@Synthus Why Cyrene was the demonstration has been repeated ad nauseum icly. Cyrene organize the coalition during the second wave and had a preeminent role there. In addition, they hosted Parni, which has an abiding hate for the Tsolteth. And then Eril topped it off with his post.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
Has everything that could be discovered in the two fortresses been discovered? Did we miss anything that could have affected how things went in one way or the other?
I don't know the answer to this one. I'll leave it for someone who has a more intimate knowledge of the builds.
Has everything that could be discovered in the two fortresses been discovered? Did we miss anything that could have affected how things went in one way or the other?
Uh, when we tried to orchestrate that, given how non-responsive the Underrealm is, we ... didn't get much of a response. It was the original goal for contacting Hycanthus, but that got railroaded in a different direction so we assumed it wasn't an option on the table.
* Ashtan actually stumbled on one that made a very significant impact in the raid to try to seize their guardian. I will not expand on what exactly that was, but they know!
I gotta say. Sometimes the alternate paths that are said to be available feel like trying to get a response from denizens in a quest. You can work damned hard, you can try a ton of different things, you can think of interesting ways that things -could- work...but you didn't work out the single appropriate syntax/step, and so you get complete and total silence.
Uh, when we tried to orchestrate that, given how non-responsive the Underrealm is, we ... didn't get much of a response. It was the original goal for contacting Hycanthus, but that got railroaded in a different direction so we assumed it wasn't an option on the table.
* Ashtan actually stumbled on one that made a very significant impact in the raid to try to seize their guardian. I will not expand on what exactly that was, but they know!
...we do?
*The scouring of saved logs is heard across the land*
@Makarios I'd like to put forth one of the first questions I had with this event as well as two more. There are many others I have, but I'll have to take time to compose them into something other than rambling gibberish.
1. From a mechanics perspective, what led you guys to decide that cutting off Cyrene from the players was an option on the table? Why was blocking players from accessing one of their central hubs for a period of two weeks considered to be an acceptable consequence of any lose condition for this event?
2. Why Cyrene for the demonstration? I don't understand the strategic value it held for the Tsol'teth.
3. As the event moved on, was there every any outcome that would have resulted in any other Coalition city to suffer the same sort of occupation or devastation that Cyrene was subjected to?
1. This is not the first time this has been done to an organisation and very well might not be the last. Big events such as these are infrequent enough that disruption tends to be something we consider acceptable. That said, we did originally predict this to be shorter than two weeks - the timeline did get a bit off course (partly due to the staff acquisition throwing all plans out of whack, partly due to a miscalculation).
2. A lot of the IC reasons were stated further down already so I won't reiterate them, but a couple that were missed: * Cyrene held one of the few guardians remaining that the Tsol'teth baddly wanted to get samples from. * Cyrene is actually one of the most defendable cities from a lore perspective. Without the litany, it would've been very hard for the Tsol'teth to do what they did - so they needed to do Cyrene first so that particular ace was a complete surprise. * As a neutral actor Cyrene was the most likely org to rally the others into a coalition. * From an ooc perspective, the Cyrene playerbase have historically been very resilient, and we knew this was going to be a tough one. This was a factor in discussion.
3. I touched on this in a response to Asmodron's post, but absolutely. We actually expected at least two more to go through an attempted Conquest. We actually were all geared up for the Targossas one then it didn't happen.
Did it make a difference (or will it? Not sure if it's over) which side got the Staff? (Tsol'teth allies or Coalition)
Basically I'm curious about any possible tangents / other routes the story might have went on, if we'd done something differently.
The staff would have enabled a very significant win in addition to the tide removal. The nature of that win we would have left in the hands of the staff winner (with some caveats).
Uh, when we tried to orchestrate that, given how non-responsive the Underrealm is, we ... didn't get much of a response. It was the original goal for contacting Hycanthus, but that got railroaded in a different direction so we assumed it wasn't an option on the table.
* Ashtan actually stumbled on one that made a very significant impact in the raid to try to seize their guardian. I will not expand on what exactly that was, but they know!
...we do?
