Fixing Player Housing

Reyson

How is anyone getting into a house with an eyed entrance that's mono'd, anti-telepathy and anti-prism unless someone helps them out?

Telendrieth

Except everyone in that house is then dead with no assistance and everything in that house is likely stolen as well with no ways to combat it. Plus mechanically it's easy to say "They aren't damaging the city proper, so whatever." But that would pretty much irk the crap out of me knowing that a part of my city was being camped with no real way to do anything about it. This is also assuming they aren't picking up mono, braziering, and dropping mono immediately. 

Reyson

My question is more how are they getting in with the security mentions I listed. Unless the house is all outdoors or something?

Telendrieth

Reyson said:

How is anyone getting into a house with an eyed entrance that's mono'd, anti-telepathy and anti-prism unless someone helps them out?

Because they would have a single room set up to allow prisms and portals likely, and for some reason choose there to afk. But even then man, I don't even know with this house. I'm pretty sure we could lock down the facility and they would somehow find a way to let enemies in.

Reyson

That sounds like a person problem, not a system problem!

Jurixe

You shouldn't worry too much about the follies of other people. It used to be a concern because enemies could attack from the subdivision. But assuming all these changes go in, what is an enemy going to do after they're in besides theft? They could sit there and yell insults, I guess, but everyone will get bored eventually.

You're also discounting the fact that the owner could just as easily get people to group up and bring backup in. If they're disconnected, then the Chancellor or Chancellor aide can force the door open. 

But I think it's making an issue out of nothing - if privacy is changed specifically to just not allow mind reading but still allow mind locking, you can still attack. Of course, I don't know if that works code wise.

Kyrra

You can’t force doors open, can only lock them and CITY LOCK should be a Security thing.

Kogan

Jurixe said:

But I think it's making an issue out of nothing - if privacy is changed specifically to just not allow mind reading but still allow mind locking, you can still attack. Of course, I don't know if that works code wise.

I'm not sure which skill you mean specifically here, but mind listen can be stopped with Anake's hood. Really though the one I find worse than it is sapience. Which will essentially allow them to see what you're sending.

Example:
>say hi
>lol
>msg makarios plz nerf synaptic. thx.


I'm actually not sure on the message one and whether that's seen, but someone can confirm or deny that who has monked more recently. Thing is this can be used for combat or spying so its hard to nerf the skill itself too much. I honestly think it would be fine if it it were changed to show curing commands sent and that's it. As most people use them to track applies outside of room. Sad considering it does have some neat group options that would be lost in that though. Sapience a party leader and you can report their target calls to your own group. Or we could just do the right thing and delete synaptic since it should have never been a thing to begin with. I feel like someone dropped the ball by releasing it.

Skye

citylocking people into a house/indoor rooms when they have no mushroom sigil is one of life's simple pleasures. especially when they start raging at you about abusing mechanics/powers seconds before defender's prisms go through. >_>

Anyway, just some thoughts from this thread and the trainwreck over on quotes:

1) You cannot liken RL home security to IG home security. Going dormant (often through no fault of your own) and having your eye sigils decay isn't really justification for people to break into your house and steal your shit. That's like if you went on a long vacation and someone breaks into your house while the power was out and your alarms aren't working. Imagine if you came home to your house being looted and the cops just shrugged and said 'it's your fault for taking a vacation'.

2) That said, I am thankful to the admin for making a number of bazaar/crated plant items theft-proof by ensuring they can only be picked up by the person who dropped them.

3) I still really really dislike that housing credits are now dependent on commodities. Credits were pricey, but I can't tell you how frustrating it is trying to accumulate the necessary wood for building and upgrades, especially for an OoS sub. A lot of us are sitting on piles of gold that we're more than happy to splurge in one sitting, which would take some of the gold out of the system far more effectively than being bottle-necked by wood production.

4) The subdivision still feels like an early development idea that got carried away. Like, it felt like a good idea when the game population was small. It looks nifty and it was nice when you managed to score a beach or waterfront property. But the fact is that real estate in Achaea is essentially permanent. Once you own it, it's yours for life even if you go dormant. This caused the subdivision to have to be expanded exponentially into this unwieldy giant of meaningless rooms and trekking through what essentially amounts to a player graveyard. I wouldn't feel bad if we reworked it or said goodbye to the subs.

