Casing and Fencing

Milabar

I've had multiple millions stolen from me, unique items, things that I'll never be able to see again in the game from my goddess, so on, so such.  

And you just accept it cause it's Achaea and it's gonna have theft. There's always been thieves, always will be thieves, and people that don't understand, or are saying you don't "opt in" for theft.

You literally log into the game.
That is your "opt in" 
If that makes you butthurt, then quit.  With Achaeas dying population anyways, it'll just be one more reason people come around to cry and say how much better things were.

They weren't better.
They weren't some amazing old days where everything was sunshine and chill.

Anyone that logs into Achaea, not expecting to get royally screwed at some point in your gaming experience, is obviously one of the "we play it for fun and relaxing" and you'll cry so hard when your entire life is destroyed in game cause the garden decides to change a single thing.

May all you people crying over theft have your possessions fully cased, booked and tagged.

I need some new items to bid on anyways.

Braull

I think the whole "opt in" thing is actually besides the point, afterall by just playing the game knowing theft is a thing we open ourselves to it. I understand the reasoning behind the "opt in" discussions, I just don't think that's the big issue with theft.

To me the question of theft is more one of "does it add value or enjoyment to both parties involved and do we have significant recourse should we feel hard done by" and if the answer is no then it should not exist. As others mentioned, theft is also something that requires we use mechanics outside of the game to protect ourselves which almost feels like a "bug" to me. If something exists in the game, shouldn't the solution also exist in the game?

People also stand the chance of losing significant RL world money due to theft and I dont know about the rest of you, but I would not be pleased by that and may rethink logging in if it was me. 

Morsul

Let's focus back on the people who are defending theft and its ability to swipe thousands of dollars from players. What sort of lifestyle do they lead that makes them think this is okay? I do wonder.

Khel

As someone on the side of "theft is dumb", this is getting weirdly personal and dumb.

Tonin

Morsul said:

Let's focus back on the people who are defending theft and its ability to swipe thousands of dollars from players. What sort of lifestyle do they lead that makes them think this is okay? I do wonder.

And when we're done doing that, let's talk about the type of sicko who actually uses blue shells in Mario Kart. I mean, you'd have to be some kind of sociopath, right?

Nicola

All right folks, this has gone way beyond appropriate or constructive. This is the only chance you have to get off the personal attacks and utterly absurd hyperbole and back onto the topic at hand, or we'll close it down.

Morsul

There are people who are literally defending theft and players quitting But I guess we don't care about their feelings once they quit.

Atalkez

Morsul said:

There are people who are literally defending theft and players quitting But I guess we don't care about their feelings once they quit.

Anyone who quits over theft would have quit over something equally annoying later anyway. Weak reasoning.

Morsul

Atalkez said:

Morsul said:

There are people who are literally defending theft and players quitting But I guess we don't care about their feelings once they quit.

Anyone who quits over theft would have quit over something equally annoying later anyway. Weak reasoning.

Thanks for dismissing the issue of promo item theft as just "something annoying".

Antonius

Morsul said:

Atalkez said:

Morsul said:

There are people who are literally defending theft and players quitting But I guess we don't care about their feelings once they quit.

Anyone who quits over theft would have quit over something equally annoying later anyway. Weak reasoning.

Thanks for dismissing the issue of promo item theft as just "something annoying".

Promotional items can no longer be stolen as a result of the most recent changes, so that shouldn't be a problem going forward. Have you tried contacting the admin directly about the specific promotional items you had stolen and seeing what they can/will do about it?

Atalkez

I didn’t dismiss anything about that. I’m firmly anti theft, however if someone quits over it then the logic stands they would quit over something they disliked in the future anyway. 

We’re not not talking about harassment or something more serious.

Minifie

Morsul said:

Atalkez said:

Morsul said:

There are people who are literally defending theft and players quitting But I guess we don't care about their feelings once they quit.

Anyone who quits over theft would have quit over something equally annoying later anyway. Weak reasoning.

Thanks for dismissing the issue of promo item theft as just "something annoying".

To my knowledge, no one has defended promo item theft, and people have agreed that it needs to be stopped. The issue here is that theft can remain, and be pulled back until it's not really super lucrative, but it STILL exists and a lot of thieves who still play will probably be ok. Just outright removing it is drastic when you consider that oversights should just be fixed instead.

Morsul

So we're just going to write off the reasons people quit? Did I miss something? Is Achaea suddenly so overabundant with players that it can afford to do that?

Ryx

Here's another idea: a one to five minute "theft grace" after logging in. Maybe something similar but longer if you log in and you were dormant, though that's less simple.

Or make the common theft defences (e.g., rewearing pack) serverside. Maybe a skill.

I think disconnect theft is the worst kind of theft and is one of those loopholes that could be fixed to help stop people quitting.

Torinn

Morsul said:

So we're just going to write off the reasons people quit? Did I miss something? Is Achaea suddenly so overabundant with players that it can afford to do that?

The game can't cater to everyone.  Most of us are at peace with that.

Aegoth

Bye Morsul *waves heartily*

Melodie

Ryx said:

Here's another idea: a one to five minute "theft grace" after logging in. Maybe something similar but longer if you log in and you were dormant, though that's less simple.

Or make the common theft defences (e.g., rewearing pack) serverside. Maybe a skill.

I think disconnect theft is the worst kind of theft and is one of those loopholes that could be fixed to help stop people quitting.

