Iron Elite Membership Updates!

Isaeri

Mm. I dunno. System might be slightly broken since the cancel link doesn't seem to show any button/whatnot to cancel, and trying to order a new subscription only tells me that I have an existing iron membership as is.

Isaeri

Minifie said:

Isaeri said:

Thaisen said:

As it should... but it doesn’t.

if you renew within 30 days the benefits don’t reset.

Has this been confirmed?

should always work like this, if your sub lapse, it is "dormant" for 30 days, if you resub it continues at the point you stopped (so if you were at 20% and 120cr, and it drops off, you resub 15 days later, it moves up to 125 and 25%). It'll also work with the multiple month option, but if it doesn't, just issue yourself or message nicola or Makarios.

oh okay, thanks for tip!

Urnhlug

@Milabar

In regards to buying artefacts with membership credits - I understand you can just use the bound credits to buy artefacts like normal, but my point is that if there's going to be any focus on the new player experience/new player retention, and marketing the IEM as a "high value" option, I think there should be a stepping stone for new players to obtain the T1 version of popular artefacts using these new membership credits.

It still takes 4 months to buy a T1 weapon, which works out to ~$95. New players won't be super excited about that. If they find out that membership offers a quicker route to stepping into the world of artefacts, it's a good way to get new players into the game and excited about the future of their character and building it. Not that they'll be excited about $70 either, but the idea that you can work towards the good T1 artes **quicker** as a member seems like something that would hook a lot of people and provide a big "WORTH IT" moment for new players that otherwise see all these prices as "who hired the business people for this game from the local asylum".

The initial steps into getting artefacts/going down the path of spending is essentially jumping off a cliff. Even the no brainer credit package is $50. I think if the $25 membership provided some kind of discounted path to T1s of popular artes you'd see a lot more people dipping their toes into the waters of spending, rather than stagnating at no spending ever.

Seragorn

Caelan said:

Austere said:

I love the changes thus far.  I do think crowns, sleeves,  and customization credits are entirely too expensive though.  Both can be bought using cheaper methods ooc(see buying someone globes ooc for these items) and ic. I'd be incredibly surprised if the new membership credit shop sold anything but room credits. 

Membership items should be cheaper than the standard,  not twice as expensive. 

Agree. I can buy sleeves with it but there is still so much RNG that it just sucks up my 'mc's and turns them in to half the cost in bound credits.  I can buy a sleeve for 60 but only trade the card in for 35.  Mayan Crowns go for half the 'mc' cost fairly regularly IG as well. 

Even If I could buy the sleeves for a certain suit (MEMBERSHIP BUY SLEEVE FOR <SET>) it would at least reduce SOME of the RNGesus needed to not just piss away your credits by turning them into half of their value in bound credits 

I tend to disagree with this, you dont want a simple mechanic to translate the mcr into unbound credits without some inherent risk.  There will be times when crowns just arent worth it sure, but there are certainly times when they would be even at that price (eg. previous crown auction period they would have been bought in bulk i suspect).  The sleeves in particular need to take into account the fact that there are some extremely valuable cards available as well, and if you could simply bulk buy cards at say 40 mcr then someone like me would clean house by churning them out and playing the bulk numbers game. Especially when you take into account that the resulting card can be essentially used like unbound credits by giving it to someone else to trade in.

Even the customisation credits, which for a long while were selling at about 2:1, they will increase in value as the many years of accumulated tokens slowly leave the system (even I'm low now), so if your spending 40 mc's to get 50, then able to turn that into 30 unbounds, thats perfectly reasonable, and you should be wearing some hit on the translation of what is essentially bound credits to unbound.

I haven't had an a membership for many years simply because of the whole 'end game' line of reasoning suggested previously in this thread, but the options given so far already have me reconsidering it, and I think they seem pretty well balanced.

Also, love the idea of entry level artifacts being purchasable with mcr for roughly tradein value (maybe slightly above, say 75% of full value so theres a small loss), seems like the perfect way to give people a taste of the artied life without the fear of future class changes requiring them to turn them in at a loss.  The fact you cant unbind those credits from trade in makes it a tidy mechanical way to give additional value to the mcr's and help nudge people towards memberships, but it also stops people from going hard and getting instantly artied at a discount because of the limitations on mcr available, and the need to upgrade those entry level arties by using bound credits, which wouldnt be at the same discount.

Maajida

The maximum possible Member Credits anyone can spend is 1525 in their first year.
One year and a day becomes: 3325 mcs.
Two years and one day becomes: 5125 mcs.
Three years and one day becoms: 6925 mcs. ETC..

This is just a basic breakdown I do when I consider the value of something. I usually start with the raw value as close as I can get to it then add my own personal sentiment before buying. This is in the vein of paper napkin during lunch, so if there's errors please point them out.