I'll rephrase, we expected a banned of murderer's to go and try to enlighten Bain'maal and make him go on a rampage. I'm not 100% on the Hycanthus plotline so I won't answer that (because I might be wrong).
I was refering to the litany immunity and changing all the guards to chaos ones in my post, but someone posted it anyway so I suppose its public knowledge! I can't overstate how significant a change that was, however. The planned use of the litany would've been devastating for Ashtan if it had worked.
Aside from the fairly obvious downsides from the tide spreading, was there ever a win condition (or gear shift) if the Tide engulfed a certain percentage of Sapience?
What would've happened had tide got far into a city to actually erect a Meld Shrine?
What was the process for choosing who's shadows eradicated barriers?
With deus shards not playing a critical role this time around for (obvious) reasons... Will some of the abilities that were gained through them be attainable through the current Avatar status that orders have? (Deuc's awesome radiance, or Babel Pit, for instance)
1. Do you guys have any plans for fonts and guardians of the 3 cities that got invaded? I love lasting impacts but sadly these all have pretty huge mechanical benefits that are needed for a lot of city things (tanks mainly).
2. Was the 2nd earthquake right after Mhaldor discovered the cracked foundation stone in the Underrealm just lucky chance, or was someone watching from the sidelines?
3. Can we get a Tsol'teth killcount, we still need to see who got the most instakills off on them!
While this event has been frustrating at times from Coalition raids to silence from denizens I definitely like the feeling of fear, dread and intrigue the Tsol'teth conjure up, love to see how the Tsol'teth continue to unravel they are more than an event now!
Was there a path that would have seen the barrier reconstructed? What will happen to the shards now?
The chance of the barrier reconstructing was exceedingly slim for a few reasons: * Yudhishthira paid off his debt to Targossas making it the first time. He'd be disinclined for several reasons to do it again. * The big thing about the barrier working the first time was all the Tsol'teth were on the inside when it went up (due to a combination of their big names working on raising the Genesis and the Achaean push + Parni getting the three Tsol'teth back down in the Underrealm). * They'd probably just not fall for the same trick twice.
That said, I won't say it was impossible, but we couldn't see a reasonable way for it to happen. A player might have seen something we'd missed though.
1) The solution that was ultimately presented to deal with the
litanied Cyrenian guards wound up being very destructive. Were there other
options being considered (and rejected), or were you actually originally
prepared to let them guard-bash their way into the city?
2)
This one's mostly out of my own curiousity: I was given an item for my
mission, which I placed specifically as per instruction for fear of
failure. Would it have been possible, with different placement, to also
have freed the blocked up tunnel?
3)
- If Hashan had refused another city would've been asked. Once one city
had allied with the Tsol'teth, further rejections would've met with the
same situation that befell Cyrene. So in Targossas case, if they'd said
no we'd have invaded straight away.
What was the contingency if no city had opted to ally with the Tsol'teth? Just invade everything?
4)
we expected a banned of murderer's to go and try to enlighten Bain'maal and make him go on a rampage.
Not a question but an opinion: I think I get the feeling that nobody
wanted to mount the incursion to murder Bain'maal because the Tsol'teth
have notoriously not been fair opponents (all the god-travelling while locked was probably the thing that pissed people off).
I know a lot of players
felt like fighting the Tsol'teth player shells weren't so much ' fair
challenge' as it was just a categoric beat-down of plot convenience
given that they weren't just 'nearly impossible to kill' but also
attained the gift of rebirth so they 'wouldn't stay dead' after all the
effort.
I get that the Tsol'teth are not supposed to be easy opponents by any means, they're a work of continuous genetic perfection living in hard conditions etc etc, but I think the general sentiment was that admin weren't going to let the Tsol'teth lose in a melee and were willing to use cheats to ensure it.
It was an endeavour of high risk with no guarantee of reward, and failure in the UR itself would've resulted in a full sampling of Sapience's best.
5) Any chance of releasing Sojourn as a minigame to the general public?
1. Do you guys have any plans for fonts and guardians of the 3 cities that got invaded? I love lasting impacts but sadly these all have pretty huge mechanical benefits that are needed for a lot of city things (tanks mainly).
