Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Keorin

Shirszae said:

Synthus said:

Shirszae said:

I don't know how things could have been made any more clearer than Neraeos made them by that log.  Really can't believe that people insisted on banning everything in spite of it. That's the biggest wtf and proof that most of the senators in Cyrene shouldn't be there... 

"The Staff of Nicator is the only means by which to defeat the Black Wave and turn the tide of the war you wage with them. If you seek vengeance, justice, and retribution for your fallen, then go forth, compete, and lay your claim to the staff. Otherwise, be as silent as the graves you have dug."

That's basically what he said. He litterally made a point of mentioning the staff is the most effective weapon against the Tsolteth. You are nitpicking because he didn't say it like you would have, but the essence of the message was the same:
" what you all are seeking won't be achieved by foregoing the chance to get back the staff" 

Do I need to dig up the several other times where the only thing he mentioned was being able to keep the staff out of the Tsol'teth's hands for another round of games? Or point out, again, that these messages were sent at 9am on a Friday morning, and then the parts that you're saying are most convincing were never repeated at any other time he talked about it? I feel like it's a little unreasonable to say "look at this one ct message saying that the staff is an important weapon that was made a time when almost no one was about, how come you didn't take this and run with it and let it rewrite every assumption and expectation you had about this event, and then convince the rest of your city too".

Again, it's very, very easy to take all those messages out of context after we know their meaning and say it was obvious at the time, but that's not how anyone who was actually there felt. If you were assuming that there was going to be more to this event (and I know that you personally did, because we talked about it), then of course you're not going to come away figuring that it will -all- depend on the staff, that not a scrap of the nonstop work that people have been putting in for months will have any effect on the outcome.

And yes, obviously a lot of this falls onto Cyrene's leadership. But I like to think I was pretty engaged with things, and I wasn't hearing -anyone- in the coalition feel like this was a climactic battle for the final result of a months' long event. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the whole rest of the playerbase understood that the event was going to end right after the staff was taken, and weren't surprised at all by the outcome of things, and I was just the stupid one for failing to understand what, apparently, everyone else did. If so, then I damned well wish one of you people that understood things properly would have taken the time to inform those of us not quite so intelligent as to get it right, so that we could have played along too.

Jiraishin

@Keorin, I strongly suspect that this isn't the end of the event. From what the admin have said on this thread, the plotline was ongoing. It's the end of one chapter and the retreat of the tide.

But also... the outcome that was a 'victory' for the Tsol'teth and a 'loss' for Cyrene, the Tide receding, is the same thing that would have been a victory for Cyrene and a loss for the Tsol'teth if things had turned out differently. You have not actually lost anything, except this particular chance to get vengeance.

Tiax

If I had seen a signpost of the sort that Neraeos shared with Cyrene it would have totally changed my perception and interaction with the event.  Very disappointed that wasn't done in a more public fashion, especially one less ephemeral than a city channel.  Relying on the grapevine to spread that sort of vital guidance is asking for trouble and dissatisfaction.

Synthus

Shirszae said:

Synthus said:

Shirszae said:

I don't know how things could have been made any more clearer than Neraeos made them by that log.  Really can't believe that people insisted on banning everything in spite of it. That's the biggest wtf and proof that most of the senators in Cyrene shouldn't be there... 

"The Staff of Nicator is the only means by which to defeat the Black Wave and turn the tide of the war you wage with them. If you seek vengeance, justice, and retribution for your fallen, then go forth, compete, and lay your claim to the staff. Otherwise, be as silent as the graves you have dug."

That's basically what he said. He litterally made a point of mentioning the staff is the most effective weapon against the Tsolteth. You are nitpicking because he didn't say you like you would have, but the essence of the message was the same:
" what you all are seeking won't be achieved by foregoing the chance to get back the staff" 

I have to disagree. I'm seeing this log for the first time, and even with the benefit of hindsight, there are still a number of points that could have been clarified. From the log, it -is- clarified that:

• The Seleucarian Games will not impact the Tsol'teth Games in any form or fashion (duh)
• Sampling will only be required for the Sojourn.
• Winning the games would "be winning the staff and never returning it to them." (Ooookaaay?)
• "The staff is the most effective weapon to use against the Tsol'teth."
  