Alrena

I'd love to use my house more. Getting an "ENTER HOUSE x" or something at the subdivisions entrance would be amazing, maybe with a list of all the houses you have permissions to. Name of the house and the owner of the plot would be nice. Alternatively, perhaps room upgrades for a permanent monolith and/or eye sigil effect should be made available.

I'd also like to see wood become a bit more available too. Some upgrades take a loooot of wood. Bashing up the gold can take a lot of time, but it's even worse if you have to wait for wood to reappear just so you can spend that gold.

Servants being made a little useful would be great, to replace sigils if you give them gold. Or maybe they use gold in your bankaccount, like mining. Gardener needs to be a category too, though getting customisable House Guards would be great and help a lot too.

Also, as someone who's broken into houses before, I really wouldn't be sad to see it made impossible if it meant housing would get used more. It really is a minimal risk with a potentially great reward, for a five minute effort of checking WHO, blackwinding/phasing into a city and prisming. That said, anti-prism does make it very hard to get in, so that's often enough to deter most. 

Dupre

Reyson said:

How is anyone getting into a house with an eyed entrance that's mono'd, anti-telepathy and anti-prism unless someone helps them out?

Burrowers can break into any house that has a diggable environment in the first room

Reyson

That is super duper niche, how often do people put burrowable environments on their entrance rooms?

[Deleted User]

This can probably be filed under "Additional suggestions."

My biggest problem with Housing as-is is that the subdivisions are ubiquitous. They lack any type of city flavour. For example, will you see much difference if you were to ENTER SUBDIVISION in Eleusis or Mhaldor? Targossas or Ashtan? Nope. The same greenery, roadways, etc. 

In addition to the changes suggested, I'd therefore add-on that it would be pretty cool if city subdivisions reflected each city's flavour in terms of available plot types with the existing ones rolling over into whatever the new equivalencies might be. 

Separately I'd note that harbours are by definition a place where ships go to find shelter and protection from rough water, weather, etc. But not necessarily other people. I'd be okay with ships becoming susceptible to various forms of boarding if one lingered there, but I'm also not someone who often idles on her vessel, so I understand if this is not a popular option to many. 

Totally off topic now, but what I think would be incredibly neat (here comes the Aegean in me IRL) is the capacity for factions to siege harbours, creating new sea combat scenarios. It would give a reason for building city naval prowess beyond sea monsters, trades, and the occasional organized naval combat or race. 

Sorry to deface the thread on housing with navy stuff. Some cool ideas and conversation here all-around! 

Tiamat

Penwize said:

I've seen a few pretty valid concerns here, and I actually think there's a solution to most of the problems presented.


Soul Infiltration: I have less of a problem with this one, but the theft concern is valid.  The guards mentioned above, plus locked strongboxes/chests.  You should be able to get a lock made at your city's locksmith for a reasonable gold sum, to attach to a strongbox/chest in a housing room you own.  Most other decoration-type things you place in rooms can already be protected from theft in one way or another, and mayan crown display cases cover situations where they can't be I think.  Maybe more varieties of display cases, like single-item pedestals or mounting racks to show the item's dropped appearance too?

As Penwize said, there IS an ITEM that keeps your items safe in your house, I personally have 13 of them so far (SHOP OF WONDERS DISPLAYCASE) get one and quit crying people, they are 2 Mayan Crowns. 

Tiamat

Jurixe said:

Yes, we're agreeing on that at this point - a no prism, permanent monolith and no travel upgrade should stop most infiltration, but it's still technically possible to infiltrate via following someone in if they're careless - which given how easy eye sigils are to get and use, I don't see the need to change. For those of you thinking infiltration is impossible this way, trust me, you underestimate human laziness.

Why should human laziness be the infiltrators problem? For example, I was able to get some rare Targ coin from the third party, there was a delay on it being able to be nondecay. The response I got from some of the people in Targ was, 'good, that item shouldn't get out.' I would like to think, it ruins all sorts of conflict and just the nature of an open and free world. It's not like we still have old-school theft anymore. 

