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Transmutation Revamp

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  • KhaibitKhaibit Posts: 367Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Minifie said:
    Khaibit said:
    Antonius said:
    Minifie said:
    Antonius said:
    I'm sure it's annoying that you can't just run through one easy to get to area and make a load of whatever mineral you want to, but a lot of the things people are complaining about are things harvesters have always had to deal with.
    Harvesters never had to /afk in a lab for hours either, still don't think any problems between the two are comparable.
    They're now functionally identical in a lot of ways, so of course some problems are comparable because they're shared by both.

    Some of the best harvesting areas are through the wilderness or on Meropis. Some of the best harvesting areas have strong aggressive denizens. Options for fast travel and the ability to tank (or kill) strong denizens have been required to harvest at maximum efficiency for a long time, so it's not an issue that needs to be fixed for Transmutation.
    How many of the 'best harvesting' areas have only 1 type of plant though? 
    they both show up in rooms now, which makes both "functionally identical".
    I.. don't even know what you mean by this comment and how it fits with mine


  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,904Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Khaibit said:
    Minifie said:
    Khaibit said:
    Antonius said:
    Minifie said:
    Antonius said:
    I'm sure it's annoying that you can't just run through one easy to get to area and make a load of whatever mineral you want to, but a lot of the things people are complaining about are things harvesters have always had to deal with.
    Harvesters never had to /afk in a lab for hours either, still don't think any problems between the two are comparable.
    They're now functionally identical in a lot of ways, so of course some problems are comparable because they're shared by both.

    Some of the best harvesting areas are through the wilderness or on Meropis. Some of the best harvesting areas have strong aggressive denizens. Options for fast travel and the ability to tank (or kill) strong denizens have been required to harvest at maximum efficiency for a long time, so it's not an issue that needs to be fixed for Transmutation.
    How many of the 'best harvesting' areas have only 1 type of plant though? 
    they both show up in rooms now, which makes both "functionally identical".
    I.. don't even know what you mean by this comment and how it fits with mine
    Was tongue and cheek at antonius' calling them functionally similar, considering I made a lot of gold harvesting in my few years in eleusis and there were shiteloads of places you could pick from safely, albeit I know not of the current mineral areas (though it isn't worth my time to go picking minerals).


    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Taryius says, "Oops, thats not a foray. Thats two novices going at it in the wilderness."
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,500Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Minifie said:
    Khaibit said:
    Minifie said:
    Khaibit said:
    Antonius said:
    Minifie said:
    Antonius said:
    I'm sure it's annoying that you can't just run through one easy to get to area and make a load of whatever mineral you want to, but a lot of the things people are complaining about are things harvesters have always had to deal with.
    Harvesters never had to /afk in a lab for hours either, still don't think any problems between the two are comparable.
    They're now functionally identical in a lot of ways, so of course some problems are comparable because they're shared by both.

    Some of the best harvesting areas are through the wilderness or on Meropis. Some of the best harvesting areas have strong aggressive denizens. Options for fast travel and the ability to tank (or kill) strong denizens have been required to harvest at maximum efficiency for a long time, so it's not an issue that needs to be fixed for Transmutation.
    How many of the 'best harvesting' areas have only 1 type of plant though? 
    they both show up in rooms now, which makes both "functionally identical".
    I.. don't even know what you mean by this comment and how it fits with mine
    Was tongue and cheek at antonius' calling them functionally similar, considering I made a lot of gold harvesting in my few years in eleusis and there were shiteloads of places you could pick from safely, albeit I know not of the current mineral areas (though it isn't worth my time to go picking minerals).
    Harvesting: You go to a room with the plant you want, you enter the harvest command, you (might) get some of that plant.
    Transmutation: You go to a room with the mineral you want, you enter the extract command, you (might) get some of that mineral.

    Some of those rooms will require some effort to get to. Some of those rooms will contain strong aggressive denizens. Some of those rooms will have already been harvested/extracted by other people and you won't be able to get anything from them. The way the two tradeskills function is very similar now, as are the problems they face.

    I'm reserving judgement on the distribution of minerals across areas until I've actually seen a full (or at least reasonably complete) list.
  • KhaibitKhaibit Posts: 367Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    it's a 'might' get minerals, as I have run into many that have already been exhausted and don't give you a mineral


    Zbaco
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,500Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Khaibit said:
    it's a 'might' get minerals, as I have run into many that have already been exhausted and don't give you a mineral
    I suspect there's a rush to restock following the lower than normal mineral generation rates prior to these changes being released, and that that rush is focused primarily on the same known and easy to get to areas.