While that makes an argument for competing, it does not make an absolute argument, which would have been needed for Cyrene's participation after everything it went through. Explaining that the staff is the only option to winning the war and that it's the magical mcguffin in this plot line would have made that argument a hell of a lot easier.

I realize it was said that the staff was "The most effective weapon to use against the Tsol'teth," but that does not clearly explain that it is the only weapon against the Tsol'teth in this case, which is what it feels like so far since the closing of the games. I do feel like greater emphasis with more direct clarity would have been beneficial here, especially since the majority of us were dealing with a great deal of burn-out at the time. Otherwise, why wouldn't we think there was another option on the table that might present itself?

Also, I'm still kind of confused by "I am pointing out that defeating the Tsol'teth, as far as these games go, would be winning the staff and never returning it to them." I was under the impression that the staff would be held by whoever won the games until the next games, so why would it ever go back to the Tsol'teth anyway? The wording on this and what's trying to be conveyed doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky or complain about stuff just to annoy. There were a lot of pain points in this event, and I feel like a lot of them could have been avoided with clearer communication.

Keorin

If you don't understand why after weeks of people pouring their time and effort into fighting tide, trying to engage with denizens, write plot threads, and otherwise achieve something during this event, watching everything you have worked for get resolved with a few god yells is more than a bit disappointing, then I don't know what to say.

As best I can tell, the entirety of Cyrene could have logged off for six weeks, and nothing about this outcome would have been meaningfully different. I know for damned well sure that I could have. People worked and fought and lost friends and got frustrated and pushed through out of the belief that it would achieve -something-, that it would make -any kind of difference-, only to find out that nope, could have skipped all of that for the same results.

I find it pretty unsurprising that people who walked away with the staff, or a new class, after getting to skip out on all the tide fighting and getting fun admin interactions feel a bit differently about these results, though.

Jiraishin

Yeah, because if we'd logged out for six weeks nothing about the current outcome would have changed, and we'd still have Staff and fun admin interactions.
Sometimes when you work for things it turns out you've been working in the wrong direction to achieve the outcome you wanted. Doesn't make the concept of effort meaningless.

Taryius

 "The final result of this war will solely depend on who wins the staff", then I don't know what to say.

No one said that though, in fact the admin have been very consistent to say the war is far from over. All that was said was that the method of removing the Tide likely would have changed, though I'm sure that would've been based on what the winner decides to try.

Otherwise, unless it turns out that all the cities of Achaea will turn to rubble and the mortal races will seek to exist because we lack the Staff of Nicator, the Staff is not going to be the sole saviour.

even if it is for the Staff because the intuitive thing to do would be to barge into the TT's home, kick all their stuff down and try to make off with the Staff.

Yeah I think this is spot on a good intuition, and the admin said they were prepared to go that route, yet no one did. And I think, having been in the same perspective, a lot of that was out of fear. We saw the Tsol'teth in their full power decimate their enemies, and not wanting to lose more is a real fear. But that is good event and villain writing, not bad.

I know that a number of us tried the murder, war, and sabotage route, but we weren't able to get any traction from that either in game or from NPC interactions. I know I poked at Hycanthus a number of times to try and get something going, but had no luck there. In the end I believe the best we mustered toward that goal was the coalition efforts during the XP Event, but even that felt like I was gonna be shrubbed afterwards for griefing.

I don't want to knock your efforts, because we all start with pestering denizens but there is always more you can do than request a powerful weapon from a denizen. I was honestly surprised by the lack of action against the Teth direct from the Coalition. Raiding Balan'ukia, killing the Tsol'teth denizens within (including their children), setting up outside and denying people easy access, attacking or removing litanied Tharos, accepting Bain'maal's challenge or trying to gank him or Silon'ukia in the Underrealm. Even if you ultimately fail at these, it shows initiative and commitment which can help get a powerful denizen on your side.