If this interests anyone, read on. Otherwise, it'll be pretty boring.



My analysis on a $240 investment (800 outright credits from the site without any sale/bonus, rounded down) and the initial 1525 Membership Credits. Personal desires will skew the value, I'm trying to approach it as pure numbers without sentiment. The sleeves are worth way more if you're trying to collect them all, likewise for pets, or if you're into building a house, or get your ship items nondecayed, etc.

Assuming you bought only one thing to its max, it would be:
30 purchases of room credits (1500 total (25mcs remainder), though 50 is the base for many things. Valuable, not recycled into economy, high impact on value of commodity market.)
38 purchases of customcredits (1520 total (5mcs remainder), though 50 is the base for many things. 760 unbound value,  more/less. Valuable, not recycled into economy.) 
33 minipets (40mcs remainder. Average pet price is 10-40 credits, so this is more for the gambler. Would be really nice if you couldn't pull doubles. Less Valuable, can potentially be recycled into economy as wares. Low impact.)
25 sleeves (25mcs remainder. 875 bound value, uncertain unbound value (assumed same base), 650cr deficit that could potentially be made up with rare cards. Valuable, easily recycled into economy, high impact on value/resell of cards.)
21 crowns (55mcs remainder. Just shy of 2 per month. A very poor choice, considering a monthly investment of $20-25, which would net 2+ crowns from buying promos for other people. Crown store items have no value, many one-time use items.)

After a real life year and a day, $240 becomes $480(1500 unbound without sale or bonus, rounded down). Let's assume nothing was spent after the first year and a total of 3325 mcs.

Assuming you bought only one thing to its max, it would be:
66 purchases of room credits (3300 total (25mcs remainder))
83 purchases of customcredits (3320 total (5mcs remainder)) 
73 minipets (45mcs remainder.)
55 sleeves (25mcs remainder. 1925 bound value, uncertain unbound value (assumed same base), 1400cr deficit.)
47 crowns (35mcs remainder. Average 4 per month rounded up. 1645cr unbound average sale price (assuming no drop in price). )

These numbers in mind, basing this strictly off the current prices on the site, the membership is still the best overall best first large investment after no-brainer. If prices were not so high, things would be different. Try to keep in mind the second year requires an entire period of a year to pass. So there's no way to bulk anymore than the above in a single year. 

All of this still doesn't count the other benefits of exp and lessons (which the daily might be changing). So there's value there.
---------------------------
Overall, this is a great start for people who've reached the end of their need for bound credits or for those people who value other things over artefact purchases or for people who want a way to convert their bound Membership Credits to unbound. What I imagine you'll see is people offering to sell their membership credits for these items. ex: MARKET Selling minipet cache, sleeve, crown, custom credits, roomcredits, send tells!

I still think Maya Crowns should be added to the monthly membership like Ironcoins, Wonder Crystals, and the other things associated with the memberships in other IRE games. This is why I'm not subscribing and I hope I'm not alone on that front. I think keeping their price high in the store is to cut down on market value loss and prevent an easy MCS to Unbound credit exchange.

I don't have numbers on what's sold so far, so that information would change a lot of things. I think if you buy Crowns, you're valuing membership credits at a 2-for-1 value to unbound credits. 

Urnhlug

@Maajida

"These numbers in mind, basing this strictly off the current prices on the site, the membership is still the best overall best first large investment after no-brainer."

I'm not sure I agree. Yes, you're right if you only consider the next step being the standard credit purchases. I mean you're looking at $240 for 1525 bound credits, vs. $240 for 725 unbound credits on the website. It works out to very close to 2x the amount of bound credits for the price.

That being said, you're talking about spending $240 being "the next best step" after no-brainer stuff. I personally think the leap from $10 for no-brainer lessons to $50 no-brainer credits is already huge. I personally still haven't purchased it.

Your logic checks out for people who have little need for bound credits, but I don't like the concept that a new-ish player should be spending $240 on a deal that doesn't particularly garner anything for them.

Also, if you don't take into account the 12 month discount and wanted to do it monthly, the deal suddenly becomes borderline not worth it compared to just waiting on a good promo, too.

I'll hold firm that I think MCs should offer an avenue to commonplace T1 artes as a way to entice new players into the long haul.

Vinzent

I want permanent lesson packages. Would actually spend more on that than credits.

Taryius

I'm a huge fan of these changes, and I want to do my part in helping to highlight positive changes from the Admin rather than quietly accepting them and only highlighting negative ones. Very excited!

I'm personally going to wait until the talisman additions to the membershop come into play before I decide how big of a subscription I want to buy, but mainly because I don't trust myself to not spend the membership credits before then.

