How fun the Reckoning is as an event

Minifie

It all comes down to stopping the one with the highest chance of success. Cyrene and Targossas did not engage, nor fight each other off on Patrick, while during every engagement with a boss the other cities have had to fight off all 5 other cities. The alliance has just gone from teaming up to non-aggression pact, which is fine, but even incidental alliances from target priorities is farther away from alliances than all together killing Patrick and then waltzing out together to return the facet. 

Keorin

Mhaldor has certainly ignored Hashan when fighting groups on the boss, this has happened in the -majority- of our Commander fights. I didn't think this was a controversial claim; do we need to put up deathsight history, or logs of when Proficy and Krizal would nearly take turns putting distort and gravehands down on the Commander?

Of course you guys aren't fighting with Hashan while Cyrene is off hitting the Witch or Ra'mah, that would be a stupid thing to do. And yes, Cyrene and Mhaldor have teamed up on Hashan, and Cyrene and Hashan have teamed up on Mhaldor. That's just what happens when one faction is working at the boss and the goal of several others is primarily to stop them.

Minifie

Keorin said:

Mhaldor has certainly ignored Hashan when fighting groups on the boss, this has happened in the -majority- of our Commander fights. I didn't think this was a controversial claim; do we need to put up deathsight history, or logs of when Proficy and Krizal would nearly take turns putting distort and gravehands down on the Commander?

Of course you guys aren't fighting with Hashan while Cyrene is off hitting the Witch or Ra'mah, that would be a stupid thing to do. And yes, Cyrene and Mhaldor have teamed up on Hashan, and Cyrene and Hashan have teamed up on Mhaldor. That's just what happens when one faction is working at the boss and the goal of several others is primarily to stop them.

Again, you conflate multiple cities prioritising their targets as teaming up. Teaming up requires said groups to specifically work together to achieve a common goal, stopping another faction is a common goal, but considering whenever the chance arises to kill anyone loose/alone comes up we dive on it (mizik and dalran specifically were targeting anything, and dropped a radiancing morzakai on the hashan party with delph arrows), so it's some pretty terrible teamwork.

As has been said before: 4 cities may work together INCIDENTALLY, simply due to both going, "we need to stop X", while Targ and Cyrene have gone from allied, to non-aggression. Complaining about -any- incidental teamworks is incredibly poor, considering in same cases it's solo Farrah or Proficy or Dalran etc just trying to do what can be done. 

Iocun

I think this has come down mostly to a disagreement on semantics. I don't think Keorin's complaints are directed at Mhaldor/Hashan, but rather at the nature of the event itself, which makes "incidental teamwork" happen, if you want it or not.

Minifie

That's just how FFA's work, though. I can get on board with the event needing to be better catered to BE an outright FFA, or alliances, or even something that is a FFA but allows for uninterrupted boss fights to enjoy the mechanics of the commanders, but at this point it's mostly a FFA, which is why Targ and Cyrene can non-aggression just fine, although Aurora put the no on alliance. 

Keorin

I get that people don't like reading what I write, but I think I've said this about five times on the prior page. Let me just try to be clear about this one last time:

Minifie said:

That's just how FFA's work, though. I can get on board with the event needing to be better catered to BE an outright FFA, or alliances, or even something that is a FFA but allows for uninterrupted boss fights to enjoy the mechanics of the commanders

This is exactly what I've been saying. Why, how, and how fair Cyrene and Targossas ending up on the same faction in this event is has been beaten to death already, I'm not trying to talk about anything remotely related to that, it's just what everyone seemingly wants to return to.

My point is that it isn't really feasible for multiple teams of remotely even strength to fight it out over a commander and have someone come away with a facet. Commander fights are too easily disruptable and heal up quickly, and that's in addition to it -always- being pretty unlikely that one group of fighters can hold an objective against multiple others.

The result of this is that we're seeing one of a few things happen every fight. Either things turn into a three hour stalemate, one team just gets overwhelming numbers, people use worldburn to secure the area, things go on so long that every group but one gives up, or the fighting happens in quieter times where there's no resistance. None of this, in my mind, is ideal, and it's part of what's making this event feel like a slog.

Everything I've been saying has been in response to someone saying that having to fight off several different cities when going for a commander makes worldburn necessary. My point is that every city has to fight off several others when going for the Commander (as is the nature of any sort of battle with more than two parties), and that if worldburn is a necessary mechanic to win facets alone, we have a problem.

TL;DR: Teaming, whether planned or not, is a necessary part of any event like this, and that's fine. But there needs to be a way to take out Commanders without overwhelming numbers or worldburn.

Minifie

Make your point clearer then, you never mentioned the free-for-all nature of the event, your first complaint was about worldburn, and then dealing with Hashan and Mhaldor working together. The event being a rabid free for all, including after the commander spawns is an issue since it's relatively easy to just camp the boss until despawn.

Keorin

My first post in this thread was about the need for there to be a better way to fight Commanders, because having several cities trying to stop you is inevitable and makes taking them in anything resembling an even fight unfeasible. Every post since has also been about this dynamic.

I get that the clarity of my arguments could often use work, but how was "I am not complaining about this, you are misreading my argument" unclear the first time I said it?

Aegoth

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

Silas

Please bring back forum jail for @Minifie.

Kog

Aegoth said:

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

I've targeted Targossas any time they've been attempting a goal that doesn't directly benefit the side Cyrene chose, just like all the other cities do to one another. When Targossas goes after my side's champion, we attack them. When they try to score for any candidate other than ours, we attack them.