    It's only been a few days and people are still getting to grips with the new extracting, so I'm not sure you can assume that this is what it will always be like.
  • ZbacoZbaco Posts: 153Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just curious, am I the only one who didn't particularly mind the time in the lab to get minerals? I considered it a fair tradeoff for not having to wander around the world looking for plants. As I rarely (if ever) sell minerals, this allowed me to be quite self-sufficient.
    Locki
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,435Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Did you ever do the math on how much gold you made/saved by being "self-sufficient"?

    You could extract/make minerals for an hour...or you could bash for 15 minutes at unartefacted dragon pace.

    TorinnPrythe
  • ZbacoZbaco Posts: 153Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Nope, never did the math. I usually did my labwork when I was done bashing for the day and needed a break.
    Locki
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited March 15
    I have to change my opinion. So I have explored now and did more extraction and trying to get used to it. Frankly, it is a lot better than before in terms of speed in getting them via the extract command and also not having to sit afk. 

    But I still find issues with magnesium and potash availability,  on main land, particularly large areas ones are lacking, most of what I found are few rooms here and there scattered across areas . Maybe I need to explore even more...

    It is definitely better for self sufficiency, not so sure about business. 
    Rekhyr
  • OzmatiahOzmatiah Posts: 74Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Cooper said:
    Did you ever do the math on how much gold you made/saved by being "self-sufficient"?

    You could extract/make minerals for an hour...or you could bash for 15 minutes at unartefacted dragon pace.

    Need to have something to do when you hit the gold cap, which I never hit, but I guess for some people it would work. Personally the self-sufficient is to just have things to focus on more than just hunting, so exploring to hunt minerals down will be fun for a bit until I find what I need, and til then, the 200 reactants will keep me in what I can't easily find, to replace what I can.

    All in all I like this change.
    Rekhyr
  • CobaultCobault Posts: 90Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    So do the player housing upgrades for natural underground and constructed underground still makes just primes, or..?
    Housing upgrade gonna allow minerals to grow? Will it be pick your mineral or some kinda area dependant lock? Housing upgrade to allow people to have their own lab and generate more freebie reactants per rl day?
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,726Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Cobault
    Ronwe said:

    Skye said:
    @Ronwe Home owners are able to upgrade room environments to constructed and natural underground. I don't own any extractable locations in my subdivision home , but I'm wondering how the changes have affected such rooms. Is there a fixed mineral to be found in homes/cities?

    Just like everywhere else, it should be fixed by area. So which mineral you get will depend on which area your house is in!

    I think it should all be handled, but it's possible that some housing rooms with the right environment might not get minerals. If that happens, please BUG it or message me.



  • IsmayIsmay Posts: 514Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'd be happy if rooms offered more than a single type of mineral, really. Changing some of the easier to access areas from the minerals that are less frequently used to those that are used most often would be a huge help as well.
    Siduri
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    I am curious as to the distribution of minerals in mainland and Meropis, excluding islands and places that are locked away from general access like Temples?
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,726Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    in as far as I can tell, minerals don't spawn in temples. I've been to several, and each indicated no minerals.


    Dochitha
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,500Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    in as far as I can tell, minerals don't spawn in temples. I've been to several, and each indicated no minerals.
    I know of one temple that apparently has minerals. I doubt many of them have underground or mountain rooms though.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,726Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 16
    There aren't, but most of them were older temples of dead gods, but at least one was of a more current god.


  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,928Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Skye said:
    in as far as I can tell, minerals don't spawn in temples. I've been to several, and each indicated no minerals.
    I've found one, but most do not.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    SkyeCede
  • IsmayIsmay Posts: 514Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited March 27
    Ok it’s been a while, and I still loathe this mineral change. There’s rarely any potash aside from 1-2 per room cause the game has a-lot- of extractors. 

    If we’re going to keep the change, and I’m sure we will, at the very very least increase the number of areas and repop amounts for potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum.

    This would go a long way in removing the great frustration and annoyance extractors face now.
    SiduriAugtavian
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,921Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 27
    Edit: Nevermind, I see what you're saying now.
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,928Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ismay said:
    Ok it’s been a while, and I still loathe this mineral change. There’s rarely any potash aside from 1-2 per room cause the game has a-lot- of extractors. 