But, I'm afraid there is a very very dire issue that is not being addressed enough, and if left unattended could lead to the entire downfall of Achaea as we know it.... Membership Credits and Mayan Crowns cannot both be abbreviated as MC's. We as a community need to band together and decide how to abbreviate these currencies without leading to mass confusion and chaos.

Antonius

People seem to have decided on BCR for bound credits, so MCR for membership credits.

Veldrin

At first I thought the 'mc' on the membership wares was Mayan Crowns and I was like 'what the f...'
I think the Mayan Crown price need to go down, else it looks good, would also like if there was lessons packages that could be bought on that wares thing though. By now I'm looking at around 15000 lessons to tritrans a class, so it takes a while

Maajida

@Urnhlug Absolutely agree. I haven't bought the No-Brainer credit package yet because I have a gambling addiction and end up spending that money on promo items. When I came to Achaea, I made a spreadsheet to track all my credit spending plans based on my retirement value.  I did the math for a brand new player and compared it to a premium video game: $20 for 2k lessons, Level 80 credit/lesson investment, and $50 for 300 credits gets you tri-trans and some abilities in other skills. $70 investment to play your class and figure out where to go from there. I spent weeks talking to people before spending a single credit -- outside of training skills I wanted. 

I figured that $240 (Or $25 a month) was the next best thing because it gave your currency, exp buff, and time to figure things out. People who this applies to are newbies or those who never invested financially. To pvp, as an example, money won't solve everything. It'll solve a lot though. But,  you still have to learn to use your client of choice, the game, and build up some experience doing the thing. Some people will figure out that after that initial $70 investment, they would feel more at home engaged in questing, crafting, or leadership. There's a lot in the game that has a smaller buy-in that membership would cover easily.

However, if you had the means to spend $250 up front and the daily lesson/exp bonus did not interest you in the slightest, gambling promos are always the best option to spend the money. You'll have a much higher return. Better if you're lucky. Even more if you're patient.  Take it from a gambler, it's also more fun than waiting or buying from a special store. 

If we take PvP out of the equation, the membership benefits a lot more people.

---
I'm probably always going to feel bad about buying the membership coming from Aetolia, where the Iron coins really sold it for me. I bought the Coin artifacts for all of my characters and loved them. The shop of wonders has a lot of things I would buy if the cost was better. One month, practically every promo I bought was to buy crowns from people. I made a spreadshe-- big list of everything from the store I wanted to own one day. I also asked around for opinions on what people found most interesting and fun from the store. I value fun or convenient artefacts a lot more than pvp/hunt ones, for example: shop directory.

I'll keep repeating myself about it, even though I feel so annoying. If a special currency is added to the membership each month, preferably Maya Crown, I'll buy a full year outright. That's just me, though. I'm still hoarding a supply of retirement credits thanks to my spreadsheet skills. 

Milabar

Just don't fiddle with the room credits until after the first of March please! That's where my 300$ is going.

Ismay

Actually, never mind. Have at it, heh.

Jovolo

'Heh' is the worst word in the english language

Utianima

Jovolo said:

'Heh' is the worst word in the english language

Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh 😂

Prythe

I am assuming the ability to choose a different "daily bonus" is not yet live?

And this: Your chosen daily bonus: 5 lessons

Is just in preparation for an additional upcoming change?

I looked at HELP ELITE and the balance of the changes seem to have been added to the file, but nothing about the Daily Bonus.

Minifie

Prythe said:

I am assuming the ability to choose a different "daily bonus" is not yet live?

And this: Your chosen daily bonus: 5 lessons

Is just in preparation for an additional upcoming change?

I looked at HELP ELITE and the balance of the changes seem to have been added to the file, but nothing about the Daily Bonus.

Daily bonus not yet implemented.

Maajida

It seems like they're working overtime to get the membership changes into place. This is the fastest I've seen things implemented. I wonder when the daily credit tasks change will kick in. That's a pretty big update.

Minifie

Maajida said:

It seems like they're working overtime to get the membership changes into place. This is the fastest I've seen things implemented. I wonder when the daily credit tasks change will kick in. That's a pretty big update.

My eyesight is so fucked I thought your display picture was a lizard or frogman.

Archaeon

Minifie said:

Maajida said:

It seems like they're working overtime to get the membership changes into place. This is the fastest I've seen things implemented. I wonder when the daily credit tasks change will kick in. That's a pretty big update.

My eyesight is so fucked I thought your display picture was a lizard or frogman.

do you mean the South Carolina lizard man?

Ysela

Can room credits be bought for another, or at least for a clan, using membership  credits? If not, can we please have this?

Milabar

I approve the above post

Vhaith

Milabar said:

I approve the above post

Thank you, Commander Shepard.