Edit: Because more was said while I typed this at work. No admin has ever confirmed or said that the Staff is the only way to beat the Tsol'teth, in fact they've confirmed otherwise. All that unfounded mindset is going to do is give you more reason to be upset.

Kaden

Taryius said:

even if it is for the Staff because the intuitive thing to do would be to barge into the TT's home, kick all their stuff down and try to make off with the Staff.

Yeah I think this is spot on a good intuition, and the admin said they were prepared to go that route, yet no one did. And I think, having been in the same perspective, a lot of that was out of fear. We saw the Tsol'teth in their full power decimate their enemies, and not wanting to lose more is a real fear. But that is good event and villain writing, not bad.

I actually don't think the coalition was afraid to go in and more like the thread wasn't completely picked up because it's the kind of thing that needed admin support and there were 100 other things going on? Part of the complaints being bandied about is that a lot of attempts to orchestrate things either didn't get picked up by the needed admin support or just fizzled out mid-way and a sort of general admittedly self-defeating notion by the player leadership that it wasn't really an avenue the admin side were willing to explore, but I think the more active leaders would know more about that than me and the nitty-gritty of why things fell apart as far as this avenue was concerned is probably something other people would be in a better position to examine. 

Ictinus

I'm not going to get into the nitty gritty specifics, except to say that in terms of wanting a compelling, absolute argument from Gods ICly: this virtually never happens except in the clear cut theocracies like Mhaldor and Targossas, or in the context of their orders.

A massive part of the God role is offering guidance in a way that explicitly does not clearly command people (especially whole diverse factions whose identity isn't based on that God alone). While we're very conscious that there is much to be gleaned from this event going forward, any misinterpretation or failure to communicate is ultimately in the hands of those receiving the advice.

Keorin

I don't think anyone is saying that we needed a godrole to step in and tell us what to do. Obviously, that's not the sort of thing that happens.

But some sort of clearer indication on the admin side that the games were the final part of this chapter of the event, that the result of the games would be the -only- thing that had an effect on the plotline, that weeks of player investment was going to culminate here? That might have been nice to have some indication of, when so many signs felt like they were pointing in a different direction. 99% of what was happening at the end was getting announced through OOC roles on the announce boards anyways, would it really have killed things to give a hint there for the less intelligent among us?

Like I said, I'm perfectly willing to accept that I was just too stupid to understand what was going on or to engage with this event properly. I failed, in character and out, and I suppose that all I can do is regret believing that there could be any other conclusion.

Farrah

I am hearing a lot of "tell us exactly what to do and we'll do it." That's not really how any events go, or even how things in theocracies usually go. Like Taryius said, the Staff wasn't really the "sole" thing you could do. It was one option, and would've resulted in a different removal of Tide and possibly something else at the end. But I'm not sure that means "beating the Tsol'teth" anymore than taking Cyrene back was "beating the Tsol'teth." It's just one move in a long period of ongoing conflict.

And re: the "war" not being expected to end. It depends a little on what you consider the war. I assume everyone who is opposed to the Tsol'teth is going to continue to be opposed to the Tsol'teth. If you define the war based on the Tsol'teth's own objectives and campaign, it was over prior to the games. They announced that they had completed their objectives and won, publically.

You are being too hard on yourself, though. You didn't "fail" anything. You didn't acquire something that would've made things go slightly differently. But the Tide is gone either way. Who cares?

Tiax

Ictinus said:

While we're very conscious that there is much to be gleaned from this event going forward, any misinterpretation or failure to communicate is ultimately in the hands of those receiving the advice.

Yes but that leaves those of us who did not hear the communication at the mercy of whichever players happened to be logged in at the right time.  Any failure on their part to spread the word still leaves us left out.  It doesn't really matter whose fault it ultimately is - if that information doesn't reach me, I'm gonna have a bad time.  Knowing other players had access to the information doesn't really make me feel any better.

Torinn

And?  That's a failure on the player's part and the leadership's part.  Hold them accountable.

