason for pk.

You can claim I'm in the wrong all you want, but that does not make it true. The number of times I have been attacked or killed without cause by anyone, but especially those in Mhaldor, has been innumerable for a long time.

Errant cases of pk are one thing, but rezzing the dead on city guards, charging/having them charged for trespassing so they get bounties, rezzing people on outer islands to force them to heartstop if they have no way back, beckoning people whom have not engaged/even have a sanction, summon/beckoning from outside the city onto guards during shrine skirmishes, defending citymates from legitimate attacks and complaining about being jumped/contracted later. 

Be a dick all you want, but playing innocent when you know what you are is a bigger sign of one’s character than just being, you know, a dick.

I do my best to avoid wrongly killing people, unlike many others. I have revived one person on guards ever, and I did not know it was against unlisted rules at the time. Trespassing is a city crime, deal with it. I'm not the one who posts bounties nor do I ask for them. I put people on outer islands because I was tired of not having a counter to soul watching, and that was changed. Out of the very few times I did this in a twenty minute span, there was always some way for the person to get away, either by asking for help or using their own means. Beckoning onto guards during a shrine skirmish is a normal, generic tactic. Everyone does this and will continue to do it. I'm sorry defending citizens is allowed. I complain about getting jumped when it's a dogpile and 95% of the people involved do not have cause, or when there is simply no cause in general, which is more often than not the case. When I beckon a group, say in a city, I target people who I have a reason to attack first. This could be for Mark, Infamous, or similar things. If whonever else got pulled doesn't do anything or leaves I don't care. I'm not obligated to attack them nor would I have a reason to be. When there is a large group of people and 95% of them have already attacked, I do not feel like an evil person for beckoning. How am I supposed to know people aren't involved anyway when they're camping on a group of people who have already attacked? There is only so much caution that can be had before it chokes out any possible action to begin with.

I do not play innocent, but you do not need to feel compelled to keep lying and incorrectly saying things are wrong when they are not.

Minifie

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Archaeon said:

Minifie said:

Of all the people to judge prof for his dickish behaviour, you should probably be the last.

Me?

Nah, vinzent in this case. You are one of the much fairer people IMO, never had an issue when it came to Archaeon and reason for pk.

You can claim I'm in the wrong all you want, but that does not make it true. The number of times I have been attacked or killed without cause by anyone, but especially those in Mhaldor, has been innumerable for a long time.

Errant cases of pk are one thing, but rezzing the dead on city guards, charging/having them charged for trespassing so they get bounties, rezzing people on outer islands to force them to heartstop if they have no way back, beckoning people whom have not engaged/even have a sanction, summon/beckoning from outside the city onto guards during shrine skirmishes, defending citymates from legitimate attacks and complaining about being jumped/contracted later. 

Be a dick all you want, but playing innocent when you know what you are is a bigger sign of one’s character than just being, you know, a dick.

I do my best to avoid wrongly killing people, unlike many others. I have revived one person on guards ever, and I did not know it was against unlisted rules at the time. Trespassing is a city crime, deal with it. I'm not the one who posts bounties nor do I ask for them. I put people on outer islands because I was tired of not having a counter to soul watching, and that was changed. Out of the very few times I did this in a twenty minute span, there was always some way for the person to get away, either by asking for help or using their own means. Beckoning onto guards during a shrine skirmish is a normal, generic tactic. Everyone does this and will continue to do it. I'm sorry defending citizens is allowed. I complain about getting jumped when it's a dogpile and 95% of the people involved do not have cause, or when there is simply no cause in general, which is more often than not the case. When I beckon a group, say in a city, I target people who I have a reason to attack first. This could be for Mark, Infamous, or similar things. If whonever else got pulled doesn't do anything or leaves I don't care. I'm not obligated to attack them nor would I have a reason to be. When there is a large group of people and 95% of them have already attacked, I do not feel like an evil person for beckoning. How am I supposed to know people aren't involved anyway when they're camping on a group of people who have already attacked? There is only so much caution that can be had before it chokes out any possible action to begin with.

