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Fixing Player Housing

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  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    With trans fitness, natural endurance regen well outpaces phase's endurance drain. Phase drains 200 every minute, with trans fitness you regen 300 per minute.
    KoganTorinnTelendrieth
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2018
    Jurixe said:
    1. While not everyone always uses ships to avoid consequences, the fact that it is even an option is unfair to those who work to create conflict in this game, which is getting more and more difficult by the day.
    Not really weighing in, because this is an issue I don't think people will ever agree upon. But the quoted text above literally made me choke on my drink in laughter. If you think conflict is currently stifled and struggling, please turn on deathsight and tune into public news. While I don't particularly enjoy the bravado posts, there has been a pretty noticeable increase in skirmishes and raids as of late. The nice thing about more recent skirmishes as well, is that they seem to be varied between who is brought (except ashtan apparently) and which cities are fighting, so everyone is having a good time and learning more often than not. At least that's what I'm sensing from the forum banter. 

  • JurixeJurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,649 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jurixe said:
    1. While not everyone always uses ships to avoid consequences, the fact that it is even an option is unfair to those who work to create conflict in this game, which is getting more and more difficult by the day.
    Not really weighing in, because this is an issue I don't think people will ever agree upon. But the quoted text above literally made me choke on my drink in laughter. If you think conflict is currently stifled and struggling, please turn on deathsight and tune into public news. While I don't particularly enjoy the bravado posts, there has been a pretty noticeable increase in skirmishes and raids as of late. The nice thing about more recent skirmishes as well, is that they seem to be varied between who is brought (except ashtan apparently) and which cities are fighting, so everyone is having a good time and learning more often than not. At least that's what I'm sensing from the forum banter. 

    That's fair, but I think that's more grand conflict than personal consequences, which was more along the lines of what I was thinking about.

    Also, I'd like to hear more housing-related things/opinions please!
    If you like my stories, you can find them here:
    Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

  • PuxiPuxi Member Posts: 527 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Jurixe said:
    1. While not everyone always uses ships to avoid consequences, the fact that it is even an option is unfair to those who work to create conflict in this game, which is getting more and more difficult by the day.
    Not really weighing in, because this is an issue I don't think people will ever agree upon. But the quoted text above literally made me choke on my drink in laughter. If you think conflict is currently stifled and struggling, please turn on deathsight and tune into public news. While I don't particularly enjoy the bravado posts, there has been a pretty noticeable increase in skirmishes and raids as of late. The nice thing about more recent skirmishes as well, is that they seem to be varied between who is brought (except ashtan apparently) and which cities are fighting, so everyone is having a good time and learning more often than not. At least that's what I'm sensing from the forum banter. 

    But that conflict is taking a concerted effort across the cities by people that identify the game was getting stale without it. I understand many people choose Cyrene simply to avoid the conflict, but many of us play because of the conflict. I'm all for letting people enjoy the game the way they want to play it, but there has to be some kind of risk out in the "real" world that keeps you on your toes.
  • AustereAustere TennesseeMember Posts: 2,232 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2018
    Edit: wrong thread.  Not worth the hassle. 
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Puxi said:
    But that conflict is taking a concerted effort across the cities by people that identify the game was getting stale without it. I understand many people choose Cyrene simply to avoid the conflict, but many of us play because of the conflict. I'm all for letting people enjoy the game the way they want to play it, but there has to be some kind of risk out in the "real" world that keeps you on your toes.
    Conflict will take effort. Unless the game is specifically designed with queues and multiplayer formats, conflict will always take commitment to causes and a willing playerbase to put those in motion. Since we're playing a MUD and not "Call of Achaea: Rise of Ictinus" the general state of the world WILL be pretty stagnant unless the players wish to toss around the sand within the sandbox. And I'm all for players doing that, I just personally don't expect players to start throwing sand with me when they are over there sun tanning (super cool when it happens though). That is just the way Achaea goes, it is stagnant without player making waves. I always hate posting as Telendrieth in regards to conflict because people almost immediately jump to mentioning Cyrene. I don't oppose conflict, I don't mind when it happens, I've had some interesting experiences being robbed, and I've created some interesting experiences within most game systems aside from naval stuff. I've had interesting dialogue with people I've stolen from, assaulted their mines, killed, etc. The general pet peeve I have is when stuff is initiated by a side that is grossly one-sided. It's just not fun for me personally to partake in, and I feel scummy doing it. 