Adrik

Kog said:

Aegoth said:

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

I've targeted Targossas any time they've been attempting a goal that doesn't directly benefit the side Cyrene chose, just like all the other cities do to one another. When Targossas goes after my side's champion, we attack them. When they try to score for any candidate other than ours, we attack them.

Okay, but @Kog their candidate, is your candidate. They are never going after your candidate's commander.

Please read before you post.

Edit: You lot are also getting the facet. Going to Cyrene. Letting Targossas call Haag somewhere. Then Veil Delivering the facet, to the Targossians. For fusing. You're not even getting the "Hah! We got more facets than you losers!" you're just giving points to Targossas for the same commander (Just less cool points on your end)

Kog

Adrik said:

Kog said:

Aegoth said:

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

I've targeted Targossas any time they've been attempting a goal that doesn't directly benefit the side Cyrene chose, just like all the other cities do to one another. When Targossas goes after my side's champion, we attack them. When they try to score for any candidate other than ours, we attack them.

Okay, but @Kog their candidate, is your candidate. They are never going after your candidate's commander.

Nephiny

Aegoth said:

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

I killed Svenson once.

Ygia

I also saw Shirszae kill Armitage earlier. It's not even entirely non-aggression pact at this point.

Cooper

Maybe we should make Cyrene and Targ tell us how many facets they've each put in, and then heavily shame the one that put in less. You guys can decide whether to do it IC or OOC.

Iocun

Aegoth said:

People would probably complain less if we saw more "Keorin has been slain by Tesha's obnoxious speech patterns." or "Sothantos has been buried alive under the onerous paperwork of Kog." on deathsight. So far, 0 of that has happened at all, in comparison to literally every other city (Even Eleusis recently omg)

Does "<Cyrenian> has died to the holy power of a shrine of Aurora." count? There have been quite a few of these!

Really though: it still seems that many are going by the assumption that this was intended as some sort of city-vs-city event, like a CTF. Maybe the admins did intend it as such, maybe not, but IC, we have no real reason to treat it as such. It's a candidate-vs-candidate event and it just so happened that most candidates turned out to be strongly aligned to certain cities. That was a player choice and not a priori a feature of the event. Suggesting we should care which city hands in how many facets and similar things makes no sense to me. We just want our candidate to win.

Vhaith

Ygia said:

I also saw Shirszae kill Armitage earlier. It's not even entirely non-aggression pact at this point.

Shirszae doesn't count. She's neither Cyrenian or Targossian. She's 'whatever side she currently feels like being on.'

Ygia

She's supporting Pryla'ari. I'm just saying, it's not totally peacable on every single front like people make it out to be.

Shirszae

That was in Annwyn and I waited until he jumped me, to be fair 

Milabar

Eleusis wins.

Carry on.

Andraste

Echoing the sentiments expressed above, please disable shrines in event areas (at least at times when the generals are up). 

Synthus

So after a roughly eight month hiatus, I came back yesterday and gave this whole Reckoning business a spin. After going through a few bouts of trying to take down Patrick, I've got some feedback on the mechanical aspects of the Reckoning as a whole. ( I also slept on the experience so that I could try to be a bit more concise and a little less miffed )

• I get that the Reckoning was supposed to be this huge FFA-style event, however I'm not a PvP'er. It's one of the things that led to me taking a hiatus before and I am in no rush to return to that headache. As such, there's very little I can contribute to outside of the initial facet attempt where we try to kill the commander right after summoning it. As soon as the fight devolves into PvP, I'm as useless as a wet noodle. I'd really like it if there was some way I could still contribute to my city/candidate's efforts without having to fight other players.

• I don't really understand why these areas aren't flagged as EXP loss suspended. You fight bosses that more than likely will wipe the entire party multiple times, and eventually the fights are going to devolve into skirmishes. Losing an entire day of hunting in half an hour of trying to take down a commander is not enjoyable in the least. (Then again, I'm a little biased on this opinion considering I think EXP loss as a whole needs to be relegated to the dustbin of history)

• To my first point, I think this event could have really benefited from lower strength, instanced commander arenas. Sure they don't award as many points as the larger skirmish arenas and there's no FFA aspect, but those of us that don't enjoy that could still contribute and enjoy the event.

• I'm still kind of torn on this one as I don't have a lot of experience with the Reckoning as a whole, but I think that if a group of eleven people, including dragons, are not enough to clear the slimes on Patrick, the slimes might be a little overpowered.

Overall after getting a taste of what the Reckoning has to offer, I think I'll sit it out. I appreciate the work that went into it, but I don't think this is my cup of tea. 

Gallida

Patrick is purely a numbers game, which is kind of refreshing compared to every other superboss Achaea has made. As long as you can hit the right mob at the right time, you can help whether you're level 20 or 120.

Lenn

Three hours for a chance of getting a single point, plus whatever asinine bullshit you have to do to even get to that point.

Achaea devs just hate their own playerbase lol.

Kelstaadith

I actually like that these are longer periods. Because of everything that is going on, a lot of people are stuck at home, and this is something to do that isn’t a grind.
This is coming from someone who has died upwards of 20 times to the event, I don’t mind it being hard, how else are they going to make things stay interesting? If it wasn’t hard everyone would complain that it didn’t feel like they actually were doing anything.

Caelan

Death's Heart would have broken half the population of this game. 

Archaeon

Kelstaadith said:

This is coming from someone who has died upwards of 20 times to the event

Atalkez

I died 30 times yesterday alone, I think.

Keorin

I'm at 196 total for the event, by my count. And up on experience!