2. Was the 2nd earthquake right after Mhaldor discovered the cracked foundation stone in the Underrealm just lucky chance, or was someone watching from the sidelines?
3. Can we get a Tsol'teth killcount, we still need to see who got the most instakills off on them!
While this event has been frustrating at times from Coalition raids to silence from denizens I definitely like the feeling of fear, dread and intrigue the Tsol'teth conjure up, love to see how the Tsol'teth continue to unravel they are more than an event now!
1. We do have plans for these going forward, and there are additional lasting impacts from this that will remain regardless of any rebuilding effort (already in the game in fact if you know where to look!)
2. Someone was watching, but it was going to be blown up anyway.
3. Nope! This one you can definitely piece together already though.
Aside from the fairly obvious downsides from the tide spreading, was there ever a win condition (or gear shift) if the Tide engulfed a certain percentage of Sapience?
What would've happened had tide got far into a city to actually erect a Meld Shrine?
What was the process for choosing who's shadows eradicated barriers?
With deus shards not playing a critical role this time around for (obvious) reasons... Will some of the abilities that were gained through them be attainable through the current Avatar status that orders have? (Deuc's awesome radiance, or Babel Pit, for instance)
Gear shift, yes.
Very bad things. Conquest would've been very close after this happening and it would have been much harder to defend than the already difficult standard kind.
I'm unsure on this one. I recall the discussion for Cyrene but obviously missed the Ashtan/Mhaldor ones, so I'll defer that to someone else.
No plans for the avatar powers to return. They were intentionally ridiculously op and will probably remain just as a part of that event - never say never though!
1) The solution that was ultimately presented to deal with the
litanied Cyrenian guards wound up being very destructive. Were there other
options being considered (and rejected), or were you actually originally
prepared to let them guard-bash their way into the city?
2)
This one's mostly out of my own curiousity: I was given an item for my
mission, which I placed specifically as per instruction for fear of
failure. Would it have been possible, with different placement, to also
have freed the blocked up tunnel?
3)
- If Hashan had refused another city would've been asked. Once one city
had allied with the Tsol'teth, further rejections would've met with the
same situation that befell Cyrene. So in Targossas case, if they'd said
no we'd have invaded straight away.
What was the contingency if no city had opted to ally with the Tsol'teth? Just invade everything?
4)
we expected a banned of murderer's to go and try to enlighten Bain'maal and make him go on a rampage.
Not a question but an opinion: I think I get the feeling that nobody
wanted to mount the incursion to murder Bain'maal because the Tsol'teth
have notoriously not been fair opponents (all the god-travelling while locked was probably the thing that pissed people off).
I know a lot of players
felt like fighting the Tsol'teth player shells weren't so much ' fair
challenge' as it was just a categoric beat-down of plot convenience
given that they weren't just 'nearly impossible to kill' but also
attained the gift of rebirth so they 'wouldn't stay dead' after all the
effort.
I get that the Tsol'teth are not supposed to be easy opponents by any means, they're a work of continuous genetic perfection living in hard conditions etc etc, but I think the general sentiment was that admin weren't going to let the Tsol'teth lose in a melee and were willing to use cheats to ensure it.
It was an endeavour of high risk with no guarantee of reward, and failure in the UR itself would've resulted in a full sampling of Sapience's best.
5) Any chance of releasing Sojourn as a minigame to the general public?
1. We would've gone with this if it'd been the route people decided to go down.
2. I don't know this one, deferred!
3. Yes.
4. There is a fundamental weakness with the Tsol'teth's most infuriating power. This is very publicly stated in game, and this was something I personally expected to be exploited ruthlessly.
When do we get to meet Tsol'tesha and Tsol'talkez! Or does their mystery science thing just go straight to the meld? Maybe that's a lore question, sorry!
Comments
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
I don't know the answer to this one. I'll leave it for someone who has a more intimate knowledge of the builds.
Chaos entities are canonically immune to the litany of obedience. It just so happens certain Ashtani guards are chaos entities.
When does Targ get the promised rewards Ama mentioned in her post?
Did I ever have a chance of actually achieving “okay/decent student” status?