    As for ships and housing, as requested by Jurixe, 

    I do like how ships are now. There are times when I'm tending to my patients and just want to see what is going on in Achaea. The December events are a prime example of this. I was free for days on end, but the stuff kept happening on weekends. If I wanted to actually SEE what was going on, I had to just have Achaea open on a non-networked computer so I could at least feel like I was there. Ships give a decent ability to do just that, and that is not something the game will benefit from with it being removed. I do, however, believe that there should be a 10 minute cooldown between striking a player and then boarding a ship. If you go engaging other players, your avenues of safe haven should be limited to those that other players can work to circumvent. A small list would be running, cities, phasing, etc. All of these at least have SOME sort of counter play. 

    I do personally feel that houses are lackluster. Houses do give us the absolute freedom of creation that is unique to a portion of this game. You control the style, layout, and to some degree the location of everything. You can make a forest of phallic plants, secret labs, or if you're some weird eagle fetishist who wants their own island, you can do that too -cough- @Penwize -cough-. But all of that freedom came from a time in achaea that heavily favored situations where your character could lose massive amounts of wealth in a flash. I truly believe much of the discrepancy between houses and ships comes from the game philosophy at the time each was conceptualized. With all of that being said, I don't believe the sheer customization that houses offer is enough. I would really like to see more incentives to actually spend time within homes, but not at the cost of anything else. But ultimately the incentives needed to entice people to their abodes will be just as varied as non-siren descriptions in Achaea. Some people just want rested experience boosts, some want guards, some billiards, some want absolute security, while others hate everything I just mentioned. I don't honestly have a list of perks that would make houses interesting and desired by the masses. On Telendrieth, the only reason I purchased and constructed a house was in order to create the building that I used in his backstory. Aside from that, I spend very little time there (And no, I don't afk on my ship instead). 
    Cailin
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,481 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    That's a big motivator behind my suggestions.  I don't really believe in 100% safety, or 100% danger.  This game is all about plays and counterplays, and the ship/housing situation is sort of void of those right now on both ends of the spectrum.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The problem is anything but 100% safety (or functionally close without a ridiculous amount of overplanning, like currently trying to get someone sitting in an indoors guard stack as is without radiance), is useless. If you can be mind locked, it's unsafe and it's shit, who's gonna sit there spamming touch bell every 30s to avoid all the shit telepathy can do (beyond even spying)?
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,481 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Besides spying, telepathy really isn't going to do anything more than harass you if you're in a room with guards, a monolith and anti-prism.  That, coupled with the fact that unjustified attacks on someone are already against the rules, makes me pretty skeptical it'd actually be a problem in any way.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Also, another thing: even if you removed ship safety, then you have to deal with all the temples that are impossible to get into if you're not a member.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2018
    Penwize said:
    Besides spying, telepathy really isn't going to do anything more than harass you if you're in a room with guards, a monolith and anti-prism.  That, coupled with the fact that unjustified attacks on someone are already against the rules, makes me pretty skeptical it'd actually be a problem in any way.
    Why would anyone put up with even minor harrassment, though? And the guards part is a big if (not to mention it'd need to be illegal to guard bash you or something or else people will just 'raid' your house lol).
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2018
    Since theft seems to be the hugest problem, let's consider adding powers to the housing system to solve it?

    For instance: a room upgrade that amounts to a lockable container you get the key to or is otherwise only operable by a single, designated person, that happens to be non-decay.

    Housing guards I'm on the fence about. I don't like the thought of someone sitting in a non-prism room -and- being able to cfh after doing something obnoxious.

    Homereturn'd be good. I'd like a system to go to home from subs entrance, tbh. People don't have to look for their ship in a harbor, why should others have to look for their house in subs? Subs map still works, of course, just a quick option for people (this can be made a room upgrade for entrance room, I think!).

    Synaptic locks are a nuisance, to be sure, and I think Penwize's solution is a reasonable one. It's my experience that anti-prism goes a long way towards keeping people out of a place. Given that a couple triggers and selfishness, plus a container a thief can't open would make you pretty safe against thievery, what'd the objection be to making all housing (ship and non-ship) have even footing in terms of security? You ostensibly have the advantage in that you can literally move your ship out of an area of someone is spamming prism or whatever (just cast off and move one room, then return when it seems the offender has gone away).

    Clan-owned housing sounds pretty amazing, with an investible clan power that allows setting perms, and anothert allowing building/room upgrading. 