I do not play innocent, but you do not need to feel compelled to keep lying and incorrectly saying things are wrong when they are not.

You have rezzed people on guards more than once, so that claim is bullshit off the bat. Trespassing is a city crime, taking a corpse into the city to rez on guards, so they die AND get a charge isn't. Defending citymates is fine, bitching about contracts/attacks afterwards isn't. Showing up to a skirmish, then running away going, "not touching can't get mad" is equally dumb. Beckoning, in and of itself is an aggressive action, beckoning a group that hasn't even engaged yet and claiming, "oh well how else was I to know", while also putting majority of cities on ignore for raiding with even odds. Why bring up cause? RP reason trumps rule lawyering, if you are loitering around a skirmish with your citymates, I sure as fuck have a reason to attack you, especially when your city mates initiated it.

Again, be a dick, but now hypocritically calling others liars when your claims are ostensibly false (Mezghar, Taryius, Atalkez, Myself, Aegoth have all been rezzed on guards), and trying to throw shade at others being dicks is just shady man. Pick a lane, be a dick and own it, or stop being a dick and act pious. Being both just makes you look like an ass.

Iocun said:

Minifie said:

The rules have been clarified: if you are in the area, you are open PK, if you aren’t, normal pk rules apply. Killing for each tick is too much, but if you drop ret and leave the area, you are open to retribution per normal RP reasoning, same if you chase and attack someone who leaves.

I've been chased/attacked out of the Darkenwood today by Mhaldorians, but I most certainly won't "seek retribution", as that would be just silly, IMHO. People still talk about "pk rules" as if we still had the concepts of the old pk ruleset, when in reality, it has been reduced to "just be reasonable" for a very long time now.

If I fight someone in the commander area and then jump over an area border, it would be unreasonable to expect them to just stop attacking me. When it becomes clear I'm truly leaving the fight though (e.g. going back to my city, going fishing, or hell, even just telling them "all right, I'm done"), they should leave me alone. The same goes for things like runes, vibes, etc. If you're being a dick and just run in, drop a retardation, then run back to your city to be a pest, that's clearly not ok and you should expect adequate retribution. If one of your room effects just lingers on after you were fighting, that's just a side-effect of combat that should be expected.

For clarity: That is how I was doing it before the rules were clarified by Mak. I agree that if you are skulking around just outside of the area after engaging then you are still a threat, but reading the rules it works like Annwyn: PK happens in there, it stays in there, but you have to be in there to do so. You can take it outside, but then normal rules apply. I doubt prof will follow up on his attacks, and honestly I have only noticed one instance of someone dropping things like ret and bailing back to a guard stack, so I haven't wanted to contract/hunt/gank etc. 

Vinzent

Minifie said:

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Vinzent said:

Minifie said:

Archaeon said:

Minifie said:

Of all the people to judge prof for his dickish behaviour, you should probably be the last.

Me?

Nah, vinzent in this case. You are one of the much fairer people IMO, never had an issue when it came to Archaeon and reason for pk.

You can claim I'm in the wrong all you want, but that does not make it true. The number of times I have been attacked or killed without cause by anyone, but especially those in Mhaldor, has been innumerable for a long time.

Errant cases of pk are one thing, but rezzing the dead on city guards, charging/having them charged for trespassing so they get bounties, rezzing people on outer islands to force them to heartstop if they have no way back, beckoning people whom have not engaged/even have a sanction, summon/beckoning from outside the city onto guards during shrine skirmishes, defending citymates from legitimate attacks and complaining about being jumped/contracted later. 

Be a dick all you want, but playing innocent when you know what you are is a bigger sign of one’s character than just being, you know, a dick.