Melodie

Why should unavoidable dormancy be a reward for thieves?

Shirszae

Tiamat said:

Jurixe said:

Yes, we're agreeing on that at this point - a no prism, permanent monolith and no travel upgrade should stop most infiltration, but it's still technically possible to infiltrate via following someone in if they're careless - which given how easy eye sigils are to get and use, I don't see the need to change. For those of you thinking infiltration is impossible this way, trust me, you underestimate human laziness.

Why should human laziness be the infiltrators problem? For example, I was able to get some rare Targ coin from the third party, there was a delay on it being able to be nondecay. The response I got from some of the people in Targ was, 'good, that item shouldn't get out.' I would like to think, it ruins all sorts of conflict and just the nature of an open and free world. It's not like we still have old-school theft anymore. 

There's a difference between being an ass and being an infiltrator, though. People like you don't  engage others in any way whatsoever. You just take advantage of people being dormant to rob whatever's not nailed down. Thats nothing but being a griefer.

Tiamat

Shirszae said:

Tiamat said:

Jurixe said:

Yes, we're agreeing on that at this point - a no prism, permanent monolith and no travel upgrade should stop most infiltration, but it's still technically possible to infiltrate via following someone in if they're careless - which given how easy eye sigils are to get and use, I don't see the need to change. For those of you thinking infiltration is impossible this way, trust me, you underestimate human laziness.

Why should human laziness be the infiltrators problem? For example, I was able to get some rare Targ coin from the third party, there was a delay on it being able to be nondecay. The response I got from some of the people in Targ was, 'good, that item shouldn't get out.' I would like to think, it ruins all sorts of conflict and just the nature of an open and free world. It's not like we still have old-school theft anymore. 

There's a difference between being an ass and being an infiltrator, though. People like you don't  engage others in any way whatsoever. You just take advantage of people being dormant to rob whatever's not nailed down. Thats nothing but being a griefer.

There are plenty of times where I have followed people into their houses. I still have a bunch of original Targ'ish prayer scrolls and order journals from such a feat. It is not fair to say otherwise, as I do all types of things, one can not just focus on way I infiltrate as its the less popular way. Its like calling me a jerk because someone forgot to put and eye in their shop, or left the door open (which has happened a few times). I hate the default answer of person did this one way, therefore, they do it every time. (They have plenty of fixes for past issues now, and if all else fails, buy a ship. *sarcasm*)  I have had infiltrators in my house that is out of subs, guess what.... I nailed it all down, well most of it. I had to pay the piper, and I am still doing renovations.  

Jurixe

Tiamat said:

Jurixe

Yes, we're agreeing on that at this point - a no prism, permanent monolith and no travel upgrade should stop most infiltration, but it's still technically possible to infiltrate via following someone in if they're careless - which given how easy eye sigils are to get and use, I don't see the need to change. For those of you thinking infiltration is impossible this way, trust me, you underestimate human laziness.

Why should human laziness be the infiltrators problem? For example, I was able to get some rare Targ coin from the third party, there was a delay on it being able to be nondecay. The response I got from some of the people in Targ was, 'good, that item shouldn't get out.' I would like to think, it ruins all sorts of conflict and just the nature of an open and free world. It's not like we still have old-school theft anymore. 

There is a difference between avoidable laziness (throwing an eye before entering somewhere) and unavoidable circumstances (dormancy and decay). There is nothing the players of the second category can do against you. 

I also disagree with the suggestion that display cases fulfil the function of artefact chests. They are meant to display items, but things like minerals just make no sense and storage is not the primary function of the case. The opposite argument could be made: since this already exists, why not make a lockable chest?

Tiamat

Jurixe said:

There is a difference between avoidable laziness (throwing an eye before entering somewhere) and unavoidable circumstances (dormancy and decay). There is nothing the players of the second category can do against you. 

I also disagree with the suggestion that display cases fulfil the function of artefact chests. They are meant to display items, but things like minerals just make no sense and storage is not the primary function of the case. The opposite argument could be made: since this already exists, why not make a lockable chest?