Stheno

I'm just sad we didn't march on the Underrealm. Bain'maal was raring for a big fight when we spoke, I stumbled across something, called Mhaldor to arms, and tried to incite the same fire in other cities, but ultimately failed in rallying the Overhordes. It's harder to tell everyone to march and convince them I'm not being villainous. Inevitably, the breadth of avenues being explored meant others fell to the wayside. Can we march still?

Instructions were clear: fetch the Staff from heathen hands. We had three strong contenders, and could've backed one of them if the Mhaldorian zeitgeist wasn't "each to his own Strength". I'm glad they all competed at their best.

Never a dull moment!

Tiax

Torinn said:

And?  That's a failure on the player's part and the leadership's part.  Hold them accountable.

That seems to require me to act on information obtained OOC

Telendrieth

Now that I'm home and happily kept everyone alive today.. I can do a bit more than just read.

Cyrene got taken, population destroyed, and had been slogging through this event like we had been pulling OT every week non stop. Because as much as Cyrene gets absolutely shit upon, Cyrene takes certain aspects of roleplay way more seriously than others. Our roleplay doesn't require combat or religious polarization to be damn important to us. Cyrene as a whole does way better against NPC foes than PC foes.. and oh boy did the garden do a spectacular job of hard polarizing a faction. Like.. we've seen the roleplay of other citystates put aside for the greater good.. but the garden did a fucking -stunning- job of turning Cyrene hard against the Tsol'teth. Which also meant I personally was more keen on blowing up their spawning vats and watching the Tsol bleed for their atrocities than I was in entering a damn foozle contest at their behest. 

As for the posts and nudges from the admin, I'm going to be brutally honest there. It's entirely up to how it was interpreted. At the time, I personally got the feel like the event was overplayed a bit and it wasn't expected that Cyrene would go hard starship troopers and "The only good bug is a dead bug" into everything. So, to ME at least, the nudges honestly felt more like "Oh god we kinda screwed up, how can we try and get people okay with the games.. because we kinda didn't expect it to end up so polarized." Which.. IN THEIR DEFENSE the garden probably didn't have Tesha insurance so that whole situation they found themselves in.. was kinda a shitty/crazy/"drowning in retardation screaming" one.

Keorin

Farrah said:

Mak and Ictinus's comments aside, I do think you're latching onto the admin defined "victory" too much now. You chose to take a different path, and it's not really inherently worse. You stuck to your ideals. The Tide is gone anyway. You don't even know exactly what you would've accomplished with the Staff. I think it's clear there was some indication that a greater victory against the Tsol'teth themselves would be achieved with the Staff (Icti kind of just proved that). But it doesn't really change the positive aspects of what you did. You get to say forevermore that you didn't give in to the Tsol'teth, which seemed to me to be what Cyrene wanted given what they were saying the whole time.

It just so happened that you could not do as much "damage" to them without sacrificing some of your desires. You can make your own victory. I think anyone who thought they could stubbornly follow their emotions rather than logic and still achieve the optimal result was ignoring the evidence though. It's a fine IC path to take, but there's also a reason two cities allied with the Tsol'teth in the first place.

You have to accept that some goals might be too tall of orders. The Tsol'teth don't truedie. They have a god. They have two cities allied with them. You should probably consider them more like a player city than a group of denizens meant to just be defeated. That is, you don't expect to just eradicate Mhaldor permanently. Have to consider them somewhat the same way.

They are now withdrawn, though. Cyrene has its sovereignty back. The Tide is gone. And Cyrene paved its own path. I don't think any of that really has to be taken as a "loss."

Just as a last note here, I didn't choose shit. I pushed for Cyrene to be allowed to compete and do more to affect the staff outcome, fought against the rest of the senate on it, and then failed to muster the votes in the last-ditch referendum I managed to get set up. I badly wanted to be able to personally compete, and the only choice I made there was failing to sway the government into allowing it, and not wanting to quit the damned city over it when it wasn't.

Independently of that, I'd also decided to try and run an alternative set of games, which I got a lot of wonderful volunteers from the city to help with, but which Cyrene's government played no part in. Unfortunately, they tired me out enough that I failed to engage in the politiking necessary to -have- a choice on whether to participate. So I guess you could say it ended up being mutually exclusive, but if I'd known that, I sure as shit wouldn't have gone through with it.