Something like this used to actually exist, but in a slightly different manner - the idea was to make someone who logged into a raid in their home city have a small bit of grace so they couldn't be attacked/killed the second they logged in.

As I recall, it had a lot of bugs with it, and then it just kinda fell off the face of the earth silently for some reason. 

Cobault

I vote for serverside anti-theft.
It auto-rewears anything removed, auto puts gold back in your container, auto selfishness, and this is always on at all times, so even if you disconnect.
The only way you get robbed is if you have it off.

We don't have to delete theft. Let's just make it completely pointless.

Sophi

A lot of posts mention no consequences for the thief. Would those in the camp of "theft is awful" be willing to reconsider if theft remained as-is, but there was some way to actually go after thieves?

I admit I don't have any good ideas for this. The infamy system used to be able to accomplish this by making thieves open pk due to how fast their infamy gain is. The way infamy works now, this isn't the case anymore. Do we need a separate system to mark thieves as open pk, like some kinda thief penalty aura? Can we tie this to hard-coded punishments for thieves that make it harder to steal or them easier to hunt (such as extending evade balance, reducing pickpocket success rate or adding randomness to the pickpocket channel, reducing/removing the ability to worm warp)? A denizen that actively seeks out aura'd thieves like some sort of slow-moving snail assassin that forces the thief to remain on the move and not holed up somewhere (like frogbait)?

Just brainstorming some terrible ideas cause I'm bored af.

Mishgul

Death is not a punishment. Dying is so inconsequential. 

Athelas

Actually, here's a thought:

1. Keep theft as is.

2. Upon successfully killing the thief either personally or through hire, the thief is shrubbed for 1 full week. As in 7 Achaean months.

This equates more to a real world situation. Where the thief, upon being caught, gets to spend some time in the corner, contemplating their miss-deeds.

Sophi

Mishgul said:

Death is not a punishment. Dying is so inconsequential. 

Not with the current chit system.

Morsul

Sophi said:

Mishgul said:

Death is not a punishment. Dying is so inconsequential. 

Not with the current chit system.

Still not a punishment. Thieves care about the things that they get from theft, not exp that you lose from death.

Torinn

Losing the chit means they don't get their item

Antonius

Torinn said:

Losing the chit means they don't get their item

It means they won't get their cut of the auction gold. If they win the auction they still get the item.

Cooper

Torinn said:

Losing the chit means they don't get their item

This is wrong. Please read the help file.

Torinn

Ah okay see you guys know it, I don't need to read it again!

Asmodron

Milabar said:

I've had multiple millions stolen from me, unique items, things that I'll never be able to see again in the game from my goddess, so on, so such.  

And you just accept it cause it's Achaea and it's gonna have theft. There's always been thieves, always will be thieves, and people that don't understand, or are saying you don't "opt in" for theft.

You literally log into the game.
That is your "opt in" 
If that makes you butthurt, then quit.  With Achaeas dying population anyways, it'll just be one more reason people come around to cry and say how much better things were.

They weren't better.
They weren't some amazing old days where everything was sunshine and chill.

Anyone that logs into Achaea, not expecting to get royally screwed at some point in your gaming experience, is obviously one of the "we play it for fun and relaxing" and you'll cry so hard when your entire life is destroyed in game cause the garden decides to change a single thing.

May all you people crying over theft have your possessions fully cased, booked and tagged.

I need some new items to bid on anyways.

I find this train of thought interesting...and albeit disturbing.

You claim that by logging into the game that we thus declare ourselves for the thieves. The very idea you are insinuating is that we are logging in to play for the amusement of the thief rather than our own. This is a game, a long story based game where we build up our characters. To do so...I need to play the game, and yet the very option I am given in order to conserve the things i've worked so hard for and on is..."Stay on guards"...and thus...dont engage in the game?

Here is the options i'm given right now:

- Go out into the world...and be targetted by a bored thief at any time, any where. Once you see them case you...go home and stay on guards, or hope you dont slip up somehow and they get what they were looking for.

- Stay on guards to avoid theft.

What options does the thief have?

- Keep an eye out on anyone not on guards and out in the world. Case them. Keep tabs on when you cased them for items.

- Play the game.

Giving the option that we can "kill the thief" is asinine. To suggest that a thief would just be standing somewhere out in the open and easily targettable is foolish. A thief is a thief because they know how to be sneaky...and not the opposite.

Lenn

I tried to kill the thief, he kept running back to Targossas, so I gave up and hired instead, and logged out to focus more time on a more fun game.

Torinn

Asmodron said:

You claim that by logging into the game that we thus declare ourselves for the thieves. The very idea you are insinuating is that we are logging in to play for the amusement of the thief rather than our own. 

I take issue with that line of thought as well.  The only thing we have expressed is that by logging in we are all opting in to the gamut of gameplay possibilities the game presents us.  Theft is one possibility, but it is not even remotely the only option. 
Given  what you said, perhaps it is a difference in perspective.  If I'm stolen from, I say "bah that sucks I should have been more careful.  I'll be more careful in the future.". It's no different than if the Tsol'teth came and destroyed my city.  "Ah that sucks I'll do better next time.". What you seem to be indicating by your line of thought is you feel specifically targeted - that they -are- out to get you and for little more than their own amusement.  I have not ever felt that way.  It sucks but it's part of the game, and I live and grow with it.  Not to say there couldn't be improvements, of course.