    ETA: I used to pvp a lot and no one ever came to my house to randomly try and telepathy me to death out of the blue. What've you all been doing to deserve that kind of commitment o_O?
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nazihk said:
    Kiet said:
    Achaea is the game it is because it's not the wild west. If you want the wild west, there's eve online or ultima online private servers or whatever else.

    Imperian was the wild west for many years.

    That's why Imperian has 12 players.
    Yeah, people advocating for wild west never seem to consider there was an achaea-like wild west game there for them to try all this time.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 4,953 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2018
    Reyson said:

    ETA: I used to pvp a lot and no one ever came to my house to randomly try and telepathy me to death out of the blue. What've you all been doing to deserve that kind of commitment o_O?
    >be me
    >own an OOS plot/house
    >be cyrenian and have random mhaldorians bugging you for fun
    >fk people up in yer wedding and go mhaldorian
    >have fun with various people trying to break into your house for pretty much forever, no matter what org you're in

    (That's not to say some people didn't have reason, like bounties. But other people... good lord.)
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    TaryiusYsela
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ok, yeah, you should get a ship. 
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 4,953 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have one. I sit on it. But I'd like to sit in my house instead, okay. :(
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
  • JurixeJurixe Where you least expect itMember Posts: 1,649 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2018
    Reyson said:

    Housing guards I'm on the fence about. I don't like the thought of someone sitting in a non-prism room -and- being able to cfh after doing something obnoxious.

    Homereturn'd be good. I'd like a system to go to home from subs entrance, tbh.
    Mobile posting is dumb so I'm just going to answer in order.

    1. This is already the case on ships. There's not much difference to that or sitting in a city room on guards. I don't necessarily want to make killing people in their homes easier, just technically possible. Even with the guards, you can still radiance them etc. If you buy the security, why shouldn't you enjoy it? I anticipate it to be a heavy investment. If it's made a different area then this is of course moot.

    2. There is already an artefact that does this, as mentioned elsewhere. I just don't think it adequately addresses the inconvenience - houses currently feel very much disconnected from the city and it's far easier and safer to just sit in a city room with guards. To change that, homes need to be as easily accessible as city rooms and that won't be the case even with the subdivision token.

    The value of Homereturn is that it reinforces the idea of your house as your refuge and makes going 'home' convenient.
    If you like my stories, you can find them here:
    Stories by Jurixe and Stories by Jurixe 2 

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,102 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The suggestion of bell tattoos just telling you that someone with a synpatic lock has you locked is shit, to be frank. Specially in regards to ship and the reason for why people use ships to do things in the first place. What are you going to do with that information? Shove it on your rear? There's really no retaliation possible against someone who has you locked because you don't even know who it is in the first place while they are effectively preventing you from doing shit unless you don't care about people spying on you while you do shit. And lets be frank, the people who don't care a wild minority.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Telendrieth
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2018
    Jurixe said:
    Reyson said:

    Housing guards I'm on the fence about. I don't like the thought of someone sitting in a non-prism room -and- being able to cfh after doing something obnoxious.

    Homereturn'd be good. I'd like a system to go to home from subs entrance, tbh.
    Mobile posting is dumb so I'm just going to answer in order.

    1. This is already the case on ships. There's not much difference to that or sitting in a city room on guards. I don't necessarily want to make killing people in their homes easier, just technically possible. Even with the guards, you can still radiance them etc. If you buy the security, why shouldn't you enjoy it? I anticipate it to be a heavy investment. If it's made a different area then this is of course moot.

    2. There is already an artefact that does this, as mentioned elsewhere. I just don't think it adequately addresses the inconvenience - houses currently feel very much disconnected from the city and it's far easier and safer to just sit in a city room with guards. To change that, homes need to be as easily accessible as city rooms and that won't be the case even with the subdivision token.

    The value of Homereturn is that it reinforces the idea of your house as your refuge and makes going 'home' convenient.
    In regards to guards, you're not wrong, I just don't like it too much. Given the invulnerability you can enjoy in other places, it makes sense to make homes that invulnerable, as well, I just bristle at the notion of adding more places you can't be gotten to instead of working to cut that down, but I'm fully aware of this being a very sharp divide in opinions across the population, so I'm not going to dig in my heels about it. 

    To be sure, but I don't think it'd be out of line to have a way to reach your home straight from subs exit/entry point, given that there's already a channeled wait for entering subs to begin with! I don't know that that ought to be an artefact power, so much as QoL thing that could benefit everyone sinking money into the housing system. 