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
1. This is not the first time this has been done to an organisation and very well might not be the last. Big events such as these are infrequent enough that disruption tends to be something we consider acceptable. That said, we did originally predict this to be shorter than two weeks - the timeline did get a bit off course (partly due to the staff acquisition throwing all plans out of whack, partly due to a miscalculation).
2. A lot of the IC reasons were stated further down already so I won't reiterate them, but a couple that were missed:
* Cyrene held one of the few guardians remaining that the Tsol'teth baddly wanted to get samples from.
* Cyrene is actually one of the most defendable cities from a lore perspective. Without the litany, it would've been very hard for the Tsol'teth to do what they did - so they needed to do Cyrene first so that particular ace was a complete surprise.
* As a neutral actor Cyrene was the most likely org to rally the others into a coalition.
* From an ooc perspective, the Cyrene playerbase have historically been very resilient, and we knew this was going to be a tough one. This was a factor in discussion.
3. I touched on this in a response to Asmodron's post, but absolutely. We actually expected at least two more to go through an attempted Conquest. We actually were all geared up for the Targossas one then it didn't happen.
The staff would have enabled a very significant win in addition to the tide removal. The nature of that win we would have left in the hands of the staff winner (with some caveats).
I'll rephrase, we expected a banned of murderer's to go and try to enlighten Bain'maal and make him go on a rampage. I'm not 100% on the Hycanthus plotline so I won't answer that (because I might be wrong).
I was refering to the litany immunity and changing all the guards to chaos ones in my post, but someone posted it anyway so I suppose its public knowledge! I can't overstate how significant a change that was, however. The planned use of the litany would've been devastating for Ashtan if it had worked.
The above is correct, this particular ability in telepathy is lost. That's not to say it couldn't be rediscovered, however.
1. You'll have to find that out in game.
2. Lol no.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Aside from the fairly obvious downsides from the tide spreading, was there ever a win condition (or gear shift) if the Tide engulfed a certain percentage of Sapience?
What would've happened had tide got far into a city to actually erect a Meld Shrine?
What was the process for choosing who's shadows eradicated barriers?
With deus shards not playing a critical role this time around for (obvious) reasons... Will some of the abilities that were gained through them be attainable through the current Avatar status that orders have? (Deuc's awesome radiance, or Babel Pit, for instance)
2. Was the 2nd earthquake right after Mhaldor discovered the cracked foundation stone in the Underrealm just lucky chance, or was someone watching from the sidelines?
3. Can we get a Tsol'teth killcount, we still need to see who got the most instakills off on them!
While this event has been frustrating at times from Coalition raids to silence from denizens I definitely like the feeling of fear, dread and intrigue the Tsol'teth conjure up, love to see how the Tsol'teth continue to unravel they are more than an event now!
The chance of the barrier reconstructing was exceedingly slim for a few reasons:
* Yudhishthira paid off his debt to Targossas making it the first time. He'd be disinclined for several reasons to do it again.
* The big thing about the barrier working the first time was all the Tsol'teth were on the inside when it went up (due to a combination of their big names working on raising the Genesis and the Achaean push + Parni getting the three Tsol'teth back down in the Underrealm).
* They'd probably just not fall for the same trick twice.
That said, I won't say it was impossible, but we couldn't see a reasonable way for it to happen. A player might have seen something we'd missed though.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
3)
2. Someone was watching, but it was going to be blown up anyway.
3. Nope! This one you can definitely piece together already though.
Gear shift, yes.
Very bad things. Conquest would've been very close after this happening and it would have been much harder to defend than the already difficult standard kind.
I'm unsure on this one. I recall the discussion for Cyrene but obviously missed the Ashtan/Mhaldor ones, so I'll defer that to someone else.
No plans for the avatar powers to return. They were intentionally ridiculously op and will probably remain just as a part of that event - never say never though!
1. We would've gone with this if it'd been the route people decided to go down.
2. I don't know this one, deferred!
3. Yes.
4. There is a fundamental weakness with the Tsol'teth's most infuriating power. This is very publicly stated in game, and this was something I personally expected to be exploited ruthlessly.
5. We are discussing this.
i'm a rebel
It depends on the means. If it was IC, absolutely fine!