I do my best to avoid wrongly killing people, unlike many others. I have revived one person on guards ever, and I did not know it was against unlisted rules at the time. Trespassing is a city crime, deal with it. I'm not the one who posts bounties nor do I ask for them. I put people on outer islands because I was tired of not having a counter to soul watching, and that was changed. Out of the very few times I did this in a twenty minute span, there was always some way for the person to get away, either by asking for help or using their own means. Beckoning onto guards during a shrine skirmish is a normal, generic tactic. Everyone does this and will continue to do it. I'm sorry defending citizens is allowed. I complain about getting jumped when it's a dogpile and 95% of the people involved do not have cause, or when there is simply no cause in general, which is more often than not the case. When I beckon a group, say in a city, I target people who I have a reason to attack first. This could be for Mark, Infamous, or similar things. If whonever else got pulled doesn't do anything or leaves I don't care. I'm not obligated to attack them nor would I have a reason to be. When there is a large group of people and 95% of them have already attacked, I do not feel like an evil person for beckoning. How am I supposed to know people aren't involved anyway when they're camping on a group of people who have already attacked? There is only so much caution that can be had before it chokes out any possible action to begin with.

I do not play innocent, but you do not need to feel compelled to keep lying and incorrectly saying things are wrong when they are not.

You have rezzed people on guards more than once, so that claim is bullshit off the bat. Trespassing is a city crime, taking a corpse into the city to rez on guards, so they die AND get a charge isn't. Defending citymates is fine, bitching about contracts/attacks afterwards isn't. Showing up to a skirmish, then running away going, "not touching can't get mad" is equally dumb. Beckoning, in and of itself is an aggressive action, beckoning a group that hasn't even engaged yet and claiming, "oh well how else was I to know", while also putting majority of cities on ignore for raiding with even odds. Why bring up cause? RP reason trumps rule lawyering, if you are loitering around a skirmish with your citymates, I sure as fuck have a reason to attack you, especially when your city mates initiated it.

Again, be a dick, but now hypocritically calling others liars when your claims are ostensibly false (Mezghar, Taryius, Atalkez, Myself, Aegoth have all been rezzed on guards), and trying to throw shade at others being dicks is just shady man. Pick a lane, be a dick and own it, or stop being a dick and act pious. Being both just makes you look like an ass.

Iocun said:

Minifie said:

The rules have been clarified: if you are in the area, you are open PK, if you aren’t, normal pk rules apply. Killing for each tick is too much, but if you drop ret and leave the area, you are open to retribution per normal RP reasoning, same if you chase and attack someone who leaves.

I've been chased/attacked out of the Darkenwood today by Mhaldorians, but I most certainly won't "seek retribution", as that would be just silly, IMHO. People still talk about "pk rules" as if we still had the concepts of the old pk ruleset, when in reality, it has been reduced to "just be reasonable" for a very long time now.

If I fight someone in the commander area and then jump over an area border, it would be unreasonable to expect them to just stop attacking me. When it becomes clear I'm truly leaving the fight though (e.g. going back to my city, going fishing, or hell, even just telling them "all right, I'm done"), they should leave me alone. The same goes for things like runes, vibes, etc. If you're being a dick and just run in, drop a retardation, then run back to your city to be a pest, that's clearly not ok and you should expect adequate retribution. If one of your room effects just lingers on after you were fighting, that's just a side-effect of combat that should be expected.

For clarity: That is how I was doing it before the rules were clarified by Mak. I agree that if you are skulking around just outside of the area after engaging then you are still a threat, but reading the rules it works like Annwyn: PK happens in there, it stays in there, but you have to be in there to do so. You can take it outside, but then normal rules apply. I doubt prof will follow up on his attacks, and honestly I have only noticed one instance of someone dropping things like ret and bailing back to a guard stack, so I haven't wanted to contract/hunt/gank etc. 