No one wants clear instructions on what to do. People just want to have the knowledge they need to -make- a meaningful choice at the end of an event that they're invested in.

But if you can't understand why, after weeks of fighting tide, pushing plot threads, and everything else, that having none of that have any impact, let alone any kind of narrative payoff, might be just a bit frustrating, then I don't know what to say. A lot of us were keeping going and holding out on the assumption that what we were doing might, you know, matter. That there would be some kind of different result if we kept at it than if we logged off or sat out the entire damned event. Having achieved -any- sort of win condition would be a huge difference to the overall narrative, and I'm really not sure how you can say otherwise. Or was winning the staff as meaningless to you and your faction as you're saying it should be for us?

I was too stupid to understand the situation that, from what I'm getting from this thread, apparently any other player in the game would have understood properly. I directly undermined my IC and OOC goals at every turn. I put time and effort and everything else into trying to have some effect on things, only to be told that I was too dumb to actually do anything that I wanted, and I could have logged out weeks ago and everything would have ended the same way. And apparently, I should have understood all this from the start. Or, in the words of admin and other players:

Ictinus said:

any misinterpretation or failure to communicate is ultimately in the hands of those receiving the advice.

Torinn said:

And?  That's a failure on the player's part and the leadership's part.  Hold them accountable.

Failure seems to be an appropriate word.

Farrah

Never fixate on the result too much OOCly. It's a game and factions don't get obliterated utterly very often. Most things players do don't in general have the kind of impact you seem to desire. It's the journey that's fun. If you didn't enjoy what you were doing, you should've tried to find a way to make it more enjoyable imo. If you did enjoy it, why does it matter what the result was?

Armali

Makarios said:

* From an ooc perspective, the Cyrene playerbase have historically been very resilient, and we knew this was going to be a tough one. This was a factor in discussion.

Maybe the big mistake was this, judging by the complaints on the forums.

Jurixe

I feel that a lot of people are (intentionally or otherwise) dismissing the frustration of the Coalition players over what happened with this event. Granted, their posts are understandably wrapped in an upset tone, but try to put yourselves in their shoes for a moment.

It's very easy to say that if it were you, you'd definitely have seen the signs, you'd definitely have done X and Y and the outcome would have been better etc. Coalition should have done X, Y is the person to blame, how could you guys have missed Z, etc. But the point here is it wasn't you having to make those decisions, it was them, and how you would have reacted is irrelevant. They are the ones who have to deal with the outcomes, and some empathy and understanding would not go amiss here, even if their frustration is manifesting a little aggressively after what, to them, can understandably be seen as a string of disappointments. Telling them 'well you should have done/known' is just salt in the wound at this stage, and while I understand the admin defending what they did do, it probably doesn't make the players feel any better because to them it clearly wasn't enough.

I don't think it's any one person's fault. Perhaps the players could have done better with the information they were given, it's true, and perhaps it was sheer bad luck that the people in charge didn't want to/could not get the support for the decisions that needed to be made for the 'best' outcome. Perhaps the admin could have signposted/nudged the players a little harder when it was clear that they weren't understanding the impact that a potential choice would have. Perhaps they could have been more active with guiding the narrative - if the players are fully aware of a choice's impact and still choose not to take it, that's one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. @Farrah emerging as strong a competitor as she did in the end was also an obstacle no one expected, otherwise the 'Coalition win ending' would have triggered and we wouldn't be here now. Don't get me wrong - full kudos to Farrah and she completely deserves it, just listing the things that 'went wrong' for the Coalition side.

Let me be clear: it was brave and very sporting of the admin to give players as much leeway to affect the event as they did, rolling with some things that happened and trying to accommodate the different pathways being explored which still providing a generally high quality of writing and story progression. It is a tremendous amount of work to have to do on the fly, and they're only human. If there were some balls dropped as a result, that's just unfortunate but as they've repeatedly said, they'll reflect on what happened and work on it moving forward. I'm sure that their ultimate goal is player enjoyment, and they'll do their best to make an event everyone has fun with. No event runner enjoys hearing people complain about how their event sucked for whatever reason.