    ETA: Like I said, I like the idea of homereturn, the straight-to-my-house thing would be an addition to that, not a replacement.

    ETA2: Brainstorming with other people OOCly, I think a room upgrade that gives you a container that's immovable that only you can open would be good, as well. @Elisella suggested a furniture option that makes anything you place on a piece of furniture immovable except by the owner, so you can display stuff more organically than with a display case, without the risk of it all being swiped, which I think is a pretty good idea. 
    Laedha
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,481 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There's plenty of things you can do if you know a monk has you mind locked.  Get another monk to mind lock you and tell you if their lock gets stolen.  Fullsense or get a friend with a veil to fullsense, since veil doesn't hide you from fullsense/shadow preeminence anymore. 

    Plays and counterplays, that's the whole point!
    Austere
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Can also cast off, no? I'd assume getting out of the harbour counts as a change of area. 
    Penwize
  • AsmodronAsmodron Member Posts: 2,642 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Penwize said:
    There's plenty of things you can do if you know a monk has you mind locked.  Get another monk to mind lock you and tell you if their lock gets stolen.  Fullsense or get a friend with a veil to fullsense, since veil doesn't hide you from fullsense/shadow preeminence anymore. 

    Plays and counterplays, that's the whole point!
    I always hated the bolded part as the go-to excuse of "how to deal with telepathy", especially radiance. It suggests we all have these pocket monks we can tell to fix us up at any moment.

    You dont always have a monk around or aware. I sadly now know of several monks that enjoy mind-locking and just reading whatever that target is saying or doing. I'd rather not ask on CT every now and then "can someone check if anyone is being a perve", and would frankly prefer to just enjoy my quiet time in an isolated room.
  • ReysonReyson Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Anti-telepathy room upgrade! Let's sink some srs money into this bitch! 
  • LennLenn Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Houses are awful, absolutely awful!

    Just look at all the cities that will complain or charge you with crimes if you don't keep sigils up, even if you absolutely personally don't care if someone breaks in. That should be proof enough that houses are awful. They're so bad, they're a security risk to the city they're in, nevermind the people who live there. How ridiculous is that!

    I don't really see why you can't hire house guards. You can hire mining soldiers, why not house guards? They could be a more expensive servant type that has more HP and deals serious damage, perhaps with a limit on how many you can station per room, and a limit on roaming soldiers per house? Or they can just be a housing upgrade, but I like how servants can be customised and given personality. :)

    If house guards were like mining soldiers or city guards in that you have to pay for replacements, that'd get a bit annoying. People can try to grief you just by killing your denizens. I'm not fond of that, personally. At that point, I'd... rather just aggressively hire marks on anyone who steps into my home without permission. It'd be way cheaper and way more effective. o.o

    Also, although the admins may not be fully aware of this as they still don't allow customisable locks on chests, there is an item that all of you have been saying you want! Shop of wonder display cases can store plenty of stuff, and only the owner can retrieve things from them. Two mayan crowns to store 25 items isn't too bad, given that its security is really hard to beat. In comparison, a locked chest could be force unlocked for the would-be thief to take everything from it. It's just a bit silly that it's a display case instead of whatever container item you might want it to be, but that's my same complaint about drinking horns being exclusively horns. ><

    Finally, shouldn't privacy stop telepathy spies? It's an expensive upgrade, but it should stop them. I forget if it does or not, but if it doesn't, it should.
    ShirszaeTrillianaFengrich
  • TelendriethTelendrieth Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2018
    Reyson said:
    Anti-telepathy room upgrade! Let's sink some srs money into this bitch! 
    I'm going to assume this is being cute, but I did just wake up. If not, then I can't give this post enough of a flaming nope. We have a particularly "colorful" house in the subdivision that I'm pretty sure would buy this, and the issue that it causes is just how many times the people afk in it and get thieves/enemies in. Telepathy is one of my go-to's for stopping people who entrench themselves in a subdivision house, or are attempting to rob/murderate people in the city. Plus I'm having horrible as fuck twitches trying to think of how to deal with an anti-prism and anti-telepathy room when it is chosen as a staging ground for a group of raiders. Getting them out would be just... guh.
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 390 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If telepathy didn't reach into the subs, what other area-wide stuff is there left to worry about? Let them stay in the house as long as they want. Gone are the days of meteoring people at Fish st, who cares if there are enemies in the sub, once they prism out to the city real then you can kill them.
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