There is an artifact, you attach it to a eye, set it down and go dormant, it costs 250cr. 

I know people who use a display case as a mineral storage, seems like the are inventive to me. I would like to see some sort of arti-chest but  I would hope its along the lines of the price of the already made items that exist. So in a way, housing theft is completely avoidable as we speak, people just choose not to do so. 

Tiamat

In OTHER things I was thinking about, it would be nice if the REACTIONS from the housing servants list where expanded. It would be nice to see them greet individual players if need be, or the ALL BUT option. 

example: (person) walks in... Reaction

All but person from (city).... Reaction

I am sure there are more examples but these are just a few I thought about off the top of my head.

An area-wide noprism addon would probably save a lot of people a lot of headache. 

Reyson

Display cases have an inorganic feel to them. Putting a trophy in a case, fine. But whay about, say, a rug? Or a flower pot?

Some things you wouldn't stuff in a display case, and there should be an option to keep them safe while displaying them in a reasonable way.

Melodie

There's also no way to interact with items within a display case, which defeats the purpose of certain types of items.

Tiamat

there is always email:customisations@achaea.com 

ask for resetting in said room. 

Look, I agree with a lot of the issues and complaints, I just want to point out that there ARE fixes that many people have taken, like myself, to make sure things you want to keep, stay kept. 

I for one think the Mannequin item is just kind of lame sounding and has limited functions, and I wish there were alternatives.  

Melodie

Yeah because spending a thousand credits or more to spread some things around the house is completely and utterly reasonable.

Tiamat

Melodie said:

Yeah because spending a thousand credits or more to spread some things around the house is completely and utterly reasonable.

So what should the solution be? Just make any item in a house not be able to be picked up? Make it so only items that can be pick pocketed be able to be picked up in a house? I don't know, maybe I am old school, but I dont want Achaea to turn into a little kindergarten, where those who feel 'hurt'ed by a meanyhead' get all their things back. Especially when it was so so so so much worse in years past. 

Accipiter

So, is removing subdivisions and having housing enterable the same way ships are in harbour a reasonable compromise? That way no more dormancy-theft but you could still prism ect, and we get the benefit of no more subdivisions.

Kayeil

Tiamat said:

Jurixe said:

There is a difference between avoidable laziness (throwing an eye before entering somewhere) and unavoidable circumstances (dormancy and decay). There is nothing the players of the second category can do against you. 

I also disagree with the suggestion that display cases fulfil the function of artefact chests. They are meant to display items, but things like minerals just make no sense and storage is not the primary function of the case. The opposite argument could be made: since this already exists, why not make a lockable chest?

There is an artifact, you attach it to a eye, set it down and go dormant, it costs 250cr. 

I know people who use a display case as a mineral storage, seems like the are inventive to me. I would like to see some sort of arti-chest but  I would hope its along the lines of the price of the already made items that exist. So in a way, housing theft is completely avoidable as we speak, people just choose not to do so. 

What am I missing here?

Tiamat

Kayeil said:

Tiamat said:

Jurixe said:

There is a difference between avoidable laziness (throwing an eye before entering somewhere) and unavoidable circumstances (dormancy and decay). There is nothing the players of the second category can do against you. 

I also disagree with the suggestion that display cases fulfil the function of artefact chests. They are meant to display items, but things like minerals just make no sense and storage is not the primary function of the case. The opposite argument could be made: since this already exists, why not make a lockable chest?

There is an artifact, you attach it to a eye, set it down and go dormant, it costs 250cr. 

I know people who use a display case as a mineral storage, seems like the are inventive to me. I would like to see some sort of arti-chest but  I would hope its along the lines of the price of the already made items that exist. So in a way, housing theft is completely avoidable as we speak, people just choose not to do so. 

What am I missing here?

Hrm, I was under the impression that the 'incandescent sigil' made the sigil non-decay. I guess I was misinformed. I guess the solution to everyone's problem would be the level 2 incandescent sigil where it makes other sigils non-decay for 1000 credits. 

Accipiter

Couldn't you just customise an eye sigil then put one of them on it?