I have little to no investment in this development, but I can understand completely how the players who were invested feel about being told 'everything you did wasn't enough because it wasn't the Right Thing'. And it certainly wasn't for lack of trying to do something, rather perhaps they were trying to do too many things and needed more direct...well, direction. Their complaint here isn't that they lost this part of the story, it's more that they didn't know where to go/whether anything they were doing was the right thing because denizens weren't responding, and so felt helpless/like they were going nowhere. I did see the Neraeos CT, but perhaps having that reinforced from the multiple avenues being pursued would have made all the difference.

There are many lessons to be taken here by all parties and hopefully we'll see how that all works together to create a better experience as the story continues to develop. Coalition players, I would strongly encourage you to take some time off from this narrative for a while (as that, I believe, is what ending the Tide was meant to do for everyone) and give yourself some time to recover from that investment. The Coalition have 'lost' the first chapter, but there could be many more chapters. Much like a choose your own adventure story, you only feel the full impact of your choices as the story progresses, and you have made some very bold and very brave ones. They may not have resulted in the outcome you wanted right now, but that certainly doesn't mean that they didn't have an impact or that they might not ultimately be the right choices in the end. It can be difficult while emotions are high and while you are dealing with burnout, but try not to take this 'loss' personally, and don't dwell on it. Rather, recover and look forward. 

Have faith. We are all here to create a good experience. 

Asmodron

Jurixe said:

I feel that a lot of people are (intentionally or otherwise) dismissing the frustration of the Coalition players over what happened with this event. 

I feel if you're stating this, then you havent really bothered to read the posts and are just jumping to defend once again.

What the players have brought up are logical retorts to the rather aggresive claims made by Coalition players that they had no signs and that they had no control in the matter.

Jurixe said:

I have little to no investment in this development

I have to call your bluff on this. You were one of the biggest and loudest advocates of the games and coalition. Your forum history alone shows that as well did your actions in the game. You most definitely had an emotional investment in all this which would definitely be considered in any statement you made afterwards.

Jurixe

Asmodron said:

Jurixe said:

I feel that a lot of people are (intentionally or otherwise) dismissing the frustration of the Coalition players over what happened with this event. 

I feel if you're stating this, then you havent really bothered to read the posts and are just jumping to defend once again.

What the players have brought up are logical retorts to the rather aggresive claims made by Coalition players that they had no signs and that they had no control in the matter.

Jurixe said:

I have little to no investment in this development

I have to call your bluff on this. You were one of the biggest and loudest advocates of the games and coalition. Your forum history alone shows that as well did your actions in the game. You most definitely had an emotional investment in all this which would definitely be considered in any statement you made afterwards.

I have never said the players were not giving logical retorts, simply that I feel some of them are glossing over the understandable frustrations of the Coalition players. They are not mutually exclusive, and I have not named the players.

I am not invested in the Tsol'teth story whatsoever, having had no involvement. I did advocate the games but that was from my position as an event runner. I think it was great that someone held world games, because I am a proponent of player-led world events, and I wholeheartedly support any such push. It doesn't matter to me whether the Games ended up having any effect on the storyline and to be frank, I didn't think it would. My comments are purely as a neutral observer who has spent no time on anything remotely related to the Tsol'teth story itself, but well understands the feelings of burnout and the possible challenges that the event runners may have come up against. Simply trying to offer perspectives on what I can see from both sides; whether anyone puts any stock in that is up to them.

Skye

Are you seriously picking a fight with Jurixe of all people, what is wrong with you? Her entire involvement was based on her position as a showrunner for the Asterian Restoration, which has always been prided on neutrality regardless of alignment. They let everyone compete in those games, even Targ and Hashan, even though it would've been perfectly acceptable not to.

And they worked really hard on it, if there's any investment it's to creating something that *everyone* could have enjoyed with no strings attached.

edit: if anything, I wish their efforts could've been acknowledged better, but I get there were way too many eggs in the basket as it were from the admin side. But they offered whatever support was asked of them.