You are simply incorrect in saying that I have revived people on guards more than once, and I will continue to say you are lying. It is impossible for me to have charged someone the reason you are stating with that in mind. The only person I revived on guards was @Taryius in Eleusis, although I willI add a caveat and say I might've revived @Atalkez during that situation as well, but I do not recall. Like I said I complain about unjust contracts and jumping. I also hire if that happens, but I always make sure there wasn't a cause first to the best of my ability. If saying someone attacked me when they had a cause (whether I immediately remember what that cause might be or not) is wrong, then I do not know what to say. I have showed up at skirmishes to see what was going on and whether I needed to join or not. Once I did this outside the room the fight was occuring in. Emphasis on the once. I generally don't immediately go into the fight if I'm not sure. If I don't do anything, and I even tell you why and what I'm doing there, ignoring that to attack me without a reason, outside the bounds of common sense, is not on me. I ignored a lot of people because I was tired of the monstrous amount of hate and vitriol many people have for me and threw my way every day. It is not wrong of me to take measures to ensure my sanity.

For your last attempt at saying I have revived on guards more than once, I can confidently say that, like I stated before @Taryius was revived on guards in Eleusis. Mezghar was revived not on guards in Targossas. The only time I may have revived Aegoth would've been when everyone was trying to kill the Grandmaster for her fragments. I already addressed Atalkez.

Atalkez

Never on guards, no. You revived me on an island that I had no way to get off of. Minifie had to come get me.

Farrah

I legitimately cannot believe anyone could think rezz killing on guards is ok lol.

Iaxus

Wait this isn't rants

Archaeon

Iaxus said:

Wait this isn't rants

everything is rants

Caelan

Farrah said:

I legitimately cannot believe anyone could think rezz killing on guards is ok lol.

Pretty sure that was some old school griefy shit that was banned even back then, wasn't it? I remember people doing it in Shallam when I was MoW.

Vinzent

Farrah said:

I legitimately cannot believe anyone could think rezz killing on guards is ok lol.

I didn't even think it would work when I tried it but I attempted out of curiosity. That does not mean I thought it was a superior moral choice.

Austere

Farrah said:

I legitimately cannot believe anyone could think rezz killing on guards is ok lol.

Do we even play the same game? Of course someone thought it was okay.  It's like reading the warnings on the back of a bottle of shampoo.  There's always going to be some asshole that thinks it's a good idea. 

Sobriquet

Atalkez said:

Never on guards, no. You revived me on an island that I had no way to get off of. Minifie had to come get me.

And this demonstrates why ships and outer islands are dumb. 

Thaisen

What?? The whole ships system is dumb because somebody couldn't get off an island? To be fair, death is always an option.

Tahquil

New school kill rooms..... but its a whole area now.

Lenn

I wish you could just enemy everyone not on your own team in these events.

Sobriquet

Thaisen said:

What?? The whole ships system is dumb because somebody couldn't get off an island? To be fair, death is always an option.

Yes

Cooper

Thaisen said:

What?? The whole ships system is dumb because somebody couldn't get off an island? To be fair, death is always an option.

Ships are also dumb because they force you away from the rest of the player base, it takes an immense amount of time to sail places for next to no benefit (30% bonus experience is worth nothing if it takes 30 minutes to sail there), they are very expensive, pirates are assholes and can ruin any actual fun you have, and the new ship building skill didn't address many concerns that the player base had.

Also chops are dumb.

Adrik

Cooper said:

Thaisen said:

What?? The whole ships system is dumb because somebody couldn't get off an island? To be fair, death is always an option.

Ships are also dumb because they force you away from the rest of the player base, it takes an immense amount of time to sail places for next to no benefit (30% bonus experience is worth nothing if it takes 30 minutes to sail there), they are very expensive, pirates are assholes and can ruin any actual fun you have, and the new ship building skill didn't address many concerns that the player base had.

Also chops are dumb.

The new shipbuilding skill actually just made things worse, if we're being.. honest.

50 wood and 10 iron, for 1 shipwood and it takes 3000 gold.. off of the price tag is.. uh.  Maybe.. not so good. The pricetag on the wood is probably most of the issue. Mostly because I can sell 50 wood for 150g to my city, or 200+ to the general populace on the commodity market.