    If we’re going to keep the change, and I’m sure we will, at the very very least increase the number of areas and repop amounts for potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum.

    This would go a long way in removing the great frustration and annoyance extractors face now.
    I have found plenty of places for the minerals listed above, excluding realgar. Plumbum is particularly easy to obtain right now if you know where to look.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 63Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    edited March 28
    Ismay said:
    Ok it’s been a while, and I still loathe this mineral change. There’s rarely any potash aside from 1-2 per room cause the game has a-lot- of extractors. 

    If we’re going to keep the change, and I’m sure we will, at the very very least increase the number of areas and repop amounts for potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum.

    This would go a long way in removing the great frustration and annoyance extractors face now.
    I'll look at whether repop amounts need to be tweaked this week.

    There are other metrics I want to look at, but to give you an idea of the numbers, there are >10,000 each of unharvested potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum at the moment of my posting here (@Klendathu: realgar has the most unharvested of all of those!).
    Dochitha
  • XadenXaden Posts: 2,312Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ronwe said:
    Ismay said:
    Ok it’s been a while, and I still loathe this mineral change. There’s rarely any potash aside from 1-2 per room cause the game has a-lot- of extractors. 

    If we’re going to keep the change, and I’m sure we will, at the very very least increase the number of areas and repop amounts for potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum.

    This would go a long way in removing the great frustration and annoyance extractors face now.
    I'll look at whether repop amounts need to be tweaked this week.

    There are other metrics I want to look at, but to give you an idea of the numbers, there are >10,000 each of unharvested potash, magnesium, realgar, and plumbum at the moment of my posting here (@Klendathu: realgar has the most unharvested of all of those!).
    Tease :P
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

    RonweCaelanTorinnShirszae
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,928Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Ronwe are all of these rooms accessible? I know there are some collapsed digsites that could yield minerals, but we poor players can't get into them at the moment. Is that skewing the numbers?

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 63Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    Klendathu said:
    @Ronwe are all of these rooms accessible? I know there are some collapsed digsites that could yield minerals, but we poor players can't get into them at the moment. Is that skewing the numbers?
    The numbers are skewed at least a bit, the question is whether they're skewed enough to be the source of the perceived shortage or whether it's an issue of some people not knowing about some accessible locations. I think the latter is likely, especially since feedback from different people has highlighted perceived shortages of different minerals, but I'd like to do an accessibility audit, especially of the high-demand minerals, to make sure.
    DochithaShirszae
  • SiduriSiduri Posts: 1,489Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Klendathu said:
    @Ronwe are all of these rooms accessible? I know there are some collapsed digsites that could yield minerals, but we poor players can't get into them at the moment. Is that skewing the numbers?
    I can spend a few hours redigging a collapsed digsite without incident if amateurs don't come collapse it while I work.

    image
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormPosts: 2,928Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ronwe said:
    Klendathu said:
    @Ronwe are all of these rooms accessible? I know there are some collapsed digsites that could yield minerals, but we poor players can't get into them at the moment. Is that skewing the numbers?
    The numbers are skewed at least a bit, the question is whether they're skewed enough to be the source of the perceived shortage or whether it's an issue of some people not knowing about some accessible locations. I think the latter is likely, especially since feedback from different people has highlighted perceived shortages of different minerals, but I'd like to do an accessibility audit, especially of the high-demand minerals, to make sure.
    If it would be of use, I can share with you my list of rooms I've explored and listed (@Ronwe)

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    Dochitha
  • DochithaDochitha Posts: 1,283Member @ - Epic Achaean
    @ronwe you are awesome!
  • RangorRangor Posts: 3,068Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Keep in mind that accessible minerals/herbs does not necessarily equate to being worth picking compared to time spent. If you pick one in each room it is better to type suicide.
    image
    SiduriIsmay
  • AugtavianAugtavian Posts: 31Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I don't like these changes at all. Maybe in a month or two when we figure out more areas to extract from it'll be better, but I dunno. If the objective was to make extracting more exciting I just don't see it. Maybe if there was a way we could create our own reactants? Having to drop a bunch of gold on reactants because there has been a run on a certain mineral just doesn't feel good. Not to mention I learned extraction during the changes, so couldn't use a skill I paid money to get just compounded my frustration. Having said all that I am still -extremely- appreciative of the work that went into these changes and the staff as a whole. I just don't like change!  
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