Keorin

Farrah said:

Never fixate on the result too much OOCly. It's a game and factions don't get obliterated utterly very often. Most things players do don't in general have the kind of impact you seem to desire. It's the journey that's fun. If you didn't enjoy what you were doing, you should've tried to find a way to make it more enjoyable imo. If you did enjoy it, why does it matter what the result was?

In the last black wave, the tide was pushed back through the work of players, who were given the tools to solve the problem, and then the Tsol'teth were sealed in a battle we all took part in.

In the elemental event, the rampaging elementals and conduits were solved through the work of players, who gathered orbs, engaged with elemental factions, and got to take part in events to seal them.

In this event, we got a deus ex machinca, because apparently, after IG years of saying that their hands were tied, that they couldn't do anything to act against the Tsol'teth, they shouted some and the Tsol'teth packed up and went home. All anyone is saying is that this would have been a -lot- more satisfying if the coalition had gotten to make a difference here.

Let's be fair here: this isn't just about the results of the event; a lot of people have been expressing for weeks that this event was frustrating, that we felt railroaded, that endlessly fighting the tide sucked and had awful mechanics, that we felt that the choices we were being forced to make weren't fun, that the way the games were run was adding insult to injury, ect. Like, this thread and rants have been pointing out that things haven't been fun since nearly the start of this event; some of us have just been holding out hope that how things ended would justify some of the bad stuff along the way. Instead, this event ended how every other part of it has gone: with anyone who didn't side with the Tsol'teth doing a lot of work, seeing it go nowhere, watching as those who sided with the Tsol'teth getting attention and rewards, and watching the event progress through things that none of us had any power over.

As for "trying to find a way to make it more enjoyable", that's literally what I spent the entire damned event doing, just to have it fail or backfire on me in the end. Because apparently, being able to take a bigger part in this event like we were hoping for relied solely on me correctly interpreting one ct message at the end of a 20 minute conversation made when I was sleep deprived and trying to finish posts at 9 in the morning, and then running with that one message and getting it on every newsboard and preaching it to the world because it sure as heck couldn't have been hinted anywhere else in the game. Which is a bit more of a challenge when you're already trying your hardest to make everything more enjoyable.

This is all to say: I really am glad for everyone who did enjoy this event, who felt like it was rewarding and that all the steps from beginning to end were fun. But it's a little frustrating to hear so many people suggest that because -you- had fun, it's clearly everyone else's fault that we didn't. Different factions had a very different experience of this event, based on having very, very different parts to play in it. It wasn't all good or all bad, but I feel like it's worth mentioning the parts that were frustrating and not terribly fun, in the hopes that hey, maybe next time things could be a bit better.

Tahquil

All frustrations about this debacle is gone now. Seeing Asmodron trying to holier-than-thou Jurixe makes it worth.

Melodie

Asmodron said:

Jurixe said:

I feel that a lot of people are (intentionally or otherwise) dismissing the frustration of the Coalition players over what happened with this event. 

I feel if you're stating this, then you havent really bothered to read the posts and are just jumping to defend once again.

What the players have brought up are logical retorts to the rather aggresive claims made by Coalition players that they had no signs and that they had no control in the matter.

Jurixe said:

I have little to no investment in this development

I have to call your bluff on this. You were one of the biggest and loudest advocates of the games and coalition. Your forum history alone shows that as well did your actions in the game. You most definitely had an emotional investment in all this which would definitely be considered in any statement you made afterwards.

Are you seriously calling out the person who has been one of the main well-known mortal event runners in Achaea, because she supported someone's efforts? And because she's trying to appeal to people to not just gloss over the (very understandable) frustrations of a group of people who have run into multiple issues along the way and are generally dealing with low morale?

Get over yourself.

[Deleted User]

Shit hol' up.

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Okay continue.

Adrik

Okay. I have no clue what is going on in this thread anymore but.

Do not shit on Jurixe. Jurixe is a fucking great person, and an absolute blessing on this game.

Archaeon

        

Ictinus

Let's get this back on the topic please.