Edit: Then you have to pay 1 million gold, or so, for weapons. So old ships were actually 'dirt cheap' to gear up, in comparison.. and new ship owners are kind of just fucked over.

Ismay

Cooper said:

Thaisen said:

What?? The whole ships system is dumb because somebody couldn't get off an island? To be fair, death is always an option.

Ships are also dumb because they force you away from the rest of the player base, it takes an immense amount of time to sail places for next to no benefit (30% bonus experience is worth nothing if it takes 30 minutes to sail there), they are very expensive, pirates are assholes and can ruin any actual fun you have, and the new ship building skill didn't address many concerns that the player base had.

Also chops are dumb.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Add the new seamonster mechanics to an already horrible system, and ships are only good for two things. Those being a safe haven and storage.

I'm just glad I got my ship, and equipped it, before the ship trade crap.

Caelan

It almost makes island wings a value....  #conspiracytheory

Archaeon

I don't see an issue reviving someone on an island if they're waiting on a boss mob to gank the facet or doing something else nefarious.

Iocun

Nah. I consider forcing someone in a situation where heartstop is the only way out to be griefing, and "doing something nefarious" isn't a valid justification for griefing. It doesn't even keep them away for longer, it just causes them to lose more XP.

Vinzent

Iocun said:

Nah. I consider forcing someone in a situation where heartstop is the only way out to be griefing, and "doing something nefarious" isn't a valid justification for griefing. It doesn't even keep them away for longer, it just causes them to lose more XP.

Nobody heartstopped to get out.

Minifie

Vinzent said:

Iocun said:

Nah. I consider forcing someone in a situation where heartstop is the only way out to be griefing, and "doing something nefarious" isn't a valid justification for griefing. It doesn't even keep them away for longer, it just causes them to lose more XP.

Nobody heartstopped to get out.

“My actions were fine because worst case scenario didn’t happen”

Great attitude, real plus to any community.

Adrik

Minifie said:

Vinzent said:

Iocun said:

Nah. I consider forcing someone in a situation where heartstop is the only way out to be griefing, and "doing something nefarious" isn't a valid justification for griefing. It doesn't even keep them away for longer, it just causes them to lose more XP.

Nobody heartstopped to get out.

“My actions were fine because worst case scenario didn’t happen”

Great attitude, real plus to any community.

"It's okay. No one had to heartstop to get free. They were just unable to play achaea for 30 minutes while someone spent 30 minutes to rescue them.

Sobriquet

Vinzent said:

Iocun said:

Nah. I consider forcing someone in a situation where heartstop is the only way out to be griefing, and "doing something nefarious" isn't a valid justification for griefing. It doesn't even keep them away for longer, it just causes them to lose more XP.

Nobody heartstopped to get out.

If I were you I'd put that shovel away and go grab a cold beer from the fridge. 

Achilles

Cyrene is amazing at this event

Archaeon

I think that rezzing on the island is probably in response to other shit tactics that unnamed, unshamed people have been using, IE using grace to avoid the Thera portal gank squads, going to ridiculous areas that no one else can get into, worldburns on shrines that cannot be desecrated due to pacified rooms, etc.  It's kind of like the Qashar business.  As a team, we're just responding in kind to what we think are (intentional or otherwise) stupid tactics and now the 'Good' boyz are getting the short end of the stick, opinion wise.  It's not gonna bother me, and as a whole it doesn't bother us. But maybe if you think someone's being a dick to you, you should see what kind of behaviour you or your team-mates have done to the other side that would put someone in the mindframe of 'screw these dudes'.  Food for thought.

Kog

Achilles said:

Cyrene is amazing at this event

There's apparently a bug right now where, if your current target is unavailable (misspelled, dead, etc) it uses your settarget. For anything. Which is pretty obnoxious in a lot of ways.

But hey, we lost 2 facets (one to a game bug), but we've not blown up a same team facet attempt yet.